Christianity as a Closed System

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St. SteVen

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well, ive always been a scofflaw, so i have to be careful there i guess
Wow. That's such a great word, "scofflaw". - LOL
Years of debate with Sabbatarians has put me in the same category.
Plenty to say on that subject.
which imo despite the vehement protestations to the contrary most Christians are firmly, completely under, as can be discerned by their speech (and one or two other, that ill keep to myself for now) patterns, “prove it!
Yes, I agree.
Much misunderstanding in that area.
its a fact, the truth is,” etc. But tbh i have not looked for the Body of Christ among “believers” for a long time now.
Wow. That's quite a statement. I want to hear more. PM me?
nice op btw :)
Thanks for reading and responding. Much appreciated, bro.
 
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MatthewG

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Thanks for your reply.
Yes; I encourage everyone to read the Bible cover-to-cover at least once.
I did this as a young man. Created my own study Bible with underlining, cross references, and notes written all over it.
I literally destroyed the book. The result is that scriptures come to mind all the time now. HUGE benefit.

No doubt; that happened to the kjv little version when I finally started reading the Bible. I haven’t read it cover to cover myself but that Bible got destroyed by my eagerness to read and find out more about the content in it. (Mainly was learning about Christ in the beginning - so the New Testament was something constantly being read).

A type of Bible I recommend is this one:
 
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Wrangler

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ya, bc that worked so well with your kids right

Yes. It worked very well with my kids. Thanks! Why do you mention that?

pls just do post 83 k

OK

Ourselves.

cmon, be honest
or at least give us a Quote :)

but pretty obv we are eventually going to get to “from eternal damnation,” right

We are being saved from ourselves. The quote is the Original Sin. See Genesis 2-3.

I do not believe we are damned for our sins but by our sins. People want to blame God for judging us - AS IF his standard of judgment is not perfect - but it is we who condemn ourselves by our choices. Eternal damnation is the default human condition. God has provided a get out of jail free card. All we have to do is accept it.

People have such a sinful nature that they do not even want to go through the effort to accept a gift of infinite value. If I write a check to you for $1,000,000,000, it only benefits you by actually cashing the check, depositing it into your account. In other words, by accepting the gift.

This is why those that claim salvation is due to no action on our part (no works) are hurting the cause. They are indoctrinated into foolishness. It does take action on our part, starting with humbling ourselves to recognize our need to be saved.

Hope this helps.
 

Wrangler

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you dont have to answer the q if you dont wanna :)
no prob
How does my post not answer the question?

Yes. It worked very well with my kids. Thanks! Why do you mention that?



OK





We are being saved from ourselves. The quote is the Original Sin. See Genesis 2-3.

I do not believe we are damned for our sins but by our sins. People want to blame God for judging us - AS IF his standard of judgment is not perfect - but it is we who condemn ourselves by our choices. Eternal damnation is the default human condition. God has provided a get out of jail free card. All we have to do is accept it.

People have such a sinful nature that they do not even want to go through the effort to accept a gift of infinite value. If I write a check to you for $1,000,000,000, it only benefits you by actually cashing the check, depositing it into your account. In other words, by accepting the gift.

This is why those that claim salvation is due to no action on our part (no works) are hurting the cause. They are indoctrinated into foolishness. It does take action on our part, starting with humbling ourselves to recognize our need to be saved.

Hope this helps.
 

Wrangler

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its an evasion imo, not really an answer
just like your selective replies wadr
"Saved, from what?"
I answered what you are saved from. I even elaborated the answer in great detail.

Nothing was evaded.

You just don’t like my answer.

And that begs the question of what would qualify as an answer and why is that the standard of a legitimate answer.
 

Aunty Jane

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I'm not opposed to proper boundaries. But I am opposed to a closed system ruled by fear.
Can you see the difference? (of course you can)
Absolutely agree! But again history reveals the place that fear held in the apostasy, leading to the corruption that Jesus and his apostles warned about.
This term in Greek (a·po·sta·siʹa) comes from the verb a·phiʹste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.” Paul was accused of apostasy from the teachings of Moses. (Acts 21:21) Yet his accusers were the ones who had apostatised hundreds of years earlier. The last prophet Jehovah sent to his people was Malachi. As usual, they ignored the prophets sent to them.

Malachi’s prophecy indicates that the religious zeal and enthusiasm aroused by the prophets Haggai and Zechariah at the time of rebuilding the temple had passed away. Priests had become careless, proud, and self-righteous. Temple services had become a mockery. Tithes and offerings had lapsed because of a feeling that God was not interested in Israel. The hopes centered in Zerubbabel had not been realized, and contrary to some expectations, Messiah had not come. The Jews’ spiritual state was at a very low ebb.
History tells us that God did not try to correct his people again, instead he allowed them to do what they wanted until it was time for Messiah’s appearance.

By that time Judaism was what Jesus said....
“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 25:7-9)

Their worship was “in vain” because they had lost the plot completely. In that environment Saul of Tarsus had been persecuting the Christians and believing that he was working for the good of the God he was serving. But after his miraculous conversion on the road to Damascus, he turned around and became their enemy...an “apostate” from their corrupted teachings.

Fast forward to the second century and we see a weakened Christian Faith gradually eroding the teachings of the Christ and substituting human traditions just as Judaism had done.....history was repeating.

In the fourth century we see the installation of the Roman Catholic church as the mandated state religion of the Roman Empire. It was a political strategy to consolidate a religiously divided empire, combining pagan concepts and celebrations with elements of the Christian Faith. This corrupted form of “Christianity” then became the only form in existence for some 1500 years....deeply ingrained concepts that find no origin in scripture became doctrine, and are still in evidence to this day. Fear of the inquisition kept people from speaking up back then, and fear of burning in hell still keeps people in bondage. Where there is fear, there cannot be love. True love has to be the genuine motivator. Morbid fear has no place in a Christian’s life...our only fear should be in engaging in conduct that displeases our God. By our conduct we can lose his favour as was demonstrated throughout the Bible.

We all have the same choice today as the first Christians had in Jesus’ day. The Christian scriptures were recorded and the entire Bible is there for our benefit...to teach us how NOT to allow history to go on repeating with us. We have to identify all forms of false religion and remove ourselves from it. (Rev 18:4-5)

The “wheat” are in the world, but finding them is difficult when the devil has planted a whole forest of fakes around them. Like the genuine prophets before them as God’s messengers, the devil will make the “wheat” look like they are the “weeds”. The masses will stick to what they know and reject the truth because it seems wrong to them......but why? The strongly entrenched ideas planted by the devil all those centuries ago is the only “truth” they will accept. This is brainwashing at its best.

We have to examine the scriptures prayerfully and ask for God’s guidance because only he can direct us to his true servants.....(who wil be a hated minority like the first Christians were. John 15:18-21)....and only if we have the qualities that God is looking for in the citizens he chooses to live in his Kingdom. (John 6:65)

That Kingdom will “come” in ways that the majority do not expect, and only then can God’s will “be done on earth as it is in heaven”.....(Rev 21:2-4)
 
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St. SteVen

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What then is “the Kingdom of God”......how does it “come”......and what will it mean for mankind, according to your view?
That's a broad reaching question.
I believe that I am ALREADY in (a member of) the Kingdom of God. But...
There is more to come.
 

Aunty Jane

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That's a broad reaching question.
I believe that I am ALREADY in (a member of) the Kingdom of God. But...
There is more to come.
The details are important because we are commissioned to “preach the good news (gospel) of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations and then the end will come” (Matt 24:14)
I find that most people in Christendom, when asked the question...”what is God’s Kingdom?”, have great difficulty answering it.

How can we preach about something we know nothing about? We have to understand what our message is about before we can tell others about it....no?
 
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MatthewG

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the kingdom of heaven resides in the hearts of believers.

The hope found in Christ is that one day after leaving this life you go on to be with God in the heavenly kingdom of Jerusalem.

Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. Else his servants would fight.

Jesus says that the kingdom of God resides with-in, so thus it must be on the heart, and mind of the believer when they are putting their faith and trust God above all others and having love for Him, first. And loving others.

It’s a lot about faith and trusting God in which you are given the spirit by and through faith in Christ; and you are able to ask God to help you in this life while storing treasures in heaven : which is significant of looking of having a devoted life to God and to live by and walk not just by faith but also by the Spirit.
 
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