Can you be pro-choice and still be a Christian?

[Truman]

Follow the lead of the Holy Spirit in every real case. Do not try to find black and white rules, even according to the Bible as you read or understand it, that will always apply.

In most cases abortion, I believe, will be wrong and the Holy Spirit, I believe, will lead us that way... but there may be reasons why God would lead us another way. Don't tempt God by insisting on finding absolute rules. God knows so follow Him!

Consider how He told Hosea, a man of God, to marry a prostitute. That surely seems to be in opposition to what Paul was inspired to write here:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

Don't question God. Obey Him even when you may not understand the "why" of it! Remember the early Moses when he tried to convince God to send someone else the children of Israel in bondage in Egypt?

Has God ever changed? No, according to my understanding He has not, but who among knows all there is to know about God and His Word? We do still see through a glass darkly!

"For I am the LORD, I change not..." Mal 3:6

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:11-14

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Encore!

 

[BarneyFife]

Can you support pro-choice and abortion and still be a Christian?

I would say that its possible to be a Christian who is saved and be severely wrong on worldview issues. But I could be wrong.

There are a lot of Christians who don't have biblical values. Are all of them not saved?

If not, please explain. I realize the road is narrow but isn't salvation based on the belief in the salvation of Christ and His Lordship and not on having the correct worldview?

I believe abortion is a grave sin, one of the defining moral issues of our time. But I think its possible for someone to hold the wrong view but they simply haven't developed a biblical worldview and be ignorant of its importance.

What do you think?

People simply don't have any business judging other people's standing with God. It's quite unnecessary, unproductive, unfruitful, and prohibited by Christ, Himself. This very thing is what He was referring to when He said:

Matthew 6
1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
u.”

Also, more succinctly:

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God. (1 Corinthians 4:5)

 

[farouk]

People simply don't have any business judging other people's standing with God. It's quite unnecessary, unproductive, unfruitful, and prohibited by Christ, Himself. This very thing is what He was referring to when He said:

Matthew 6
1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
u.”

Also, more succinctly:

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God. (1 Corinthians 4:5)

People can be sincerely misled, right?

I wish people were not judged by politics, which so often corrodes the mind.

Truth and doctrine surrounding the Person and Work of Christ are what need to be concentrated on from Scripture.

Any idea of trying to tell ppl which political candidates they supposedly must vote for if they are to be Christians is truly hurtful.

 

[BarneyFife]

Do not try to find black and white rules

I can't tell whether we're at friendly odds on this or...? I think we should seek black-and-white truth for ourselves and encourage others to do the same for themselves. I believe where we go wrong is in actually belittling those who disagree with us and, conversely, with mistaking that encouragement for belittlement.

 

[BarneyFife]

People can be sincerely misled, right?

Absolutely!

I wish people were not judged by politics, which so often corrodes the mind.

Amen, Brother!

Truth and doctrine surrounding the Person and Work of Christ are what need to be concentrated on from Scripture.

I couldn't agree more!

Any idea of trying to tell ppl which political candidates they supposedly must vote for if they are to be Christians is truly hurtful.

I think we're brothers from two different mothers.

 

[Grailhunter]

A general statement.
This is the thing that is so wrong. People come here and ask a simple question and what do they get...circle talk and confusion....trying to suggest that the most elementary of morals....are not black and white. The OSAS crowd does not even know what a good person is. So sad.

Oh ya, listen to the Holy Spirit for guidance....So when your neighbor gets the message to kill you and your family. Are you going to praise the Lord? If you read the Bible, you will receive a Christian conscience. Ya got to be careful of the messages in your head if it does not agree with the morals of the Bible! But for the OSAS crowd, the Bible is not even a guideline. For them the paper that the Word of God is written on is nothing more than toilet paper. Their intent is to destroy Christianity. Enemies of Christ, the Apostles, and the Bible.

The only intent of the OSAS crowd is to destroy lives and promote sin....suggesting a religion of sin. Suggesting that you can sin all you want and be rewarded with heaven. Do not fall for the lies. Do no fall for the message from hell.

They can talk sweet words about love and patience and the spirit but as we all know, Satan speaks a subtle language. And the serpent said, You surely shall not die! Or it ok to sin all you want, you won't go to hell. Its ok to kill babies! We will just call it abortion! There is a possibility to get messages from the Holy Spirit to murder babies. Really?

What is the difference between Satan trying to tempt you to hell and the OSAS people saying you can sin all you want and still go to heaven? At least Satan is not coming at you wearing sheep's clothing on a Christian forum...Giving you that sweet and spiritual sounding advise....It is ok to sin, if you believe in Christ. Its ok to kill babies...you will be reward with heaven.

Its all a grey area, Satan whispers. No one knows right and wrong, how could God hold it against you? Go on and kill babies and sin all you want....heaven will be your reward.

It is sad that they allow this kind on this forum. They are a clear and present danger to the innocent, to the troubled, and to new Christians trying to clean up their lives. They come in here and this is what they run into.
Don't worry about cleaning up your life! That is too much work! Sin all you want, the blood of Christ covers it all! Trust me you will go to heaven no matter what you do! Because that is where evil lives. Oh my gosh just such crazy and evil beliefs.

And the sad thing is that the truth is so simple. Believe, repent, be baptized, and participate in the bread and wine ritual...love God, love one another, and do good and be good. And then you can count on heaven. Don't let these people lie to you.

 

[amadeus]

People can be sincerely misled, right?

I wish people were not judged by politics, which so often corrodes the mind.

Truth and doctrine surrounding the Person and Work of Christ are what need to be concentrated on from Scripture.

Any idea of trying to tell ppl which political candidates they supposedly must vote for if they are to be Christians is truly hurtful.

Or the idea of trying to tell people whether or not to receive a medical treatment [such as a Covid-19 shot?] in order to stay on God's side!

 

[BarneyFife]

A general statement.
This is the thing that is so wrong. People come here and ask a simple question and what do they get...circle talk and confusion....trying to suggest that the most elementary of morals....are not black and white. The OSAS crowd does not even know what a good persons is. So sad.

Oh ya, listen to the Holy Spirit for guidance....So when your neighbor gets the message to kill you and your family. Are you going to praise the Lord? If you read the Bible, you will receive a Christian conscience. Ya got to be careful of the messages in your head if it does not agree with the morals of the Bible! But for the OSAS crowd, the Bible is not even a guideline. For them the paper that the Word of God is written on is nothing more that toilet paper. Their intent is to destroy Christianity. Enemies of Christ, the Apostles, and the Bible.

The only intent of the OSAS crowd is to destroy lives and promote sin....suggesting a religion of sin. Suggesting that you can sin all you want and be rewarded with heaven. Do not fall for the lies. Do no fall for the message from hell.

They can talk sweet words about love and patience and the spirit but as we all know, Satan speaks a subtle language. And the serpent said, You surely shall not die! Or it ok to sin all you want, you won't go to hell. Its ok to kill babies! We will just call it abortion! There is a possibility to get messages from the Holy Spirit to murder babies. Really?

What is the difference between Satan trying to tempt you to hell and the OSAS people saying you can sin all you want and still go to heaven? At least Satan is not coming at you wearing sheep's clothing on a Christian forum...Giving you that sweet and spiritual sounding advise....It is ok to sin, if you believe in Christ. Its ok to kill babies...you will be reward with heaven.

It all a grey area, Satan whispers. No one knows right and wrong, how could God hold it against you? Go on and kill babies and sin all you want....heaven will be your reward.

It is sad that they allow this kind on this forum. They are a clear and present danger to the innocent, to the troubled, and to new Christians trying to clean up their lives. They come in here and this is what they run into.
Don't worry about cleaning up your life! That is to much work! Sin all you want, the blood of Christ covers it all! Trust me you will go to heaven no matter what you do! Because that is where evil lives. Oh my gosh just such crazy and evil beliefs.

And the sad thing is that the truth is so simple. Believe, repent, be baptized, and participate in the bread and wine ritual...love God, love one another, and do good and be good. And then you can count on heaven. Don't let these people lie to you.

What does eternal security have to do with abortion? I'm not in agreement with either, but most people I know who believe in eternal security are staunchly pro-life.

 

[amadeus]

I can't tell whether we're at friendly odds on this or...? I think we should seek black-and-white truth for ourselves and encourage others to do the same for themselves. I believe where we go wrong is in actually belittling those who disagree with us and, conversely, with mistaking that encouragement for belittlement.

If we are going according to scripture what are we told to seek?

What did Moses ask to see?

"And he said, I beseech thee, show me thy glory." Ex 33:18

And what response did Moses receive?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." Ex 33:20-23

What was David told to seek?

Ps 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

What did Jesus tell us to seek?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;..." Matt 6:33

And according to that where would the "black and white truth" [if needed] come from...?

"...and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

And then we when read what Paul was inspired to write we find this:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

When and how do we arrive at that "then face to face"?
Could it not relate back to the Matt 6:33 cited above?

And then consider what John wrote here:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[Grailhunter]

What does eternal security have to do with abortion?

First of all, when people come up with slogans they are usually trying to feed you a lie. Eternal security is not a phrase that appears in the Bible. The day you are saved is not Judgment Day. You and I and everyone else is yet to be judged as to whether or not we are going to heaven. So eternal security has nothing to do with Christianity. And I disagree that the OSAS group is pro-life....I disagree to the extreme...there is no moral conviction that they hold...they preach sin and sin some more and the blood of Christ covers it all and you are guaranteed heaven.

Now having said that....what group of OSAS are you in? At least four possible groups...not that any are really good.

 

[amigo de christo]

CAN the pot keep denying the potter and still be saved .
NOPE .
THUS can none who are in sin and yet even after being warned they continue , BE TRULY FOLLOWING CHRIST .
THUS that means they follow another PRO CHOICE jesus . AND NO i wont captilize that jesus . ONLY THE TRUE JESUS gets HIS NAME
CAPITALIZED

 

[amigo de christo]

If JESUS was pro choice , HE would never have said , NEVER THE LESS THY WILL BE DONE .
AND IT IS NOT THE DESIRE OFGOD that BABIES BE SLAUGHTERED .
SO make no mistake about it , JESUS DOES NOT SUPPORT PRO CHOICE ABORTION DEATH DUNG PUKE LIES .

 

[amigo de christo]

If we are going according to scripture what are we told to seek?

What did Moses ask to see?

"And he said, I beseech thee, show me thy glory." Ex 33:18

And what response did Moses receive?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." Ex 33:20-23

What was David told to seek?

Ps 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

What did Jesus tell us to seek?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;..." Matt 6:33

And according to that where would the "black and white truth" [if needed] come from...?

"...and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

And then we when read what Paul was inspired to write we find this:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

When and how do we arrive at that "then face to face"?
Could it not relate back to the Matt 6:33 cited above?

And then consider what John wrote here:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

And WHO IS THE GLORY OF GOD . Think about this . ITS JESUS .
JESUS IS THE LIGHT OF GOD , THE GLORY OF GOD .
THUS , If folks dont believe in HIM , THEY AINT GONNA MAKE IT MY FRIEND . OH I know
my relentless preaching of JESUS only saves must truly bother some . BUT HEY , HE ALONE IS MY ONLY HOPE
and by grace i know HE ALONE IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR ANYONE . SO JESUS IS GONNA BE POINTED TOO .
Though it has cost me already to do so , IT ALL JOY DO TO SO . I HAVE NO GREATER JOY than this
TO POINT TO JESUS and TO SEE folks walking in that truth . ITS ALL THAT MATTERS . I KNOW the all inclusive many path lie
IS A LIE . ANd it wont save ANYONE but rather will damn them for eternity . BUT I ALSO KNOW
JESUS ALONE SAVES . THUS IF ANYONE WANTS SALVATION , THEY BETTER RUN TO HIM . I TAKE THIS TO MY GRAVE .

 

[DPMartin]

Seeing as I am not arguing for abortion in the first place, I am baffled with your highlighted comment...

i doubt that very much

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

AND IT IS NOT THE DESIRE OFGOD that BABIES BE SLAUGHTERED .

Did that apply to all the children (born and yet to be) in Sodom, Gomorrah, Noah's Flood, Canaanites, the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites?
That "not leave anything alive that breathes" is pretty specific and all inclusive.

 

[amigo de christo]

Did that apply to all the children (born and yet to be) in Sodom, Gomorrah, Noah's Flood, Canaanites, the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites?
That "not leave anything alive that breathes" is pretty specific and all inclusive.

Well the damantion part is all inclusive . ANYONE WHO REJECTS JESUS IS DAMNED . THAT i take to my grave .
But to all who hear and believe , NOW THEMS HAVE ALL HOPE .
Only i would add they better make sure its the biblical JESUS they follow and not mens jesus they many often preach .
SO there is me meeing the ALL inclusive half way . ALL WHO DENY , WHO BELIEVE NOT IN JESUS WILL TRULY BE DAMNED
BUT ALL WHO BELEIVE IN HIM SHALL BE SAVED . HOWS THAT . NOW take that to pope francis . THAT charlaton and YES HE IS
As are many of his protestant daughters , That charlaton speaks lies like a dragon . SO DO his followers .

 

[farouk]

i doubt that very much

Sir, I really don't know what the point of such comments is. I am not arguing for abortion - on the contrary - but as @Wynona says in her OP sometimes a consistent view of things can take time to emerge among those who profess.

I do find any idea of "Unless you vote for the political candidate that I vote for, you are not a Christian" view to be very repulsive.

Politics can be such a confusing and disturbing element in a believer's thinking.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Well the damantion part is all inclusive . ANYONE WHO REJECTS JESUS IS DAMNED . THAT i take to my grave .
But to all who hear and believe , NOW THEMS HAVE ALL HOPE .
Only i would add they better make sure its the biblical JESUS they follow and not mens jesus they many often preach .
SO there is me meeing the ALL inclusive half way . ALL WHO DENY , WHO BELIEVE NOT IN JESUS WILL TRULY BE DAMNED
BUT ALL WHO BELEIVE IN HIM SHALL BE SAVED . HOWS THAT . NOW take that to pope francis . THAT charlaton and YES HE IS
As are many of his protestant daughters , That charlaton speaks lies like a dragon . SO DO his followers .

I don't disagree with anything quoted here but none of it is relevant to any point raised in this thread.

 

[amigo de christo]

Sir, I really don't know what the point of such comments is. I am not arguing for abortion - on the contrary - but as @Wynona says in her OP sometimes a consistent view of things can take time to emerge among those who profess.

I do find any idea of "Unless you vote for the political candidate that I vote for, you are not a Christian" view to be very repulsive.

Politics can be such a confusing and disturbing element in a believer's thinking.

i vote for none of them . Just keeping it real for all my friends . ALL SIDES DONE SOLD JESUS OUT .
THEY WONT get a vote from me . PEROID .
They can keep this kingdom , I HAVE MINE . BEAUTIFUL and GLORIOUS IT TRULY IS . ABOVE IN HEAVEN .
MOTHER JERUSALEM . Now let the LORD be praised .

 

[farouk]

i vote for none of them . Just keeping it real for all my friends . ALL SIDES DONE SOLD JESUS OUT .
THEY WONT get a vote from me . PEROID .
They can keep this kingdom , I HAVE MINE . BEAUTIFUL and GLORIOUS IT TRULY IS . ABOVE IN HEAVEN .
MOTHER JERUSALEM . Now let the LORD be praised .

I can understand steering clear of politics altogether...