Christians are not sinners

[robert derrick]

I certainly look forward to the day that I can say that I am no longer a sinner Robert, but unfortunately I cannot say that at present. Even the saints are sinners sir, but like all of us, we can be washed clean of those sins, but the blood of Christ. Rev 7:14. There have been 3 humans on this earth who at one time were sinless, but only one remained sinless until his death. We do our utmost to pattern our lives after him 1 Pet 2:21, but for now we have to recognize that is an impossibility.

I certainly look forward to the day that I can say that I am no longer a sinner Robert, but unfortunately I cannot say that at present.

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

When we stop thinking we are being 'humble' by acknowledge our lack of being purified and cleansed, then we can humble ourselves before God to do so.

We can be washed clean of those sins, but the blood of Christ.

Then repent and be washed clean. Our hope is vain, if we take our unrepented sins to the grave.

Even the saints are sinners sir.

Then no one has fellowship with Jesus Christ on earth.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

There have been 3 humans on this earth who at one time were sinless,

When we stop excusing ourselves as sinners, by trying to call being holy, harmless, and undefiled, even as He is, as being 'sinless' or claiming to 'have no sin', then by His faith and power we can stop being sinners of the world, and become sons of God.

There are sinners and saints on earth, and there are spirit made perfect in heaven waiting for more saints to join them:

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

And there are souls in hell waiting for their fellow unrepentant sinners.

We do our utmost to pattern our lives after him 1 Pet 2:21.

Our utmost isn't enough for God. He wants to see His Son's utmost in us and through us:

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

But for now we have to recognize that is an impossibility.

'We' don't have to do any such thing, just because you say so, rather than being purified of heart and doing His righteousness at all times.

You're only an idealist in the Christian religion. You read the same Scriptures as do we all, and yet you reject them as commandments to do in this life, but only see them as high and lofty ideals for sinners to try and 'emulate':

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 

[robert derrick]

Christians are not sinners
OP ^

Not my OP, but for myself I would say;
The Converted IN Christ are Forgiven sinners and sin no more.

Glory to God,
Taken

And the Bible calls them saints, no more sinners.

 

[marks]

When we stop excusing ourselves as sinners,

There is a difference between making excuses and stating facts.

I think I've asked you this before, I don't recall you answering me . . . As I read what you write, should I correctly understand that you no longer sin?

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

The TASTING, is speaking of a man...trying out the Word of God.
The PARTAKING, is Gods Blessing of being WITH a man that IS TASTING.

A man can Stop Tasting at ANY Time. Spit the Word of God out of his mouth.
The Partaking of Gods Spirit Blessing that man, being WITH that man then ceases.

That completely changes when a man EATS the Word of God.
The Partaking of Gods Spiritual Blessing become “IN” that man,
Changing the whole situation, that FOREVER God will be “WITH” that man.

The PARTAKING, is Gods Blessing of being WITH a man that IS TASTING.

It is true, that if any person will apply the principles of Scripture, then they will be blessed by it. Being a faithful husband and wife is far better than adultery.

That completely changes when a man EATS the Word of God.

Which would be when obedience to the faith begins in the heart to purify the platter from within first, that the outside may also come truly clean in God's righteousness, and not with man's own good works.

I do see your point, and it could apply to hearers who only agree with the Word of God, but are not obeying the Word as God within the heart, which is to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood, and be a 'full' partaker of the blessing and promises of God.

So we could agree to a difference between partial and full partaking of the Son of God, to which I can testify of myself in the past, but without spitting any out.

The problem is that Scripture never speaks of any difference between partaking and partaking fully. I stick with Scripture always, and do not try to insert my own vision of it into teaching.

I know you are not a hearer-only, but we will disagree on this point. This is strictly a doctrinal dispute of Scripture between us.

I believe by Scripture we can walk away from our being saved with God and be justified with Him no more, and we are warned from departing from our first works and first love, lest our candlestick be taken away completely. (Rev 2)

You agree with OSAS in an eternally secured salvation in this life, although you do not believe it as they with excuse for continuing in sins and trespasses.

And so, in the end, we are both the same in knowing we are to endure keeping ourselves from the wicked one and maintaining good works unto the end.

Those not doing so are not being saved, and whether they were in the past or not no longer matters anyway.

 

[robert derrick]

There is a difference between making excuses and stating facts.

I think I've asked you this before, I don't recall you answering me . . . As I read what you write, should I correctly understand that you no longer sin?

Much love!

There is a difference between stating facts of our own thinking, and quoting Scripture to prove the doctrine.

It's the difference between doing the Word as written, and making excuses for why not.

As I read what you write, should I correctly understand that you no longer sin?

You mean, do I continue doing unrighteousness, transgressing the law of Christ, and committing sins of the devil?

No. Not so far today, and don't plan on it either, which is sufficient for the day.

Have I sinned of the devil before? Certainly as a sinner willingly and gladly. And as a saint I have, and confessed to repent.

Am I perfected as in the resurrection? Of course not.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This says two things:

1. That we claim to have no more temptations of the flesh to endure and overcome. We have arrived to the perfected spiritual body.

No me. I endure to overcome daily, and many times daily, and at times must stop to pray fervently to continue doing so, though never yet to sweating blood as Jesus did in the garden.

2. That we make no mistakes.

Mistakes are not sins of the flesh and unrighteous transgressions of the devil.

I make mistakes plenty of times during any given day. I trip over a stone. I add numbers incorrectly in my work and so make corrections. I forget where my car keys are anytime I don't put them exactly where they belong. I lose my phone the same way.

But, I am improving on not making such mistakes so often, because I always pray daily to heed the warning whisper of the Spirit of wisdom, who cries out in the streets, and is heard, but is most often ignored to our own detriment.

But none of these things have to do with being sinners of the devil against God, and transgressing His law and word.

So. let's stop playing word games and get serious with one another:

You tell me those sins you keep doing and never repent of, and I'll tell you the last time I sinned against God and my own soul, which I did repent of and have not done so again, and don't plan on doing so today.

And tomorrow will be another day, if it comes.

 

[marks]

As I read what you write, should I correctly understand that you no longer sin?

You mean, do I continue doing unrighteousness, transgressing the law of Christ, and committing sins of the devil?

No. Not so far today, and don't plan on it either, which is sufficient for the day.

No, what I mean is what I asked. To say it another way, have you ceased from sin?

If not, then what makes you any different than me? I acknowledge that I still commit sins, and you make out that I don't care. So what's with that??

Much love!

 

[marks]

those sins you keep doing and never repent of,

Some assumption to make. Is that righteousness?

I guess if this is what you think about me, than maybe that explains, if not excuses, the way you write to me.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

Some assumption to make. Is that righteousness?

I guess if this is what you think about me, than maybe that explains, if not excuses, the way you write to me.

Much love!

To say it another way, have you ceased from sin?

It's the same question, and my answer remains the same: yes.

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

If not, then what makes you any different than me? I acknowledge that I still commit sins.

And I don't, and so we remain different. I used to be a sinful Christian such as yourself, but then I began to take the Scripture seriously and obey the commandment to purify my heart of lust first, that the outside platter may be clean in deed and in truth.

"those sins you keep doing and never repent of,"
Some assumption to make. Is that righteousness?

Another difference between us is I know exactly what I'm talking about. You are looking confused.

I guess if this is what you think about me.

It's what you say about you. I only take you at your word.

You claim you still commit sins, and then you get offended by the simple question.

What are these sins you keep committing, and have not repented of?

 

[robert derrick]

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If any Christians are sinners of the devil, then they are hearers only, and not doers of the word to be delivered from the works of the devil.

They no doubt would agree Jesus is the Christ, but they certainly do not obey Him as such.

 

[marks]

and I'll tell you the last time I sinned against God and my own soul, which I did repent of and have not done so again, and don't plan on doing so today.

Here's the heart of the matter.

How do you do that successfully? I know of only one way, and it is 100% effective. That is by trusting in the eternal efficacy of Christ's death on the cross. Do that, and you will not walk after the flesh, you will walk in the Spirit.

But don't expect that to be true with only lip service to the idea. Only when you are really trusting. At least this is what I've found.

When we realize how completely reconciled we are to God, and we rest in what Jesus did for us, and not on what we think we have to do for ourselves, that we release ourselves in faith into the care of the Holy Spirit, without any reservation, because we are reconciled.

In that open hearted faith,

Romans 5:1-5 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

When we realize we are not under any condemnation, nor ever will be again, this doesn't happen:

Romans 7:5-6 KJV
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What I've found is that true and sustained victory over sin comes by complete trust in Jesus, and just allowing His life to come through. When I stop thinking I somehow have to "make it happen", that's when it happens.

Jesus is made unto us sanctification. Trust Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

To say it another way, have you ceased from sin?

It's the same question, and my answer remains the same: yes.

Thank you for your boldness and clarity.

How is it that you are so certain?

I always go back to what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 4, about that even though he didn't know anything against himself, that doesn't mean he self-justifies himself, rather that he waits for Jesus to judge all things, since Jesus is He Who knows the heart of man.

If Paul wasn't willing to say he was sinless, how it is you are?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It's what you say about you. I only take you at your word.

That I just sin and sin in some unrepentant way?

Where did I ever say that? And if not, what should we call your comments? Righteousness? That you say such things?

Much love!

 

[marks]

And I don't, and so we remain different. I used to be a sinful Christian such as yourself, but then I began to take the Scripture seriously and obey the commandment to purify my heart of lust first, that the outside platter may be clean in deed and in truth.

Here's an interesting thing.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

John tells us that we don't appear as we will be, but that when Jesus appears, we will be like Him. We will. Certainty.

And he goes on, that everyone who has this hope, that is, the certainty that they will in fact be like Jesus when Jesus appears, everyone who has that hope - purifies himself.

Knowing that Jesus will complete His work in us, that we will in fact be made like Him when He appears, knowing this is directly credited for us purifying ourselves.

Knowing that Jesus will fully transform us then is what causes us to live transformed now.

Isn't that what we want?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You claim you still commit sins, and then you get offended by the simple question.

What are these sins you keep committing, and have not repented of?

It's "non sequitor", that is, "does not follow", and therefore is not a valid conclusion. That I commit sins at times does not automatically mean I don't care about that, or that I'm not endeavoring to live holy, or that I'm not pursuing righteousness, as you seem to assume of me.

It's also a complex question, a different logical fallacy, as it assumes there are such things. You'd do better to just ask me if there are in fact sins I commit that I am unrepentant about. But instead you skip that step, and apparently just jump to the assumption that because I believe OSAS, that I must be in continual unrepentant sin.

I'm not really here to give a personal defense of myself, though I can assure you that does not describe my state of mind.

But I wonder how much this will matter to you, since you seem to have favored your own assumptions.

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Sometimes I cannot see who @robert derrick
Is addressing....lol

I do however agree with the OP
I am forgiven of my sins as in Romans,I have been convicted of my sins by the HS,I have repented by changing my mind and heart towards God.
I have confessed with my mouth this repentance and forgiveness in Jesus
I AM NOW A BORN AGAIN CHILD OF GOD.
ADOPTED AND MADE JOINT- HEIRS WITH JESUS.

There is forever the battle of the flesh at war with the Spirit. We do commit sin after salvation but we DO NOT continue in them for we have an ADVOCATE with the father,Jesus. He makes intercession and forgiveness for us to the father after we confess and repent to him.

If you prosfess to be a sinner,you let sin rule in your mortal bodies.

Being born again frees from the death of sin!

 

[Robert Gwin]

I certainly look forward to the day that I can say that I am no longer a sinner Robert, but unfortunately I cannot say that at present.

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

When we stop thinking we are being 'humble' by acknowledge our lack of being purified and cleansed, then we can humble ourselves before God to do so.

We can be washed clean of those sins, but the blood of Christ.

Then repent and be washed clean. Our hope is vain, if we take our unrepented sins to the grave.

Even the saints are sinners sir.

Then no one has fellowship with Jesus Christ on earth.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

There have been 3 humans on this earth who at one time were sinless,

When we stop excusing ourselves as sinners, by trying to call being holy, harmless, and undefiled, even as He is, as being 'sinless' or claiming to 'have no sin', then by His faith and power we can stop being sinners of the world, and become sons of God.

There are sinners and saints on earth, and there are spirit made perfect in heaven waiting for more saints to join them:

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

And there are souls in hell waiting for their fellow unrepentant sinners.

We do our utmost to pattern our lives after him 1 Pet 2:21.

Our utmost isn't enough for God. He wants to see His Son's utmost in us and through us:

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

But for now we have to recognize that is an impossibility.

'We' don't have to do any such thing, just because you say so, rather than being purified of heart and doing His righteousness at all times.

You're only an idealist in the Christian religion. You read the same Scriptures as do we all, and yet you reject them as commandments to do in this life, but only see them as high and lofty ideals for sinners to try and 'emulate':

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

May I ask point blank, what is your point Rob? Are you saying you are sinless? Or that anyone is sinless?

 

[robert derrick]

That I just sin and sin in some unrepentant way?

Where did I ever say that? And if not, what should we call your comments? Righteousness? That you say such things?

Much love!

That I just sin and sin in some unrepentant way? Where did I ever say that?

You say you still commit sins, but in a 'repentant' way? Explain please.

 

[Cassandra]

Sometimes I cannot see who @robert derrick
Is addressing....lol

I do however agree with the OP
I am forgiven of my sins as in Romans,I have been convicted of my sins by the HS,I have repented by changing my mind and heart towards God.
I have confessed with my mouth this repentance and forgiveness in Jesus
I AM NOW A BORN AGAIN CHILD OF GOD.
ADOPTED AND MADE JOINT- HEIRS WITH JESUS.

There is forever the battle of the flesh at war with the Spirit. We do commit sin after salvation but we DO NOT continue in them for we have an ADVOCATE with the father,Jesus. He makes intercession and forgiveness for us to the father after we confess and repent to him.

If you profess to be a sinner,you let sin rule in your mortal bodies.

Being born again frees from the death of sin!

Bolds mine.

Well, I think that says that we still sin, but now we have an advocate. Does not mean that we are sinless.

It makes no sense to me that someone can say "I am sinless" and then say they repent for sins.

We are all sinful. But we can ask for forgiveness. And if we fall we can ask again. But one has to ask. What is he asking for? Forgiveness. For what? Committing sin.

Jesus asks us to pray for forgiveness for our trespasses, because He knew we'd still be trespassing.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Bolds mine.

Well, I think that says that we still sin, but now we have an advocate. Does not mean that we are sinless.

It makes no sense to me that someone can say "I am sinless" and then say they repent for sins.

We are all sinful. But we can ask for forgiveness. And if we fall we can ask again. But one has to ask. What is he asking for? Forgiveness. For what? Committing sin.

Jesus asks us to pray for forgiveness for our trespasses, because He knew we'd still be trespassing.

My post does Not say I'm saying we are sinless

You might need to read again b4 you start trying to discredit me. I know the word of God I know what I wrote and I know what God expects of me.
I am not a sinner,neither am I sinless but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of Christ Jesus! I am a child of God.
Though my sins were as scarlet now are they washed white as wool bc the blood has been applied.

You may call yourself whatever you like I am NOT a sinner. I am saved by GRACE through FAITH!

 

[robert derrick]

It's "non sequitor", that is, "does not follow", and therefore is not a valid conclusion. That I commit sins at times does not automatically mean I don't care about that, or that I'm not endeavoring to live holy, or that I'm not pursuing righteousness, as you seem to assume of me.

It's also a complex question, a different logical fallacy, as it assumes there are such things. You'd do better to just ask me if there are in fact sins I commit that I am unrepentant about. But instead you skip that step, and apparently just jump to the assumption that because I believe OSAS, that I must be in continual unrepentant sin.

I'm not really here to give a personal defense of myself, though I can assure you that does not describe my state of mind.

But I wonder how much this will matter to you, since you seem to have favored your own assumptions.

Much love!

That I commit sins at times does not automatically mean I don't care about that, or that I'm not endeavoring to live holy, or that I'm not pursuing righteousness, as you seem to assume of me.

God doesn't care if we 'care' about our sins. Jesus died on the cross that the sinning should stop, first in the heart and also in the life.

God doesn't applaud anyone for 'endeavoring' to live holy, but never doing so, because they keep on sinning against Him.

God commands us to be holy. Today. Not caring about it, to 'pursue' it as an impossible dream in this life. We don't pursue being holy, we are either being holy or not.

Your idealism as a Christian sinner committing sins 'at times', is not counted for righteousness nor holiness with God, but as ungodly and of the devil:

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more.

You read these Scriptures, and yet, you do not believe they apply to you as a Christian sinner.

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Christian sinners are not doing this Scripture, because they do not see all Scripture as commandment of God to do the word as written. It is only a laudable idea, but certainly not doable.

It's also a complex question, a different logical fallacy, as it assumes there are such things.

Making the simple complex is man's best means of excuse making.

It's simple in Scripture: we either purify our hearts to do His will at all times, or we don't.

As you said, "who does not disobey God?" I.e. your idea is that no Christian can go through a whole day, and especially not daily, without disobeying God. Your own ideal Christian living does not 'envision' that as possible. It is only a great but impossible idea.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Christian idealists do not believe the Scripture is a commandment to obey, because they do not believe it is possible to do so, and so they complex the commandment into an idealized version of life only.

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Christian idealists believe all blessings are possible with God for themselves, but not all Scripture as commandment to do themselves.

The agree and care about all Scripture, but not to do it all as commandment of God.

that because I believe OSAS, that I must be in continual unrepentant sin.

Because you declare yourself to be a sinner, and still commit sins, which Scripture condemns as continual unrepentant sin.

Your idea of committing sin at times is perfectly natural and normal for Christian sinners, but with God sinning at times is sinning all the time, because sinning once is to sin against all:

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

When we repent of sin in the heart first, we may also repent of committing sins in life.

SInce this is not possible for Christian sinners, then they complex Scripture from if we sin to 'when we sin', since it is not possible for sinners not to commit sins.

You'd do better to just ask me if there are in fact sins I commit that I am unrepentant about.

I've done so several times.