Christians are not under the New Covenant

[David in NJ]

He most likely would of been one of the Jews who was water baptised, many were you know and that's why he had such faith. he was a seeking person to say what he did regardless. so he was not opposition to in fact.
No one can make a claim that he was not water baptised at all in fact.

All who call on the Name of Jesus Christ shall be saved ? that about that such a ones faith and faith has the power to grow ?
One who calls on the Name of Jesus Christ ? does not mean one who call on his Name like the ones who say lord lord ?
As Calls means they do so 24/7 abidingly in his name.
When one is water baptised by a Christian community your mum and dad and others have welcomed a baby into their Christian community, so that they will have the ability to repent Sins and the hope that such a one gets truly born again.

A lot of fools rant and rave about the pre Church Bible relation of some poor bastard, that reads the Word in the Bible and that it clicks that they have some faith in the word, to go forward and get water baptised, they are not Saved because they are water baptised but they are on the path that hopefully that they will be Saved = born again. Remember the parable of the sower ?

So I get this type all the time claiming that they got water baptised at some age because they wanted to. but the poor bastards were not baptised by their parents will, because they were bastards, only a bastard would not welcome their child into the Church, as that's what water baptism is about.

The Water baptism does give strength to a child regardless because they are in good hands. outside of that one has no direction.

I have seen all the ranting and raving of all types who outright fear to Baptise there Children or warn others not to do so, but they will have a Godless bastard naming party.
Over the years I have seen the works of such is a disgrace, in fact it's all Anti-Christ works, due to people do not have enough faith to truly believe in Jesus Christ to water baptise the Child.

Some truly fear the water baptism in fact and will do everything that they can, so it does not take place, a good mate of mines wife was like that and went off it's rocker about such, that that was the last thing she would want ever.

People are so strong about not water baptising children that a demon comes out of them ! it's like when you mention the name Jesus Christ you see the demon come out in them directly.

Did the Jews in the OT fear water baptism, No ! Who was it that stood over people on such issues ? a group that was trying every trick in the book to undermine God and lead the people astray in fact, for their bastard gods.

What did Jesus say about the little ones ? not to ? remember that.

If he was water baptised, it was the baptism of John - not of the Lord Jesus.
He was saved purely by Grace at the choosing of the Father and the revealing by the Holy Spirit.

i do not put any trust in water baptism for Salvation - i do so as an act of obedience but not as a necessary requirement for Salvation.

i see necessary as obedience unto God, a act of faith and expression in a persons heart, just as mine was after, i came to Christ.

Nothing changed in my heart or faith after the water baptism.

The real Eternal baptism is the baptism in Christ which John the baptist prophesied to all who came to him.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’ 31I myself did not know Him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that He might be revealed to Israel.” 32Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God."
John 1:29-34

The baptism of John is over and past - his mission was completed - MISSION IMPOSSIBLE has been enacted

There are THREE PROMISES

 

[theefaith]

The 'new' covenant is the covenant of faith, by the Spirit. As opposed to the old covenant, the covenant of works, by the letter of the law. Both sealed by blood. One by the blood of animals, the other by the blood of Christ—the blood of the "eternal" covenant (Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 13:8, 1 Peter 1:20).

there is no verse in scripture saying “covenant of faith” or “covenant of faith alone”
Never does it say accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior

scripture demands faith and sacraments
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-37

 

[theefaith]

Was there any point in you quoting those Hebrews 9 verses?

New covenant in his blood
We are baptized in his blood in his new covenant
Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

 

[theefaith]

What's that got to do with Christians not being under the New Covenant?

The new covenant church replaced the old covenant israel

 

[theefaith]

Matthew 16:18) I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, Peter is not the foundation of the church - the fact that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God (Matthew 16:16) is the foundation that Jesus build on.

1 Corinthians 3:11 (WEB): For no one can lay any other foundation than that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ.

and he layed it on the apostles eph 2:20

Peace and order are established by God thru obedience to hierarchical authority

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

 

[Grailhunter]

How was the thief on the cross next to Jesus saved? B water baptism or by faith?

No water baptism, but he was crucified with Christ.
But still what exactly happened there?
At best this event is an enigmatic anomaly that generates a list of questions.
Was the prescribed process of Faith + Repentance + Baptism + the Bread and Wine ritual in effect yet?
Should we all choose crucifixion over water baptism? Salvation by crucifixion?
If you are saved by crucifixion do you forgo Judgment Day?
After this event did the Apostles site this as an alternative way to go to Heaven?
Do we know for sure where paradise is or what it is?
Does the Bible indicate that Christ went from the cross to Heaven?
Should Christ have said, Sorry too late, there is no way to water baptize you, so you are going to Hell.

I was talking to @Helen the other day and she was explaining that her brother received the Holy Spirit before He was baptized.
And I agree that God does what He wants. "The Way" to Heaven, "The Way" to salvation....God can tell us "The Way" to salvation. But we cannot tell Him He cannot forgo that process or path, God has the right of special circumstances to select someone.

Was this an anomaly at all? Through the centuries how many times has Christ made special selections. Did Christ baptize the Apostles? Should we forget what we have been told to do and just hope that He selects us?

 

[keithr]

How was the thief on the cross next to Jesus saved? B water baptism or by faith?

We have no way of knowing if the thief had been baptised or whether he had faith in Jesus (but if he had then he had since fallen away, seeing that he had been sinning as a thief and was being executed). However, the thief was not a Christian and not called by God to become a member of the body and bride of Christ, and so he will not be given an immortal divine nature spirit body when he is resurrected. We know that because Jesus said that the thief would be with him in paradise, that is, when the thief is resurrected (for all are saved from death by Jesus' sacrifice) he will be resurrected as a human and live on the earth in paradise. Jesus did not say that the thief would be with him in heaven.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

there is no verse in scripture saying “covenant of faith”...

The new covenant is a covenant based on faith in God's promise of a Son that will inherit the blessing on our behalf. That is the very covenant Abraham entered into with God. No change. Same covenant of faith for us today. Paul explains why the covenant of law was inserted into the mix. But he also explains it in no way nullifies the covenant of faith God established with Abraham and those who walk in those same footsteps of faith.

scripture demands faith and sacraments
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-37

There is no question that faith, by virtue of what faith is, must be accompanied by action corresponding to that faith.
The problem with the Catholics is they have turned the obligation faith has to act into a works gospel.
They think works literally puts God in debt to them to give them salvation as just payment for their works.
It's the very same mistake the Israelites made.

"the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works." Romans 9:30-32
​

...or “covenant of faith alone”

Oh, by the way. It's "righteousness APART FROM WORKS" (Romans 4:6)
You really need to understand the argument you're railing against, and stop confusing it with James' 'faith alone' argument.

You Catholics say being declared righteous (being made righteous) comes from doing works. Paul says righteousness comes by faith APART FROM WORKS. We are made righteous in God's sight the exact same way Abraham was made righteous in God's sight—on the merit of faith apart from the doing of any works. What works did Abraham perform in Genesis 15:6 to have right standing with God imputed to him? Baptism? Circumcision? Communion?

 

[theefaith]

The new covenant is a covenant based on faith in God's promise of a Son that will inherit the blessing on our behalf. That is the very covenant Abraham entered into with God. No change. Same covenant of faith for us today. Paul explains why the covenant of law was inserted into the mix. But he also explains it in no way nullifies the covenant of faith God established with Abraham and those who walk in those same footsteps of faith.


There is no question that faith, by virtue of what faith is, must be accompanied by action corresponding to that faith.
The problem with the Catholics is they have turned the obligation faith has to act into a works gospel.
They think works literally puts God in debt to them to give them salvation as just payment for their works.
It's the very same mistake the Israelites made.

"the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works." Romans 9:30-32
​

Oh, by the way. It's "righteousness APART FROM WORKS" (Romans 4:6)
You really need to understand the argument you're railing against, and stop confusing it with James' 'faith alone' argument.

You Catholics say being declared righteous (being made righteous) comes from doing works. Paul says righteousness comes by faith APART FROM WORKS. We are made righteous in God's sight the exact same way Abraham was made righteous in God's sight—on the merit of faith apart from the doing of any works. What works did Abraham perform in Genesis 15:6 to have right standing with God imputed to him? Baptism? Circumcision? Communion?

mans the sacraments?

 

[TEXBOW]

No water baptism, but he was crucified with Christ.
But still what exactly happened there?
At best this event is an enigmatic anomaly that generates a list of questions.
Was the prescribed process of Faith + Repentance + Baptism + the Bread and Wine ritual in effect yet?
Should we all choose crucifixion over water baptism? Salvation by crucifixion?
If you are saved by crucifixion do you forgo Judgment Day?
After this event did the Apostles site this as an alternative way to go to Heaven?
Do we know for sure where paradise is or what it is?
Does the Bible indicate that Christ went from the cross to Heaven?
Should Christ have said, Sorry too late, there is no way to water baptize you, so you are going to Hell.

I was talking to @Helen the other day and she was explaining that her brother received the Holy Spirit before He was baptized.
And I agree that God does what He wants. "The Way" to Heaven, "The Way" to salvation....God can tell us "The Way" to salvation. But we cannot tell Him He cannot forgo that process or path, God has the right of special circumstances to select someone.

Was this an anomaly at all? Through the centuries how many times has Christ made special selections. Did Christ baptize the Apostles? Should we forget what we have been told to do and just hope that He selects us?

Anomaly? Really? After the cross salvation was by faith alone and not works. No more law, no more sacrifices, no more bathing rituals, no more water baptism. Spirit baptism replaced water baptism. Move beyond early Acts and understand the mystery reveled to Paul and the Apostles after Pauls experience on the road to Damascus. Why ignore the Holy Scriptures after Acts? Paul makes this very clear.

 

[TEXBOW]

New covenant in his blood
We are baptized in his blood in his new covenant
Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

I noticed you fail to mention any of Pauls teaching after the mystery was reveled. Salvation by faith alone. Many do not understand the change that came after the cross. Following the law and rituals stopped during the dispensation of grace. Paul makes this very clear.

 

[keithr]

and he layed it on the apostles eph 2:20

Ephesians 2:20 (WEB): being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone;

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Because Jesus was making a play on words. Matthew 16:18 (WEB):

I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.​

Peter is petros (and means a rock or stone) and rock is petra (and means a rock, cliff, ledge or large stone).

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?

Jesus was speaking to all his disciples, so he may have meant that he was giving all his disciples the kings to the Kingdom. However, assuming that he was talking just to Peter, he gives him the keys (plural), signifying that it would be Peter that would preach to the Jews on the day of Pentecost (and onwards), announcing that Jesus was the Messiah, and how they could enter the Kingdom - Acts 2 (WEB):

36) “Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37) Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38) Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.​

And also he would later open up the kingdom for the gentiles when he was sent to Cornelius - Acts 10.

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

You don't, obviously! But then, Jesus wasn't talking to a confession.

 

[theefaith]

Anomaly? Really? After the cross salvation was by faith alone and not works. No more law, no more sacrifices, no more bathing rituals, no more water baptism. Spirit baptism replaced water baptism. Move beyond early Acts and understand the mystery reveled to Paul and the Apostles after Pauls experience on the road to Damascus. Why ignore the Holy Scriptures after Acts? Paul makes this very clear.

It’s not a bible study!
It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

 

[theefaith]

I noticed you fail to mention any of Pauls teaching after the mystery was reveled. Salvation by faith alone. Many do not understand the change that came after the cross. Following the law and rituals stopped during the dispensation of grace. Paul makes this very clear.

explain
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[theefaith]

Ephesians 2:20 (WEB): being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone;


Because Jesus was making a play on words. Matthew 16:18 (WEB):

I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.​

Peter is petros (and means a rock or stone) and rock is petra (and means a rock, cliff, ledge or large stone).


Jesus was speaking to all his disciples, so he may have meant that he was giving all his disciples the kings to the Kingdom. However, assuming that he was talking just to Peter, he gives him the keys (plural), signifying that it would be Peter that would preach to the Jews on the day of Pentecost (and onwards), announcing that Jesus was the Messiah, and how they could enter the Kingdom - Acts 2 (WEB):

36) “Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37) Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38) Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.​

And also he would later open up the kingdom for the gentiles when he was sent to Cornelius - Acts 10.


You don't, obviously! But then, Jesus wasn't talking to a confession.

and Isa 22:21-22

 

[TEXBOW]

For those who believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation, what about all those who accepted Christ after a sermon by a Chaplin on ships during WWII only to die while storming the beaches? What about all the elderly and sick in hospitals who were preached the Gospel only days before death? You have just kicked out millions from the body of Christ. Water baptism and Communion are ordinances not means of salvation. You cannot do ANYTHING to merit salvation but have FAITH. The Apostle Paul makes this very very clear. You cannot reference scripture prior to the cross as a means of salvation. The cross changed everything. The Jews had a very difficult time accepting God's grace. I do not. Those who have Faith and serve our Lord are a changed person indwelled with the Holy Spirit. Seeking a righteous life not for salvation but out of our love for your Lord. The fruit of the Holy Spirit should be evident in our lives as believers and if it is not you must examine yourself. Set aside denomination mission statements, denominational beliefs and seek guidance by the Holy Spirit in reading the scriptures. Traditions of men are not reliable.

 

[theefaith]

For those who believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation, what about all those who accepted Christ after a sermon by a Chaplin on ships during WWII only to die while storming the beaches? What about all the elderly and sick in hospitals who were preached the Gospel only days before death? You have just kicked out millions from the body of Christ. Water baptism and Communion are ordinances not means of salvation. You cannot do ANYTHING to merit salvation but have FAITH. The Apostle Paul makes this very very clear. You cannot reference scripture prior to the cross as a means of salvation. The cross changed everything. The Jews had a very difficult time accepting God's grace. I do not. Those who have Faith and serve our Lord are a changed person indwelled with the Holy Spirit. Seeking a righteous life not for salvation but out of our love for your Lord. The fruit of the Holy Spirit should be evident in our lives as believers and if it is not you must examine yourself. Set aside denomination mission statements, denominational beliefs and seek guidance by the Holy Spirit in reading the scriptures. Traditions of men are not reliable.

there is a large difference from baptism not being available as opposed to being readily available and rejecting it
Mk 16:16

 

[TEXBOW]

explain
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

In Romans 13 (context) Paul is addressing the Church in Rome regarding civil authority. We should submit to civil authority but our salvation is in Christ Jesus. Paul is telling them to awake from their carnal security. We must understand that our salvation is by faith alone but that does not eliminate our walk in faith. It does not excuse us sin, it does not excuse us of Gods commands. Paul clearly tells us that we can do things to eliminate our inheritance. He list them out. Our works post salvation are not for salvation but evidence of our salvation.

 

[TEXBOW]

there is a large difference from baptism not being available as opposed to being readily available and rejecting it
Mk 16:16

I believe we as followers of Christ should keep his ordinances. She should seek righteousness and the gifts of the spirit. I do not know why anyone would reject water baptism or communion but I do not believe it is a requirement for salvation. I base my beliefs upon the teachings of Paul after God reveled the mystery to him and the Holy Spirit reveled it to the Apostles. Its clear that things had changed after the cross. In the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and maybe John when Jesus was in his earthly ministry the mystery had not been reveled to ANYONE. God said it was a secret. The early prophets didn't know. Ephesians 3. I'm not a hyper dispensationalist or hyper grace follower. I believe those believers who accepted the Messiah prior to the cross are all in the same body of Christ. The scriptures teach us that we are heirs, we have been grafted in. Gentiles and Jews who have been saved by faith are all in the same body of Christ. I do not think the "Little Flock" are in another body. The Little Flock certainly received salvation (Sermon on the mount as an example) differently than those after the cross but so did Abraham.

 

[theefaith]

In Romans 13 (context) Paul is addressing the Church in Rome regarding civil authority. We should submit to civil authority but our salvation is in Christ Jesus. Paul is telling them to awake from their carnal security. We must understand that our salvation is by faith alone but that does not eliminate our walk in faith. It does not excuse us sin, it does not excuse us of Gods commands. Paul clearly tells us that we can do things to eliminate our inheritance. He list them out. Our works post salvation are not for salvation but evidence of our salvation.

show where the Bible says “faith alone”
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36/38