I'm thankful that I do not need the false belief in OSAS to be true. I do not need to cling to that false belief to justify my life decisions.
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I think you're completely misunderstanding Romans 8, but believe what you want. There are Christians who are weak in the faith and always struggle with conscience, and there are the mature who just never look back and stand confident knowing that salvation is not based upon their work, but God's.You can spin it all you want - the New Testament is incredibly clear that OSAS.
To whit:
Romans 8 - refutes OSAS completely.
Romans 8:1- starts off with the fact that there’s no condemnation for those IN Christ Jesus.
Verse 4 makes clear that having no condemnation and being IN Christ, is conditional on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit.
The fact that having no condemnation in verse 1 is dependent on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit in verse 4, is so evident that the KJV translators added verse 4 to the end of verse 1, to make the passage more understandable:
Rom 8:1- There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8- then goes on to explain the consequences of deathif we let our flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:
Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.
Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
In Galatians 5, Paul lists the works of the flesh, which DEFINES what is meant in Romans 8- about walking after the flesh, instead of after the spirit, and warns that committing those sins of the flesh will keep believers out of heaven:
Gal 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 - For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 - But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 - Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 - Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told you in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 8- explains the consequences of death if we let the flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:
Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.
Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:6, above, is talking about spiritual death - not physical death - as proven by the Galatians 5 text just given, and confirmed by the story of the prodigal son, who died spiritually while he was out in the world sinning:
In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, the son represents believers.
He’s already a son when the story starts.
He leaves the father to live in sin
When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN, he WAS LOST, but now IS FOUND.
Luke 15:32- It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother *was dead*, and is *alive again*; and *was lost*, and *is found*.
He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.
How then was he dead?
He was dead in his sins.
Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened,who WERE DEAD in *trespasses and sins*
Thus the son was alive, left his Father to live a sinful life, became DEAD in his sins, then returned in repentance, and became alive AGAIN.
Therefore Romans 8- instead of proving unconditional eternal security, has a warning to the brethren not to live carnally, after the flesh, or they will die spiritually, as the prodigal Son did.
And Verse 8:7 of Romans warns us that believers having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.
So does James:
James 4:4- Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.
The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.
The fact is that the correct exegesis of Romans 8- refutes, and does not teach, OSAS!
Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
This is just some of the scripture that refutes OSAS.
Ok, now read the verse again and tell me exactly what its saying about salvation (nothing really).1 Timothy 4:1 cannot be twisted. You can depart from the faith.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Peter 2 is a chapter not a verse. Are you confessing your hidden side? Forgive me for not valuing the testimony of "believers " with such great conviction that they hide behind false identity.Thank you for giving me your opinion but as you imply yourself, opinions are worthless and prove nothing as your opinion here proves nothing.
2 Peter 2 is not my opinion but Biblical truth.
If you went to a seminary, You should request a refund.You can spin it all you want - the New Testament is incredibly clear that OSAS.
To whit:
Romans 8 - refutes OSAS completely.
Romans 8:1- starts off with the fact that there’s no condemnation for those IN Christ Jesus.
Verse 4 makes clear that having no condemnation and being IN Christ, is conditional on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit.
The fact that having no condemnation in verse 1 is dependent on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit in verse 4, is so evident that the KJV translators added verse 4 to the end of verse 1, to make the passage more understandable:
Rom 8:1- There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8- then goes on to explain the consequences of deathif we let our flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:
Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.
Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
In Galatians 5, Paul lists the works of the flesh, which DEFINES what is meant in Romans 8- about walking after the flesh, instead of after the spirit, and warns that committing those sins of the flesh will keep believers out of heaven:
Gal 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 - For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 - But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 - Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 - Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told you in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 8- explains the consequences of death if we let the flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:
Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.
Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:6, above, is talking about spiritual death - not physical death - as proven by the Galatians 5 text just given, and confirmed by the story of the prodigal son, who died spiritually while he was out in the world sinning:
In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, the son represents believers.
He’s already a son when the story starts.
He leaves the father to live in sin
When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN, he WAS LOST, but now IS FOUND.
Luke 15:32- It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother *was dead*, and is *alive again*; and *was lost*, and *is found*.
He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.
How then was he dead?
He was dead in his sins.
Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened,who WERE DEAD in *trespasses and sins*
Thus the son was alive, left his Father to live a sinful life, became DEAD in his sins, then returned in repentance, and became alive AGAIN.
Therefore Romans 8- instead of proving unconditional eternal security, has a warning to the brethren not to live carnally, after the flesh, or they will die spiritually, as the prodigal Son did.
And Verse 8:7 of Romans warns us that believers having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.
So does James:
James 4:4- Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.
The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.
The fact is that the correct exegesis of Romans 8- refutes, and does not teach, OSAS!
Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
This is just some of the scripture that refutes OSAS.
Of course you don't need to believe in OSAS. If you have His Spirit, you're saved reguardless of how simple or carnal your understanding is. So yes, thank God for His salvation. You haven't a snowflakes chance in hell of preserving your own.I'm thankful that I do not need the false belief in OSAS to be true. I do not need to cling to that false belief to justify my life decisions.
The cross, the blood, God's saving grace provided a pathway to salvation for those who thru faith believed. Jesus didn't drag you or anyone else into salvation. The cross didn't give you a ticket to Heaven without your faith. OSAS believers always try to correlate his saving grace with the reason you cannot possibly fall from grace even when the scripture clearly tells us you can and some will. As a last resort, they always loop back to "never saved, to begin with". You deny apostasy. Millions are saved because someone told them they were. Someone like you. Check the box and you're good for life no matter what condition your heart is in. No matter if you reject the Spirit and surrender to the flesh. No matter if you sin willfully. A person can now commit all the sins Paul warns us about but because you were saved when you were 14 you have no worries. You can live like those who do not know Jesus. A willful non-repentant sinner will never make it to Heaven no matter who much hyper-grace you cling to.Of course you don't need to believe in OSAS. If you have His Spirit, you're saved reguardless of how simple or carnal your understanding is. So yes, thank God for His salvation. You haven't a snowflakes chance in hell of preserving your own.
Yes, the entire chapter of 2 Peter 2 refutes OSAS. The chapter would make no sense at all if OSAS were true.2 Peter 2 is a chapter not a verse. Are you confessing your hidden side? Forgive me for not valuing the testimony of "believers " with such great conviction that they hide behind false identity.
I'm sorry, but you're just making stuff up based upon some ridiculous label that some carnal minded person invented. OSAS is an artificial term and no one is saved by believing it. Hypergrace is another made up term made up by people who watch too much science fiction. If you have to divide God's grace up for the sake of your limited understanding, then sound theologians recognize "common grace" and "saving grace ". Common grace is the grace of God extended to all humanity. Saving Grace is the grace extended to the elect. Salvation is by God's election. Salvation is by God's will. No one seeks God. No one chooses God. However, the kiddies often think that they did because they don't know the scriptures or don't believe the plain interpretation of scripture and select which verses that they're ready to believe. The doctrine of God's election is one of the oldest in the church. I'm not going to teach it to you, but I'll provide some of the proof texts so you can look at them in context, consider what they say and decide if you believe God or not.The cross, the blood, God's saving grace provided a pathway to salvation for those who thru faith believed. Jesus didn't drag you or anyone else into salvation. The cross didn't give you a ticket to Heaven without your faith. OSAS believers always try to correlate his saving grace with the reason you cannot possibly fall from grace even when the scripture clearly tells us you can and some will. As a last resort, they always loop back to "never saved, to begin with". You deny apostasy. Millions are saved because someone told them they were. Someone like you. Check the box and you're good for life no matter what condition your heart is in. No matter if you reject the Spirit and surrender to the flesh. No matter if you sin willfully. A person can now commit all the sins Paul warns us about but because you were saved when you were 14 you have no worries. You can live like those who do not know Jesus. A willful non-repentant sinner will never make it to Heaven no matter who much hyper-grace you cling to.
Actually the passage says if they were of us, they would not have gone out. So that's a maxim.If those whom John was speaking about were never saved, then the most the verse proves is a never saved person was never saved, it still does not prove a Christian cannot fall away. 2 Peter 2 provides proof a Christian can fall away.
I do not see where the idea of unconditional salvation is found in 2 Peter 3:9.
So if they were NEVER of us then the most the verse proves is one who was never saved was never saved. Yet the verse still does not prove that it is impossible for one who was saved to fall away.Actually the passage says if they were of us, they would not have gone out. So that's a maxim.
Much love!
Read it again.So if they were NEVER of us then the most the verse proves is one who was never saved was never saved. Yet the verse still does not prove that it is impossible for one who was saved to fall away.
You didn't say "mother may I".One commentator noted John did not use the word "never" in the verse.
We are sealed “for” the day of redemption. Any Greek Lexicon will prove it, and any reputable English version will too!
Ephesians 1:14 ..until the redemption of the purchased possession.. Ephesians 4:30 - ..sealed unto/for the day of redemption
No. God's supernatural sealing with the Holy Spirit cannot be reversed or broken, since the seal is "until the day of redemption" (the Resurrection/Rapture).
What it does prove, however, is God's intent for that seal, "unto the day of redemption", and you will not break that.But this does not prove beyond doubt that the seal can never be broken.
This passage strongly suggests that they could be deceived with empty words, and in the process get fooled into thinking that one could engage in fornication, sexual uncleanness and idolatry and still have an inheritance with God. And if they could get deceived into thinking these things, and in turn start engaging in them, doesn't that suggest that the seal of the Holy Spirit could be broken? How does give himself over to things like a life of fornication and idolatry and the Holy Spirit still remain with Him?
Amen! And, puny man "can NEVER break" God's Seal!What it does prove, however, is God's intent for that seal, "unto the day of redemption", and you will not break that.
Amen!Amen! And, puny man "can NEVER break" God's Seal!
Humble men Conform To ALL Of "What God Has Said!!" Amen?
What it does prove, however, is God's intent for that seal, "unto the day of redemption", and you will not break that.
"And such were some of you", Paul writes, but then he continues, "flee fornication", and, "Honor God with your bodies". The identification is no longer the fornicator, but the admonition is to flee fornication.
Agreed.
This isn't a passage that contains those words, however, which is why you have to be careful to rightly divide and why I quoted the passage out. All that is stated here is Paul addressing them - the Ephesians - and warning them not to be deceived. If there was no danger for the Ephesians themselves, the words would not come in the form of a warning, but they do.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you... For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Now if he were simply saying here, "Don't do anything that will make Christianity look like it endorses sin," you could interpret it that way. But the next sentence would make no sense, because this is not what he says. He doesn't give as his reason for telling them this that others might get the wrong impression; he gives as his reason that he does not want them to be deceived:
5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
The key fact is identity, not behavior. Your behavior condemns you if you are born from Adam. If you are born from God, there now no condemnation.