Can salvation be lost

[Truman]

I was going to post the song from VeggieTales but it looks like you already beat me to it lol






What? I would really like to see that. XD







Aww cute kitty,.. sort of looks like mine but she's a girl.




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Lol I am just guessing if it is his is the green one not the bright pink one.

She looks like Bella...we just had to put her down. Third kitty friend in a row that I lost...I'm going to stick with serenading the squirrels.
Our squirrels are big, there's a lot of them, and they are absolutely nuts! lol

 

[marks]

I think you have become increasingly open to considering other perspectives and interpretations, because I've seen it over the last year or so.

I think you've seen it more, but I've been like this, well, it's temperment, and the way my mind works. And a choice made a long time ago, to accept whatever it was He told me. But I feel I've become a better communicator, and maybe you are seeing that.

Much love!

 

[tsr]

A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created.

 

[April_Rose]

She looks like Bella...we just had to put her down. Third kitty friend in a row that I lost...I'm going to stick with serenading the squirrels.
Our squirrels are big, there's a lot of them, and they are absolutely nuts! lol

Aww,.. sorry to hear about your kitty. Lol about the squirrel part though.

 

[Truman]

 

[marks]

This is why I used the term "see yourself" in a certain way. But put this in your own terms. I think this is at the heart of the matter.

I do think my question is at the heart of the discussion, which is why I was hoping for a specific answer.

I didn't mean for you to do all that work! Great post just the same! But I should have posted more thoughtfully before.



This is where I'm going. It's not about seeing myself "a certain way". It's about seeing myself "the true way". Truth is what sets us free. The important part is not that I see myself. What is important is that I'm a new person, justified and free, and recreated sharing God's nature, His child.

My faith, my trusting in Jesus, this is my trust, knowing I'm forgiven, knowing I'll never be condemned, knowing I have no obligation to the flesh! none! There no sin I can't avoid, and in fact, each battle is already fought and won by Jesus on the cross. I can either appropriate that into my life, or not, as I've found, "be it to you according to your faith".

Any feeling of separateness from God instantly erases when I remind myself of these things. The sureness of His presence with me, His love for me, His sympathy for my weakness, these certainties maintain my openheartedness towards Him.

And not unsurprisingly, He causes me to walk in His Spirit, and His fruit is in my life. His life, His fruit, His effort, His glory.

For me, it's a matter of receiving my life as it comes to me, and everything is to be met with trust and love. In doing these, I am living the live He wants. Trust Jesus, love others.

If I see myself some other way, then I won't be living in this way.

Does this help?

Much love!

 

[April_Rose]

Now that's going to give me nightmares for the rest of my life.

 

[marks]

But I never change a position without very sound scriptural proof to the contrary.

I should hope not!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes it can be. I always recall the scripture of 'Not everyone who says to me Lord, lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven', something along those lines

Just saw this thread.

But you forget of those who say "Lord Lord" Jesus responds "I NEVER knew you". Not I knew you once but don't know you now.

OUr salvation is reserved in heaven for us and we are dead and our life is hidden with Christ in god. and when Christ who is our life appears, then we SHALL appear with him.

Salvation can never be lost.

 

[April_Rose]

That's a good point actually with the "I never knew you" part.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I didn't mean for you to do all that work! Great post just the same! But I should have posted more thoughtfully before.

LoL!

It was mostly for my sake. When these things stretch out over days you forget what was said if you're not careful. Then it's like, "Ok, what were we talking about again?..."

Memory loss: It's a terrible thing.

This is where I'm going. It's not about seeing myself "a certain way". It's about seeing myself "the true way". Truth is what sets us free. The important part is not that I see myself. What is important is that I'm a new person, justified and free, and recreated sharing God's nature, His child.

My faith, my trusting in Jesus, this is my trust, knowing I'm forgiven, knowing I'll never be condemned, knowing I have no obligation to the flesh! none! There no sin I can't avoid, and in fact, each battle is already fought and won by Jesus on the cross. I can either appropriate that into my life, or not, as I've found, "be it to you according to your faith".

Any feeling of separateness from God instantly erases when I remind myself of these things. The sureness of His presence with me, His love for me, His sympathy for my weakness, these certainties maintain my openheartedness towards Him.

And not unsurprisingly, He causes me to walk in His Spirit, and His fruit is in my life. His life, His fruit, His effort, His glory.

For me, it's a matter of receiving my life as it comes to me, and everything is to be met with trust and love. In doing these, I am living the live He wants. Trust Jesus, love others.

If I see myself some other way, then I won't be living in this way.

Does this help?

Ok, it does, and I see no problem with seeing oneself this way in Christ. I do the same thing. But now, here is why I was asking. To develop your position here of "seeing yourself the true way," according to scripture, I think you would need to use other passages, because the text of James on faith without works is dead deals less with seeing ourselves in the true way (or in any way really) and more simply to do with understanding that if we do not manifest works then we do not have real faith in what God is telling us, because if we did we would act on it.

I was asking because I had the actual passage in mind:

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:14-26)

Anyhow, I'm saying that while your theology may be sound, I wouldn't base it off the above passage. I think the one above is saying something different than what you are.

 

[Amazed@grace]

I can see that everything I explained to you in post #78 just went right over your head. Let's try it again:

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

*So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established.*

I can see that everything I explained to you in post #78 just went right over your head. Let's try it again:

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

*So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established.*

God bless you your resolve as you continue to try to reach one opposed to the good news of the eternal irrevocable gift of grace filled salvation.

And obstinately opposed as to think to make eternal salvation a mocking pejorative as they ridicule "OSAS'ers"

I hope your patience is rewarded. And if it be God's will, they hear their name called in time.

 

[Amazed@grace]

I hope you're right! I can't lose! I hope you don't have blood on your hands on Judgment Day.

I think you will concern yourself with how you answer for every word you've said against the covenant of eternal grace filled salvation, when you appear before God's great white throne. Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Truman]

I'd hardly played or sang for years...I'd wake up and the Lord would say, "Make a video of such and such a song!"
Instead of arguing with my Maker, I did.
"Why,?" I'd ask.
"When a crack addict has been up all night spending his rent money...again, the last thing he needs to see when he goes looking for help is people he knows will look down on him."
"If God can love this guy, perhaps I can be loved by Him, too!"

 

[Amazed@grace]

OSASers nearly always imply that anyone who doesn't swallow OSAS is not saved!

Purveyors of the antigospel always argue that security in our eternal salvation means we believe we can do anything, willfully sin continually, and remain saved.

That isn't in scripture at all. But anti-gospel types aren't concerned with truth. Or, for that matter simple logic.

Salvation, by definition.
One is not saved from anything, if they can choose to be unsaved from something.

What Christian, redeemed, renewed, would ever say: "Well heck, I think I'll recant my repentance and release my salvation, as if that were possible, because Hell bound is on my bucket list! Bring on the burn cream and asbestos footy pajamas! Me and horns boy are gonna paaaarrrrty for eternity!

The unapologetic agenda folks like you undertake is meritless. And unable to be sustained by the words and truth of God.

Salvation is eternal and irrevocable under God, whose will and foreknowledge guarantees he knows the names of his sheep, and calls us to him. And NO ONE, will take us from his hand.

You don't agree with that.

God assures us, you don't have to. God's truth surpasses unbelievers will to minister against his eternal truth.

 

[Truman]

I want to obey God because of my reflexive response to His love for me.
So I learned the way of the daily cross.
From an eternal perspective, I have no regrets.

 

[Amazed@grace]

A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created.

There it is! A brilliant post. Brilliant. May I use your words there in my signature? They concisely speak God's truth and may help unbelievers who happen into this forum to be freed from their confusion on the matter.

 

[Truman]

There it is! A brilliant post. Brilliant. May I use your words there in my signatute? They concisely speak God's truth and may help unbelievers who happen into this forum to be freed from their confusion on the matter.

Well-said!

 

[Amazed@grace]

The last face you see after thinking greasing the bird feeder poll with Crisco to stop squirrels hogging the seed was a good idea.

 

[marks]

Ok, it does, and I see no problem with seeing oneself this way in Christ. I do the same thing. But now, here is why I was asking. To develop your position here of "seeing yourself the true way," according to scripture, I think you would need to use other passages, because the text of James on faith without works is dead deals less with seeing ourselves in the true way (or in any way really) and more simply to do with understanding that if we do not manifest works then we do not have real faith in what God is telling us, because if we did we would act on it.

I was asking because I had the actual passage in mind:

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:14-26)

Anyhow, I'm saying that while your theology may be sound, I wouldn't base it off the above passage. I think the one above is saying something different than what you are.

I feel that I was more describing the faith from which works come.

In the above passage, what part do you see saying something different from what I'm saying?

Much love!