Can the Soul Die?

[Curtis]

God told Moses to speak to the rock, and Moses got angry with the children of Israel and smote it. He was not told to smite the rock the 2nd time. It was done in the presence of Israel, and that is why God said what he said. It was an open disobedience by Moses. he didn't need to be impatient and strike it. He need only speak to it.

Water came from the as a symbol of the Rock which gives us living water.


"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

Absolutely. David Guzik explains further:

Moses defaced a beautiful picture of Jesus’ redemptive work through the rock which provided water in the wilderness. The New Testament makes it clear this water-providing, life-giving rock was a picture of Jesus (1Co 10:4).

Jesus, being struck once, provided life for all who would drink of Him (Joh 7:37). But it was unnecessary - and unrighteous - that Jesus would be struck again, much less again twice, because the Son of God needed only to suffer once (Heb 10:10-12).

Jesus can now be come to with words of faith (Rom 10:8-10), as Moses should have only used words of faith to bring life-giving water to the nation of Israel. Moses “ruined” this picture of the work of Jesus God intended.

Maranatha

 

[Aunty Jane]

1. Elijah was translated alive into the sky. 2 Kings 2:11

Yep...the sky...not heaven. He was simply relocated because after this he wrote a letter to the King of Judah. (2 Chronicles 21:12-15)
Elijah died like all the other prophets of old.

Enoch is often confused with Elijah because he was "taken up" due to the fact that his life was threatened by opposers, so God gently terminated his life so that his enemies would not torture and kill him. (Genesis 5:24; Jude 14-15)

Hebrews 11:5
"By faith Eʹnoch was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him; for before he was transferred he received the witness that he had pleased God well."
He died knowing that God was pleased with him. If he had gone to heaven, God would have told him that in person.

2. Elijah will return during the tribulation before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Malachi 4:5–6

Luke 1:14-17....
Zechariah, father of John the Baptist was told.....
"You will have joy and great gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of Jehovah. But he must drink no wine or any alcoholic drink at all, and he will be filled with holy spirit even from before birth, 16 and he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to Jehovah their God. 17 Also, he will go ahead of him with E·liʹjah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, in order to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.”

Malachi 4:6 is quoted there.

3. Elijah will return as one of the two witnesses during the tribulation. Examine these similarities:

Very imaginative, but not correct. The one with Elijah's spirit has come and gone. John the Baptist filled that role. Since he died before Jesus, like King David, he did not go to heaven.

4. Time is the fourth dimension, and given that God made the 4 dimensions and has total control over time, and given the many times Jesus appears in the Old Testament as God in the form of a man long before His birth in the 1st century, God can transcend time with ease - thus its very likely that God removed Elijah from his timeline, and dropped him right into the tribulation timeline to be one of the two witnesses, with no intervening time from Elijah’s perspective.

What????

And no, John the Baptist was not Elijah.

The scriptures say he was the one who went "with Elijah's spirit and power". (Luke 1:17)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sour grapes. You're funny. Sure, I admit I could be wrong, but I've never even heard of those interpretations. It was dark outside when I was born, but it wasn't last night. Give me a break. "Another part of the land." There's certainly no more evidence of that eisegesis than that he was taken to Heaven, since you admit that all we have to go on is "šāmayim," the midpoint of wherever he was headed (according to you). Doubt can be cast on any argument. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. I'm afraid the big picture is eluding you.

Can you tell me what the big picture is then....? What do you think I am missing and not discerning spiritually? Please, I would like to know.

The fact that Elijah was still used by God, (even after he willingly gave over his appointment to Elisha as his successor) in another part of the country after his transfer in the whirlwind, shows that Elijah did not die, and was not taken to heaven.....how is that not evidence? How can a dead man write a letter from heaven? I ask you in all honesty....

2 Timothy | 3:7 who are always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Ecclesiastes | 12:12 And by these, my son, be further warned: There is no end to the making of many books, and much study wearies the body.

To whom does 2 Timothy 3:7 apply...only to me? Not you?

And what does Ecclesiastes actually say? What are these "books" that he speaks of? Is it the books of the Bible? I hardly think so.
Psalm 1:2...
"But his delight is in the law of Jehovah,
And he reads His law in an undertone day and night."

I'm glad you're having so much fun pretending you can manipulate my emotions. I'll bet that trick works with a lot of folks.

I am not manipulating anyone's emotions....if yours are being manipulated, then perhaps that is coming from inside yourself?
I am just telling an inconvenient truth that bothers some people who cannot refute what the Bible really says....as opposed to what they think it says....or want it to say. Why is a clarification disturbing? For truth seekers, it should be welcome....No?

No, you're not arrogant... much. At least you add a little humor to attempt to conceal it.

Was Jesus arrogant when he had a truth to tell? Did he tip-toe around people's emotions so as not to upset them? I find that Jesus told it like it was and whoever was offended....well that was their problem.

On one occasion, Jesus said something that was difficult to understand. In response, “many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: ‘This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?’” Those who spoke in this way clearly had a wrong attitude. And their wrong attitude led to their ceasing to listen to Jesus. The record says: “Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him.” Did all have a wrong attitude? No. The record continues: “Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: ‘You do not want to go also, do you?’ Simon Peter answered him: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to?’” In effect, Peter then answered his own question: “You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:60, 66-68)

Even though the apostles were also confused by what Jesus said, they waited for an explanation.
So, don't we have to ask ourselves which group of disciples we would have belonged to? The ones who jumped to immediate conclusions and left...or the ones who stuck around for more clarification?

When I was in Christendom, I stuck around for clarification that never came.....when I studied the Bible instead of church doctrine, I came away with vastly different conclusions to what I had been taught in church. The Bible explained what Christendom couldn't...because they don't have Christ directing them IMO. He promised to be "with" his disciples in this work. (Matthew 28:19-20) It was to be international.

If Jesus told his disciples to go out to the people and preach "the good news of the Kingdom", then why haven't Christendom's churches ever done that. And I don't mean missionaries sent overseas....I mean disciples sent to their neighbors, and professed fellow believers. (Matthew 110:11-15) Each "branch" of Christendom has something different to preach, so why can't they do what Jesus told them to do if they think the other fella has it all wrong? They can't even agree on what the Kingdom actually is, so how can they go to people and teach them something they don't know anything about?

I'm sorry if I came off as arrogant...but I'm an Aussie and we don't beat around the bush or tip-toe around people's feelings...we cut right to the chase and want to tell it like it is. We are often accused of being rude....but its just honesty, not dressed up as something else, just raw truth. Raw things sometimes need chewing.
But many in this world are so busy having the vapors over something they found offensive, that their ears are well and truly shut ...they heard nothing but the offense.

As you can see....I am not easily offended.

 

[Aunty Jane]

God told Moses to speak to the rock, and Moses got angry with the children of Israel and smote it. He was not told to smite the rock the 2nd time. It was done in the presence of Israel, and that is why God said what he said. It was an open disobedience by Moses. he didn't need to be impatient and strike it. He need only speak to it.

Water came from the as a symbol of the Rock which gives us living water.


"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

I guess its about the details of the account and what other scripture says about the incident....

Numbers 20:2-13...
"Now there was no water for the assembly, and they gathered together against Moses and Aaron. 3 The people were quarreling with Moses, saying: “If only we had died when our brothers died before Jehovah! 4 Why have you brought Jehovah’s congregation into this wilderness for us and our livestock to die here? 5 And why have you led us up out of Egypt to bring us into this evil place? It is no place for seed and figs and vines and pomegranates, and there is no water to drink.” 6 Then Moses and Aaron came from before the congregation to the entrance of the tent of meeting and fell with their faces to the ground, and Jehovah’s glory began to appear to them.

7 Then Jehovah said to Moses: 8 “Take the rod and call the assembly together, you and Aaron your brother, and speak to the crag before their eyes that it may give its water, and you will bring out water for them from the crag and give the assembly and their livestock something to drink.”


9 So Moses took the rod from before Jehovah, just as He had commanded him. 10 Then Moses and Aaron called the congregation together before the crag, and he said to them: “Hear, now, you rebels! Must we bring out water for you from this crag?” 11 With that Moses lifted his hand up and struck the crag twice with his rod, and much water began to pour out, and the assembly and their livestock began to drink.


12 Jehovah later said to Moses and Aaron: “Because you did not show faith in me and sanctify me before the eyes of the people of Israel, you will not bring this congregation into the land that I will give them.” 13 These are the waters of Merʹi·bah, where the Israelites quarreled with Jehovah, so that he was sanctified among them."

So, here is the story.....and it include elements of both our points. But how does other scripture clarify even more, what Moses' sin actually was?
Psalm 106:31-32...
"They provoked Him at the waters of Merʹi·bah,
And it went badly for Moses because of them.

33 They embittered his spirit,
And he spoke rashly with his lips."

Numbers 27:14...
"because when the assembly was quarreling with me in the wilderness of Zin, you rebelled against my order to sanctify me before them by means of the waters. These are the waters of Merʹi·bah at Kaʹdesh in the wilderness of Zin.”

So you can see that other Bible writers convey the sin as being what he said, failing to sanctify God, rather than what he did with the rod in his anger, which as you said was disobedience.

The lesson this teaches is that those in positions of responsibility also have greater accountability. After all that Moses had been through with this rebellious people for 40 years in the wilderness....he delivered his people, but he himself missed out on enjoying the fruitage of his labors.....not forever, but still it was a strong lesson for those who followed.

 

[Curtis]

Luke 1:14-17....
Zechariah, father of John the Baptist was told.....
"You will have joy and great gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of Jehovah. But he must drink no wine or any alcoholic drink at all, and he will be filled with holy spirit even from before birth, 16 and he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to Jehovah their God. 17 Also, he will go ahead of him with E·liʹjah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, in order to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.”

In the same spirit and power as Elijah. He’s not actually Elijah:

Joh 1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

Joh 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

Joh 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

Joh 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

Joh 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

I knew you’d say exactly that about John, and anticipated posting the above text.

BTW the SDA is wrong, the two witnesses are not the old and New Testament, that’s a ridiculous claim they make.

The old and New Testaments can’t destroy their enemies with fire coming out of their mouth, nor can they be killed, lie dead in the streets for 3.5 days, then be resurrected and taken up to heaven, nor can they wear sackcloth like the prophets did, and the the two witnesses only prophesy for 3.5 years.

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

It’s blatantly obvious the SDA is wrong about that, and wrong about the mark of the beast, too, for that matter - nor is the investigative judgment doctrine correct.

 

[Aunty Jane]

In the same spirit and power as Elijah. He’s not actually Elijah:

Yes...that is what the scripture says.....was I not clear about that? Elijah was dead but someone was going to come with spirit and power like Elijah.
That was John the Baptist....clearly identified.

BTW the SDA is wrong, the two witnesses are not the old and New Testament, that’s a ridiculous claim they make.

I have a different understanding about the two witnesses actually.

It’s blatantly obvious the SDA is wrong about that, and wrong about the mark of the beast, too, for that matter - nor is the investigative judgment doctrine correct.

I wouldn't know....you'd have to ask them....

 

[Curtis]

Yes...that is what the scripture says.....was I not clear about that? Elijah was dead but someone was going to come with spirit and power like Elijah.
That was John the Baptist....clearly identified.

Which has nothing to do with the actual Elijah being one of the two witnesses.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Which has nothing to do with the actual Elijah being one of the two witnesses.

In the vision of the transfiguration, three of Jesus’ apostles saw him in Kingdom glory, accompanied by Moses and Elijah. This foreshadowed Jesus’ sitting down on his glorious throne to accomplish a work prefigured by those two prophets. (Matthew 17:1-3) The two witnesses are now seen to perform signs reminiscent of those of Moses and Elijah.

John says of them: “And if anyone wants to harm them, fire issues forth from their mouths and devours their enemies; and if anyone should want to harm them, in this manner he must be killed. These have the authority to shut up heaven that no rain should fall during the days of their prophesying.” (Revelation 11:5-6)

When Moses’ authority was challenged in Israel, he uttered fiery words of judgment, and God destroyed the rebels, consuming 250 of them by literal fire from heaven. Was that from Moses or from God?...through Moses but not from Moses.

In the days of the kings of Israel, Elijah proclaimed a drought as an expression of God’s indignation on the Baal-worshipping Israelites. It lasted three and a half years. (1 Kings 17:1; 18:41-45; Luke 4:25; James 5:17) Again, was this from Elijah or from God?...performed through his prophet, but not from him.

Others can fulfill the roles of Moses and Elijah.....like Jesus and John the Baptist did.....God working through them.

 

[Curtis]

In the vision of the transfiguration, three of Jesus’ apostles saw him in Kingdom glory, accompanied by Moses and Elijah. This foreshadowed Jesus’ sitting down on his glorious throne to accomplish a work prefigured by those two prophets. (Matthew 17:1-3) The two witnesses are now seen to perform signs reminiscent of those of Moses and Elijah.

John says of them: “And if anyone wants to harm them, fire issues forth from their mouths and devours their enemies; and if anyone should want to harm them, in this manner he must be killed. These have the authority to shut up heaven that no rain should fall during the days of their prophesying.” (Revelation 11:5-6)

When Moses’ authority was challenged in Israel, he uttered fiery words of judgment, and God destroyed the rebels, consuming 250 of them by literal fire from heaven. Was that from Moses or from God?...through Moses but not from Moses.

In the days of the kings of Israel, Elijah proclaimed a drought as an expression of God’s indignation on the Baal-worshipping Israelites. It lasted three and a half years. (1 Kings 17:1; 18:41-45; Luke 4:25; James 5:17) Again, was this from Elijah or from God?...performed through his prophet, but not from him.

Others can fulfill the roles of Moses and Elijah.....like Jesus and John the Baptist did.....God working through them.

God didn’t zap only two people in all of history alive into the air just to give us an interesting Sunday school lesson, but for a purpose - and since we are told one of them, Elijah, will return before the great and terrible day of the lord, which is during the last 42 months of the tribulation, then it logically follows that Elijah is one of the two, and also logically follows that the only other person in all of history to also be caught up alive into the heavens, will be the other one.

Time will tell.

 

[Aunty Jane]

God didn’t zap only two people in all of history alive into the air just to give us an interesting Sunday school lesson, but for a purpose - and since we are told one of them, Elijah, will return before the great and terrible day of the lord, which is during the last 42 months of the tribulation, then it logically follows that Elijah is one of the two, and also logically follows that the only other person in all of history to also be caught up alive into the heavens, will be the other one.

Time will tell.

Yes time will tell......but according to scripture, the general resurrection of the dead will take place after Jesus has separated the sheep from the goats and has dispatched them.
The "first resurrection" is for those who have "died in Christ"....Elijah was not one of those. Hebrews 11 tells us that all the faithful ones of old died "without getting the fulfillment of the promises". So Elijah will not be raised until after Jesus assumes his Kingship over the earth. Only then will Revelation 21:2-4 be fulfilled.....they will be restored to life in paradise.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What? Elijah was taken to Heaven in a chariot of fire. Do you mean his body is here? Elisha didn't say anything about that. And where do you think Enoch is?

No one went to heaven before Jesus. (John 3:13) So no human who has ever lived or died, unless they are part of God’s “elect” (chosen only during and after Christ’s earthly ministry and taken into the new covenant on the night before his death) have qualified for heaven....not Elijah and not Enoch. Both are still “sleeping”, awaiting the resurrection to live the life we all should have had in the beginning, but which was stolen from us by three disobedient rebels.

Mankind was designed to live on this earth forever...that was God’s first purpose and that has never changed. What God starts, he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11; Revelation 21:2-4)

God already had a family in heaven who did not require training or suffering on earth in order to qualify to live there. We are created to be earth-bound mortals, given the prospect of living forever in paradise....not heaven. All we had to do to maintain that wonderful existence was to obey God’s command. Our first parents let us down, but our Heavenly Father designed a rescue mission in order for us to get back all that we lost.....all thanks to the willing sacrifice of his son, who redeemed us out of the sentence of sin and death imposed by our disobedient first parents.

 

[Aunty Jane]

2 kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. KJV
2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along, speaking as they walked, suddenly a fiery chariot and fiery horses+ made a separation between the two of them, and E·liʹjah ascended to the heavens* in the windstorm.+ NWT.

I believe that the dead sleep, too, but this is an exception--so was Enoch.

Not so....the "heavens" here is the "sky", not the "heavens" where God dwells. Elijah was transferred to a different location after which he wrote a letter to the King of Judah.....a dead man can't write letter.

Enoch had his life terminated so that his enemies would not have their way with him. Both are still 'sleeping'...there are no exceptions to John 3:13.

 

[Aunty Jane]

1 Cor 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept". Elijah never slept.

"No man has ascended in to heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man" (John 3:13)
Does the Bible contradict itself? This scripture is not ambiguous.
Elijah did not go to "heaven" (as in the place where God dwells) and neither did Enoch...being "taken up" into the "sky" is not going to heaven.

The Bible does not say what you wrote about Enoch either. If it does, I would like to see it.

“Enoch kept walking with the true God.” (Genesis 18:21-24) So he was alone as the only faithful man alive at the time.

As a prophet, he foretold God’s coming with His holy myriads to execute judgment against the ungodly. (Jude 14-15) Likely persecution was brought against him because of his prophesying....not an uncommon occurrence. So God did not permit those opposers to kill Enoch. Instead, God “took him” that is, cut short his life at the age of 365, (an age far below that of most of his contemporaries.) Enoch was “taken up so as not to see death,” which may mean that God put him into some kind of trance and then terminated Enoch’s life so that he did not experience the pangs of death.

As it says in Hebrews 11:5......"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for before he was taken up, he was attested to have been pleasing to God."

The expression "taken up" there is "metatithēmi" which means .....

"to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred

1. to go or pass over

1. to transfer
   
   
2. to change"

And the other expression there "God took him up" is "metathesis" and it means...

1. "transfer: from one place to another
   
   
2. to change"

So there is no mention of "heaven" for either of them. If God was going to give Enoch commendation, then he could have waited if he was going to take him to heaven and given it to him in person....

 

[farouk]

No man has ascended in to heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man" (John 3:13)
It appears to me that Jesus was the first fruits of them which slept.
1 Cor 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept".

Enoch and Elijah ascended into Heaven, actually God took them up.
"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."2 Kings 2:11
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Gen 5:24

Both of these instances show God taking them up. Jesus ascended on His own.

@Cassandra 1 Corinthians 15 is a glorious passage indeed; this is why it is so often read at the funerals of believers....

 

[farouk]

1 Cor 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept". Elijah never slept.
The Bible does not say what you wrote about Enoch either. If it does, I would like to see it.

@Cassandra The word to described what happened to Enoch is 'translated'....(Hebrews 11.5).

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, that's not exactly why. Moses was disobedient.

7 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink


9 And Moses took the rod from before the Lord, as he commanded him.


10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?


11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.


12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

Moses failed in holiness. You only get one shot in holiness. Like the man who tried to steady the ark with his own hand and was instantly struck dead. In righteousness, you can fail and stumble a lot and get back up. But in holiness you get one shot. I think that’s why the people admired and respected the apostles but declined to join them.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I was taught that the soul is not the physical body. It is the mind, the will, emotions, character, talents, personality, the invisble you. God breathed into our nostrils the breath of life. Life itself does not describe how we are made and of what substance.
This should dispel the idea that the soul is the body. We are created in the image of God. God is spirit, not a physical being. He became a physical being - but that is another topic. So if God is not physical, how are we made in His image. We have His invisible characteristcs: rational minds, wills, emotions, creative abilities and finally and the crucial part of us, the spirit. The spirit is dead when we are born. When we become a believer, God brings new life to our spirit, quickens it as some say and we are born again, new creatures in Christ. We have to have this spirit to be in Christ.
You have to have a functional spirit to communicate with God, otherwise it is like have a cell phone without a battery - "Hello, hello, is anybody there?" Of course God knows all, He can hear you, you just don't hear Him.

The soul and spirit are not exactly the same if they can be separated/divided.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb. 4;12
Animals have souls, but they do not have a spirit. When they die, their soul dies with them.
Obviously our package is so complex and integrated, we don't really understand it.
The soul uses the body and the spirit transforms the soul so thay while alive we can serve God and love our neighbor.
The mind uses the brain. You can't dissect a brain and see thoughts, ideas, talents or memories. Sci fi movies delve into such nonsence, but that is what it is, fiction.
When we are born again, our spirit becomes us, only a purified perfect version of us. Before we are saved, our fallen state really contains nothing redeemable. It had to be washed. We were filthy rags, now spotless (spiritually not our flesh). Our flesh never really becomes spotless - sins dwells there. But with practice we learn to say no to sin and temptation.
. So with this new nature we grow. The Holy Spirit lives inside us and helps us, guides us, teaches us, sanctifies us, edifies us, loves us, convicts us and begins to transform our whole person into Christ-like beings so that now we can express the fruit of the Spirit. Our character actions and purpose changes. We can do God's will.
If we die, our spirit goes directly to God. We have an identity, our spirit is the perfect version of ourselves, having mind will and emotions -- it is not some mindless energy that just flows back to God, or God's memory of us. We are living in eternity right now. We don't sleep. We will be conscious for the whole nine yards.
If an unbeliever dies, his soul goes to Hades and awaits judgment. That judgment will be the Lake of Fire (Hell). This is more of an event than an eternal location. 1 Peter 3:10 describes the first heaven and first earth destroyed in a fervant heat. At this time. Hades, Death, Satan and his demons and all those who did not have faith in Christ will be thrown into the Lake if Fire and be destroyed.

 

[Davy]

The 'soul' can... perish, even though the soul is made up of spirit.

That is what the "second death" is about per Revelation 20.

The 1st death is about what kind of death? Death of our flesh body, of course.

But the "second death" of Rev.20, that's about the casting into the future "lake of fire", and perishing.

Since those of the "resurrection of damnation" go into that future "lake of fire", then what PART of their being goes into that future "lake of fire"?? We can't say their flesh body, because Apostle Paul taught that the resurrection body type is a "spiritual body", and Lord Jesus said those of the resurrection are as the angels of God in Heaven.

And Jesus said don't fear those who can kill our flesh, but not our soul, but fear Him Who can destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire.

The type body with soul God can still destroy in the future lake of fire is made up of spirit, not flesh. Those of the "resurrection of damnation" that perish are raised to the "spiritual body" type also, but it's their souls that are still in a liable to perish condition, being without Christ Jesus.

 

[MatthewG]

Couldn’t the second death mean dying to their self in acknowledgement and turning to God walking through the Gates that leads into the Kingdom of God in the afterlife coming in from the darkness and the darkness in them being put to death and burnt out by the all consuming fire that is God?

 

[keithr]

Since those of the "resurrection of damnation" go into that future "lake of fire", then what PART of their being goes into that future "lake of fire"?? We can't say their flesh body, because Apostle Paul taught that the resurrection body type is a "spiritual body", and Lord Jesus said those of the resurrection are as the angels of God in Heaven.

Only Christians are promised a resurrection as a new creature in Christ, to be given the divine nature - a spiritual body. Everybody else will be resurrected as humans again.

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" that perish are raised to the "spiritual body" type also, but it's their souls that are still in a liable to perish condition, being without Christ Jesus.

You're relying on a poor translation. A better translation is the WEB:

John 5:29) and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.​

It is a resurrection of a trial (testing) and finally a judgement to assess worthiness for eternal life. This takes place during the Millennium - a period of 1,000 years.