Christians are not under the New Covenant

[TEXBOW]

really matt 28:19-20


Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

My fear is that many who share your beliefs fail to realize the significance of the cross. They point to scripture prior to the cross. They point to scripture prior to the revelation to Paul by Jesus. They feel Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was not enough. Brother, we just have to realize we do not agree on this matter. I pray we both understand and serve our Lord according to his will. I hope we fellowship in Heaven one day soon when our thoughts and understandings are in agreement.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And the necessity of the sacraments?

Each has it's purpose and value. But none make you righteous as a reward for good work. That happens by having faith in the promise of God, all by itself, apart from the merit of works. Just as it happened for Abraham, our example. And so it is for us, too, who believe in God's promise of a Son who will inherit the blessing on our behalf, even though the Son dies:

"the words “it was credited to him” were written not only for Abraham, but also for us, to whom righteousness will be credited—for us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." Romans 4:23-24​

This truth about justification by faith apart from works is exactly why there is a division between Catholics and Protesters. The truth that a person is declared righteous (made righteous) solely on the basis of faith has eluded the Catholic church for centuries, right up to this day. Luther received this revelation right from the scriptures themselves, and in protest left the Catholic church.

 

[theefaith]

In Luke 7:50 Jesus did not tell the women to go be baptized. He told her she was saved by her faith. You will have to ask Jesus why he didn't tell her to be baptized.
Abraham was made righteous by his faith. No mention of him being baptized. If you add anything to faith for salvation its not just faith any longer.

baptism is not in effect until the death of Christ

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Refers to the grace baptism

how do we put in Christ?

How do we get born again?

Stay on point.
Which sacrament MADE Abraham righteous?
Circumcision? Baptism? Communion?

 

[theefaith]

I realize that certain man made denominations believe that. I can tell you if I had been saved by faith and I had an opportunity to publicly pronounce my salvation and faith by having Jesus Christ baptize me in water I would have raced to be in line. This does not tell us that water baptism is required for salvation. Many travel across the country today to be baptized by the Duck Dynasty star Phil Robertson. I do not understand this. Not saying it's necessary wrong but it certainly does not finish your salvation. Jesus already did that.

the Bible admits of no denominations only only true church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18 Jn 16:13 with the same mission ministry power and authority as Christ Jn 20:21-23

baptism begins salvation by justification then a life of sanctification then at the hour of death salvation matt 24:13

 

[theefaith]

My fear is that many who share your beliefs fail to realize the significance of the cross. They point to scripture prior to the cross. They point to scripture prior to the revelation to Paul by Jesus. They feel Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was not enough. Brother, we just have to realize we do not agree on this matter. I pray we both understand and serve our Lord according to his will. I hope we fellowship in Heaven one day soon when our thoughts and understandings are in agreement.

Oh no on the contrary the passion blood and death of Christ are the source of grace merited by Christ on the cross but applied to our souls in faith and baptism and the sacraments Jn 1:16-17

 

[theefaith]

Each has it's purpose and value. But none make you righteous as a reward for good work. That happens by having faith in the promise of God, all by itself, apart from the merit of works. Just as it happened for Abraham, our example. And so it is for us, too, who believe in God's promise of a Son who will inherit the blessing on our behalf, even though the Son dies:

"the words “it was credited to him” were written not only for Abraham, but also for us, to whom righteousness will be credited—for us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." Romans 4:23-24​

This truth about justification by faith apart from works is exactly why there is a division between Catholics and Protesters. The truth that a person is declared righteous (made righteous) solely on the basis of faith has eluded the Catholic church for centuries, right up to this day. Luther received this revelation right from the scriptures themselves, and in protest left the Catholic church.

And luther demanded a council to settle it and they condemned all his doctrines
“If a man say you may be justified by faith alone, let him be anathema “!

if they left the church they left Christ
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4

where does it say in “faith alone” we died with Christ or by “faith alone” we put on Christ or by “faith alone” are in the new covenant church??????

 

[theefaith]

Stay on point.
Which sacrament MADE Abraham righteous?
Circumcision? Baptism? Communion?

Abraham was not in the new covenant

Heb 9:16
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes there are many evidences of a follower of Christ but those things are not a check list he or she must perform in order to obtain salvation. We are told over and over again that our salvation is by faith, a gift from God. You are saved by faith and then because of your "new man" your works out of love for your savior are evident. Your walk in faith does not start before you are saved, it starts after you are saved. The fruits of the Holy Spirit are evidence of your salvation. This is not difficult to understand. By Faith you are saved and you become a new person no longer seeking to satisfy the flesh but the Spirit which indwells you at the moment you are saved by faith. Many who are saved desire to be baptized, read the scriptures, have a active prayer life, witness and most of all love they neighbor. You do not perform a check list of things (works) to have salvation.

So do you think that Acts 2:38 and the Sheep and the Goats are kind of like suggestions. I can go that route....

The Jews would have the Ten Suggestions.....

The eternal fiery punishment would be a neighborhood barbeque.

Well, and Heaven, they were just daydreaming, kind of like a short trip to the Ritz cause there is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Philip James]

Water baptism and Communion are ordinances not means of salvation

Hello TEXBOW,

Do you think our Lord gave us powerless ordinances?

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes there are many evidences of a follower of Christ but those things are not a check list he or she must perform in order to obtain salvation. We are told over and over again that our salvation is by faith, a gift from God. You are saved by faith and then because of your "new man" your works out of love for your savior are evident. Your walk in faith does not start before you are saved, it starts after you are saved. The fruits of the Holy Spirit are evidence of your salvation. This is not difficult to understand. By Faith you are saved and you become a new person no longer seeking to satisfy the flesh but the Spirit which indwells you at the moment you are saved by faith. Many who are saved desire to be baptized, read the scriptures, have a active prayer life, witness and most of all love they neighbor. You do not perform a check list of things (works) to have salvation.

Yes Acts 2:38 and chapter 6 of John are not hard to understand. Are you having troubles puppy?
If you want to start your own religion at least use a little imagination. You could name it after yourself and use the Fisherman's Guide instead of the Bible. "All I got to do is bait this hook and I am saved! I have auto-cast on this rod and reel so I don't have to do any work."

You argue with yourself and God and the scriptures and talk in circles and you expect me to take you seriously? You are rebellious against God and the scriptures. Why waste your time if you are not going to take it seriously? I find humor in how people expect God to keep the promise of our Heavenly reward specific but have no concern for the specifics of the scriptures. And it is a very dangerous path that you take.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Believe that Yeshua is the Son of God...God...and our Savior

Acts 2:38

John chapter 6

Be good and do good.

You do these things and Heaven is yours. Play Russian Roulette with the scriptures.....one in six clicks. Then in the end on top of everything you have to answer for preaching a false Gospel.

Why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? You may hear that on Judgment Day.

 

[Philip James]

He's talking about this...

"to whom God credits righteousness apart from works" Romans 4:6​

A man is made righteous entirely on the basis of faith, apart from the merit of works.
This is the truth that has eluded millions of Catholics through the centuries.

Hello Ferris,

Without faith, everything is worthless..

But as to what is eluding you, I dont think I can say it better than St. James:

Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.

Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Philip James]

Why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? You may hear that on Judgment Day.

Ah, and which of us does not long to hear 'well done good and faithful servant'...

But I think for me it'll be more like..

'what were you thinking! You doofus... Yeah ya scraped in...

 

[Grailhunter]

Ah, and which of us does not long to hear 'well done good and faithful servant'...

But I think for me it'll be more like..

'what were you thinking! You doofus... Yeah ya scraped in...

Ya know I don't think your "average" Christian is going to have any troubles on Judgment Day and most are not biblical scholars.
Faith + repentance + baptism + communion....they may not exactly know what does what.....just like the early Christians they heard the Word and did as they were instructed. These people go to church and they are told what to do and they do it and they believe.

Christianity....salvation was designed for us....and all of our flaws. Our faith in Christ qualifies us for the saving Grace of Christ and that blood that covers our sins. So we repent and ask forgiveness as we go along and as we walk with Christ we do our best to be good and do good. Judgment Day will be a celebration. So give yourself some credit there buddy.

Last Sunday I was in the parking lot of a Baptist church that had been taken over by Calvinists. I am behaving myself....
I am talking with a group and the leader of the bunch is giving me all these cult quotes. And I am just smiling and nodding my head until He goes on to explain that without being under the control of God we could never be saved because we are dirty filthy rags.
So I replied, So God picks out some dirty filthy rags and makes them good? So I told them that I do not subscribe to the dirty rags analogies. We are dealing with a perfect God that is the definition of good. And that God has a special interest, focus and love of us. Unless He prefers evil, there has to be some good in us.

One of the ladies there asked how I could have such confidence? I said, Because I am not a robot.

 

[Philip James]

One of the ladies there asked how I could have such confidence? I

God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good. Evening came, and morning followed - the sixth day.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hello Ferris,

Without faith, everything is worthless..

But as to what is eluding you, I dont think I can say it better than St. James:

Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.

Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?

Pax et Bonum!

We Protestants know this.
This is not Paul's argument.
James is making another different argument about faith and works.

Paul: A man is MADE righteous by faith apart from works.
James: A man is SHOWN to be righteous by works.

See the difference?
Catholics think James is saying a man is MADE righteous by works. And worse that that, over and over! The Catholic is never at rest. He is always working to be justified (made righteous) before God.

 

[Ezra]

What utter rubbish!

pretty much

 

[Ezra]

Some people do not understand

it appears that neither do you

 

[Ezra]

I am not a Jehovah's Witness.

then do tell what you are this is strange fire

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Abraham was not in the new covenant

Heb 9:16
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

He entered into the eternal covenant (Hebrews 13:20) by faith apart from works (Romans 4:6).
Paul says we are justified the same way Abraham was justified—by faith apart from works.
But if you are sure he performed some kind of work—baptism, circumcision, communion, whatever—in order to be made righteous in God's sight give us chapter and verse that says that. The work he did after he was made righteous by faith was the sign of the righteousness he got by faith. His work was not the procurer of it. But Catholic's insist that your work is what makes you righteous. Abraham did no work to be made righteous.