Christ's sinless Head with a sinful body?

[Peterlag]

I went back in this thread just to make sure I didn't miss anything of yours. There is only post I missed before you veered off into your Oneness or created christ stuff.

At first I thought you were agreeing with the teaching that those in Christ Jesus cannot be lusting and sinning. Until I learned you were only speaking of the delusion, that those 'in Christ' are 'declared clean' and no longer condemned while still lusting and sinning.

So, at the first you had me fooled, and I thought I was agreeing with a fellow Christian saint in Christ Jesus. It's called the deception of words, that the devil employs to sound like the truth, only to turn it into a lie.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;

This is how someone lies while sounding like the truth. They always leave out key words. Such as we cannot sin, nor are we sinning while in Christ Jesus...because are sinning is no longer condemned. Or as others like to say, Christ does not 'see' the sinning. Or, at least not like the sinning of unbelievers.

It's basically the false christ and unjust judge, that has respect of persons towards them 'in him' and them 'not in him'. He condemns the unbelievers sinning outside him, but not the believers sinning done in him.

It's all self-contradictory anyway. Because the christ and god of this world that does not condemn sinning, doesn't condemn it in anyone, including atheists that say there is no God nor god. In fact, he loves all men's sinning and applauds it in the face of the Lord.

The true Christ Jesus is the exact opposite. He condemns all sinning of angels and men without respect of persons. And those in Him not sinning in spirit nor flesh, are honored by Him before the Father.


I missed this post where you go off the deep end and state plainly what some other Christians teach, that there is no limit to sinning at all unto the grave, because they are 'already forgiven' and 'no more condemned'. It openly ministers more and more sinning to the believers.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

In the Bible repented sins and trespasses of the past are forgiven and we are no more condemned by God for those works which have done without God and the faith of Jesus Christ.

And that only remains so while continuing pure of heart and blameless in life. If we do sin after such a pure conversion in Christ Jesus, then we must repent and come to Jesus with godly sorrow to be forgiven and reconciled to God as an obedient son, and no more a bastardized sinner of the devil.

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:




No, it's because I'm not embedded in your delusional imagination, while walking in your christ and after the flesh.

My Christ from the Bible does not have any disobedient members sinning spiritually nor bodily.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I'm only walking in your christ, if I repent of God's righteousness and return to my old sinning days.

I see it this way...

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If you're not going to address any of my arguments and maybe even show some error in them, then I'm not going to participate in a one-sided dialogue with yourself



Nor am I going to be led down an endless road of responding to more of your points to no purpose.

Psalm 51:5 ( among many other verses) serves the purpose of disproving YOUR VIEW: that we are not born in sin and innocent. It is a fundamental Christian doctrine that we are born in sin!
You don't understand some basic Christian doctrines ... and so we won't continue on your road. Bye.

 

[Lizbeth]

True. We are still being saved for resurrection unto life, if we are still living pure in spirit and in truth.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:


Sorry to hear it. My body is pretty clean and strong at present.

No 'but' for the holy saints of pure heart and life.

However, if we do sin, then the Spirit can convict us and draw us back to God to repent and be reconciled to Him.

If we willfully resist the Spirit to keep sinning unto the grave, then we have no Advocate nor hope like all unrepentant sinners of the world.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

There is sinning unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


True. Neither named nor done.


Sin not big, only sin small?

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Only those seeking to be gods unto themselves, begin judging which sins are big or small.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

We have no right with God to choose what is good and evil for ourselves.



God longsuffers by mercy for men to repent. Not for sons that have repented.

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

God doesn't suffer any sinning in His dear Son's body. Neither does the Son. If we choose to sin and be friendly members of the world, that's our choice. But, God doesn't have to put up with it in His kingdom.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?


Not if we know and care about them from the heart. Especially not if we can do something about it.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I'm not one of the 'we humans' I used to be. Now I'm a Jesus human.

Not if we are washed clean in Jesus blood.

In Christ Jesus, there are no more secret sins, only light.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

If we allow lust back in our hearts, then we can repent and be washed clean.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever



You don't know what that word means, not being one.

Most sinners don't want to meet saints with a perfect heart and blameless life toward God. That goes double for sinners that have made a doctrine of justified sinning to soothe their conscience with.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Sinners are not the weak. They are the dead.


Sins and trespasses are not shortcomings and weakness. They are fallings and death.


We take the holy ground with a holy heart and life. We therefore battle against the temptations of the devil and sin not, in order to stand our holy ground.

Unrepented sinners are trespassers on holy ground. Until the grave.


True. The trials of our faith through all temptations and tribulations without sinning, make us strong in the body of the Lord.

Falling to temptation to sin with the devil make us aliens to the body of the Lord.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


True. So long as we remain butterflies and not make ourselves wasps.


Not in Jesus' gospel. It's repent and yes to Jesus at all times from here on out.

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Lusting back to repented sinning is already going back to sinning, so far as Jesus is concerned:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Granted, you do have a decent Christian religion for yourself, and no doubt do good as other religions of man, but it's just not the pure religion of Jesus Christ found in the Bible.

No person on earth while sinning with the devil is now in the pure and holy and sin-free body of the sinless Head Christ Jesus.

Blood-washed saints can still have faults. "Confess your faults one to another." "We offend in many ways all." Something humbling in that. But no believer should be going around committing adultery, robbing banks, or killing people, etc.

 

[Ghada]

You think I left the subject matter when I started to comment on who the Christ is. But I did not. If we are going to walk in him then it seems logical that we should first understand who Christ is. We are not walking in God.

Nope. Who Christ is is holy, and them walking in Him must be holy, for He is holy. That's simple. We either repent to do so or we don't.

Arguments about the Godhead do not affect that because the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One.

It only matters of a created christ is taught, who is not even an holy angel, but a lying spirit.

And so, I responded to the only post I missed and argued against your error of thinking any man can be without sin 'in Christ', while sinning with the flesh.

 

[Ghada]

I see it this way...

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature.

This is true. Brand new purified heart and spirit, with all things passed away and all things now of God.

In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us.

I used to believe the old sin nature was replace by the new divine nature, but there is no sin nature imparted into babes by Christ.

The doctrine of men coming into the world darkened by lust and sin from conception, is a lie of the god of this world against Christ, that wants men to blame God for making men that way, and is therefore the tempter of man to sin.

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ.

No the key even is repenting of our sins and trespasses, so that Christ and pay for and wash us clean from our old sins.

No man was saved at the cross, nor during the burial, and not until calling Him Lord after His resurrection. (The first was Mary)

This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

True.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.

After repenting of sins and trespasses. No man is given the faith of Jesus with a new heart without first repenting of dead works.

The gospel message is repent and be converted and forgiven of past sins. It's not believe and be converted and forgiven, with some repentance following.

And it certainly isn't being forgiven of any present and future sinning.

a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology.

The only shock (though waning) is when people persist in ascribing things to me, I've never said, nor do they have the decency to at least quote what they believe says it.

I've given up looking for that, since even after rebuking it, many like you still do it.

There is no old vs new nature in Christ Jesus, but only the same old sinner turning over a new leaf, to sin less in their own Christian religion. It's not the pure religion of Jesus Christ with repentance of all sinning from the heart, and a whole new heart, spirit, and life in Christ Jesus.

Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature.

Very true. It's called sinners saved by grace, born with a sin nature, and so sinning from cradle to grave. Only less sinning than before after their 'religious conversion'. That's the template for most all religions of man on earth, other than Satanism I suppose.

They believe they have two natures.

There are some that do so. What they are acknowledging is they are Romans 7 double hearted in the faith. Many claim the 'no more condemnation' of Romans 8, which is only for those now walking after the Spirit in Christ, and no more walking after the flesh with the devil.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives.

They don't necessarily say they are alive to sin, but only say they are still sinning 'from time to time', but alive to Christ.

Their 'dead to sin' time has only expanded since unrepented religious conversion, while their 'alive to Christ' time is more often.

It's the wretched (frustrating as you say) double hearted Christian religion, for them that repent not first, and only believe unto salvation. (Saved by brace through faith alone and apart from any works they now do)

When you say the body is not saved nor made new, do you mean the flesh alone, or the life we now life with the same old body? I say the life of our body is also cleaned with the spirit and made new. The old man crucified on our own cross for Jesus sake, is the old inner and outer man, not just the inner spirit, while the life remains sinful.

 

[Ghada]

I see it this way...

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives.

Now that we appear to agree in doctrine, let's see if we agree in practice. (It's not the doctrine alone that justifies us, but doing the word of truth.)


The pure religion of Jesus is the heart, spirit, and life we now live is purified, with all things now being holy and of God. Not just the spirit of the old inner man, but also the life of the old outer man is cleansed thoroughly by the blood of Jesus, and passed away.

I.e. when you say you are no more a sinner, being now in Christ Jesus. Does that men you are not sinning and trespassing? You are not doing any unrighteous works of the flesh. Or do you just doctrinally claim inner purity, while in practice the body still lives unrighteously?

Believing and loving God in the mind only, so as to claim a doctrinal inner purity, is not doing the truth of loving God in deeds and holy life.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

It is both my inner spirit and outer life that is cleansed at once when repenting of all sinning, and by His Spirit we keep our heart and life clean.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no such thing with God as unclean living from a clean heart.

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

[Wick Stick]

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whenever confronted with the Bible fact that Jesus Christ saves and takes away the sins of the world from the hearts and lives of His people, and that there is no sin in Him, some Christians insist that only applies to Jesus Christ Himself.

They say, (not me, but I speak as a sinner man), that He is the only man on earth having no sin in Him, but that all of His people still have sin in them, and continue sinning in this life unto the death.

Is Jesus Christ the Head sinless with His own body full of sin? God forbid. Is the sinless Head separated by sin from His own body? God forbid.

2 Peter chapter 2 addresses the "spots" and "blemishes" within the congregation:

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

It would appear that they get purged.

 

[Peterlag]

This is true. Brand new purified heart and spirit, with all things passed away and all things now of God.


I used to believe the old sin nature was replace by the new divine nature, but there is no sin nature imparted into babes by Christ.

The doctrine of men coming into the world darkened by lust and sin from conception, is a lie of the god of this world against Christ, that wants men to blame God for making men that way, and is therefore the tempter of man to sin.


No the key even is repenting of our sins and trespasses, so that Christ and pay for and wash us clean from our old sins.

No man was saved at the cross, nor during the burial, and not until calling Him Lord after His resurrection. (The first was Mary)



True.

After repenting of sins and trespasses. No man is given the faith of Jesus with a new heart without first repenting of dead works.

The gospel message is repent and be converted and forgiven of past sins. It's not believe and be converted and forgiven, with some repentance following.

And it certainly isn't being forgiven of any present and future sinning.


The only shock (though waning) is when people persist in ascribing things to me, I've never said, nor do they have the decency to at least quote what they believe says it.

I've given up looking for that, since even after rebuking it, many like you still do it.

There is no old vs new nature in Christ Jesus, but only the same old sinner turning over a new leaf, to sin less in their own Christian religion. It's not the pure religion of Jesus Christ with repentance of all sinning from the heart, and a whole new heart, spirit, and life in Christ Jesus.

Very true. It's called sinners saved by grace, born with a sin nature, and so sinning from cradle to grave. Only less sinning than before after their 'religious conversion'. That's the template for most all religions of man on earth, other than Satanism I suppose.


There are some that do so. What they are acknowledging is they are Romans 7 double hearted in the faith. Many claim the 'no more condemnation' of Romans 8, which is only for those now walking after the Spirit in Christ, and no more walking after the flesh with the devil.


They don't necessarily say they are alive to sin, but only say they are still sinning 'from time to time', but alive to Christ.

Their 'dead to sin' time has only expanded since unrepented religious conversion, while their 'alive to Christ' time is more often.

It's the wretched (frustrating as you say) double hearted Christian religion, for them that repent not first, and only believe unto salvation. (Saved by brace through faith alone and apart from any works they now do)

When you say the body is not saved nor made new, do you mean the flesh alone, or the life we now life with the same old body? I say the life of our body is also cleaned with the spirit and made new. The old man crucified on our own cross for Jesus sake, is the old inner and outer man, not just the inner spirit, while the life remains sinful.

Romans 10:9-10 does not say anything about repenting of our sins and trespasses so that Christ can pay for and wash us clean from our old sins. See below...

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Ghada]

Psalm 51:5 ( among many other verses) serves the purpose of disproving YOUR VIEW: that we are not born in sin and innocent.

No, it only proves you read all verses with your cherished sin-justifying doctrine.

Since Adam transgressed, and repented not, then sin entered the world, so that all men have been conceived and born into a sinful world.

Which is still not an excuse for sinning, because Jesus was born into the same wicked world with the same flesh and blood of all men.

And though He was also tempted like Adam and all men, unlike Adam and all men, He sinned not.

And now, unlike Adam and all other men, those repenting of their sinning, are born wholly anew in Christ and sin not with Him, though still tempted like all men.

This is the gospel I preach, that I see in the Bible. I reject your sin-cursed gospel for sinners saved by believing it alone, apart from their works still sinning like all other sinners of the world.

It is a fundamental Christian doctrine that we are born in sin!

Your fundamental doctrine, that keeps you sinning to the grave, and justifying it by blaming Christ for making you that way.

You don't understand some basic Christian doctrines ...

I understand you Christian doctrines perfectly, and better than you, because I am honest about they do to Christians practicing it.

and so we won't continue on your road. Bye.

That's why you get peeved and say good bye. (For now) It's because your conscience depends on your doctrine alone, not the life you live.

 

[Peterlag]

Nope. Who Christ is is holy, and them walking in Him must be holy, for He is holy. That's simple. We either repent to do so or we don't.

Arguments about the Godhead do not affect that because the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One.

It only matters of a created christ is taught, who is not even an holy angel, but a lying spirit.

And so, I responded to the only post I missed and argued against your error of thinking any man can be without sin 'in Christ', while sinning with the flesh.

I did not write the book...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[Ghada]

Blood-washed saints can still have faults. "Confess your faults one to another." "We offend in many ways all." Something humbling in that. But no believer should be going around committing adultery, robbing banks, or killing people, etc.

Exactly. We all 'can' have faults, and 'if' we do so, we ought confess them. But we are not all having faults, because it's not when we sin, but only if. Declaring all Christians do have faults and are all to be faulted, is the error of sinful Christianity.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

No one is teaching no more possibly able to sin nor commit faults, which is the future reward of inheritance in resurrection unto life.

It's the doctrine of always doing and having sins and faults, that is the 'great' lie against the good news and power of Jesus Christ. And it is purposely used to justify continued sinning and faults without cease.

It denies the Bible possibility and promise to become faultless, without falling at any time in life.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Many Christians do not believe the words, nor take God at His word, based solely upon their own sinful living and faults. Which is one thing, but others go on to justify it and teach their own faulty living as the only possible Christian living on earth.

They make themselves The Example for all Christians, and they teach their own lives as the gospel for all Christians.

 

[Ghada]

2 Peter chapter 2 addresses the "spots" and "blemishes" within the congregation:

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

It would appear that they get purged.

Exactly. We either repent of sinning with a whole heart of godly sorrow, so as to now be blameless and spotless in spirit and life, or we are the tares to be separated from the congregation at the judgement and burned with the rest of the unrepentant wicked.

God is not mocked, and He is not a respecter of persons based upon 'Christian profession.'

And in the meantime, we are to mark them and not glad hand them as brothers and sisters, and be made partakers of their sins. But we still love them 'from afar', that perhaps they may be drawn of Christ unto repentance and their own salvation and deliverance.

 

[Ghada]

Romans 10:9-10 does not say anything about repenting of our sins and trespasses so that Christ can pay for and wash us clean from our old sins. See below...

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

No, but Jesus and Peter and Paul elsewhere make it know such pure heart faith unto righteousness, is only given by God that do repent of all the dead works first.

And so, you don't take all the Bible together, in order to preach an isolated gospel of your own. You preach a gospel of believing only unto salvation, with some repentance following. Or, in your case, with no repentance at all needed: 1.) You can have all the sin you want while you walk in your old man dead flesh.

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption:

It also answers the question, and proves all your talk about 'not sinning' and not 'being sinners' while 'in Christ', is just word play.

Your real doctrine is no man is 'judged' a sinner, and 'not condemned' for sinning 'in Christ', while still doing unrighteousness with the body. It's just a seductive way of teaching spiritual purity with outward filthiness.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And also, your doctrine of not 'saving the flesh', or the flesh not being 'made spiritual', is just a way of saying not ceasing to continue sinning in life. It's just another even more seductive way of saying the life of the body, remains sinful. It's more subtle a lie, because it does first speak the truth, that the body itself is not saved nor made wholly new, until the resurrection of the dead. But including the life lived as being the body itself, is the lie.

It's the same subtly of the serpent to first preach the truth of what God said, "Ye hall freely eat...", and then turn it into a lie of not excluding any tree in the garden.

The soul and the life are both forgiven, washed clean, and saved. A soul saved without our living saved, is just more hypocritical inward religion, that is not the life lived. Our life we live is the express image of our soul, and our soul is seen and made certainly known by our life.

"I know I still do bad things, but my heart is still good" is only for foolish children and aging liberals.

When our works are judged righteously by the Father, it is the judgment of our souls.

 

[Wick Stick]

Exactly. We either repent of sinning with a whole heart of godly sorrow, so as to now be blameless and spotless in spirit and life, or we are the tares to be separated from the congregation at the judgement and burned with the rest of the unrepentant wicked.

God is not mocked, and He is not a respecter of persons based upon 'Christian profession.'

And in the meantime, we are to mark them and not glad hand them as brothers and sisters, and be made partakers of their sins. But we still love them 'from afar', that perhaps they may be drawn of Christ unto repentance and their own salvation and deliverance.

It's an interesting verse with regards to the afterlife. I believe that "mist of darkness" or "outer darkness" is a part of the Greeks' conception of Hades - that portion of the underworld where the forgotten eventually wander off into non-existence.

There are also references to Tartarus, and the Gates of Hell... I start to wonder just how credulous the Jews were of the Greek conception of the underworld/afterlife.

 

[Ghada]

I did not write the book...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

I've already seen the secret lie of your doctrine. You say the words in spirit only, but not in practice.

So long as anyone puts faith first, and separates being 'in Christ' from repentance of dead works, then it's just sip-service to the Bible and airy speeches.

Some Christians think we can actually justify ourselves while still doing unrepented works of the flesh, and guarantee our inheritance in heaven after the grave, by doctrine alone.

It's the same self-deception of believing we are saved by our own faith alone, no matter how we are living at the time.

I.e. so long as we believe it, it must be true. And so long as we can make a doctrine to agree with it, it makes it even more true.

Some Christians are only preaching a gospel according to their own faith and life. They're just teaching how they believe and live as Christians, not what the Bible commands to everyone naming the name of Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

No, but Jesus and Peter and Paul elsewhere make it know such pure heart faith unto righteousness, is only given by God that do repent of all the dead works first.

And so, you don't take all the Bible together, in order to preach an isolated gospel of your own. You preach a gospel of believing only unto salvation, with some repentance following. Or, in your case, with no repentance at all needed: 1.) You can have all the sin you want while you walk in your old man dead flesh.

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption:

It also answers the question, and proves all your talk about 'not sinning' and not 'being sinners' while 'in Christ', is just word play.

Your real doctrine is no man is 'judged' a sinner, and 'not condemned' for sinning 'in Christ', while still doing unrighteousness with the body. It's just a seductive way of teaching spiritual purity with outward filthiness.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And also, your doctrine of not 'saving the flesh', or the flesh not being 'made spiritual', is just a way of saying not ceasing to continue sinning in life. It's just another even more seductive way of saying the life of the body, remains sinful. It's more subtle a lie, because it does first speak the truth, that the body itself is not saved nor made wholly new, until the resurrection of the dead. But including the life lived as being the body itself, is the lie.

It's the same subtly of the serpent to first preach the truth of what God said, "Ye hall freely eat...", and then turn it into a lie of not excluding any tree in the garden.

The soul and the life are both forgiven, washed clean, and saved. A soul saved without our living saved, is just more hypocritical inward religion, that is not the life lived. Our life we live is the express image of our soul, and our soul is seen and made certainly known by our life.

"I know I still do bad things, but my heart is still good" is only for foolish children and aging liberals.

When our works are judged righteously by the Father, it is the judgment of our souls.

And so, you don't take all the Bible together, in order to preach an isolated gospel of your own.

Okay may I have the verse from the Epistles that says I need to repent my sins to be saved?

 

[Peterlag]

I've already seen the secret lie of your doctrine. You say the words in spirit only, but not in practice.

So long as anyone puts faith first, and separates being 'in Christ' from repentance of dead works, then it's just sip-service to the Bible and airy speeches.

Some Christians think we can actually justify ourselves while still doing unrepented works of the flesh, and guarantee our inheritance in heaven after the grave, by doctrine alone.

It's the same self-deception of believing we are saved by our own faith alone, no matter how we are living at the time.

I.e. so long as we believe it, it must be true. And so long as we can make a doctrine to agree with it, it makes it even more true.

Some Christians are only preaching a gospel according to their own faith and life. They're just teaching how they believe and live as Christians, not what the Bible commands to everyone naming the name of Christ.

I'm now convinced you have no idea what being in Christ is or you would not ask and keep asking how I walk in the flesh at the same time I'm walking in the spirit.

 

[Ghada]

It's an interesting verse with regards to the afterlife. I believe that "mist of darkness" or "outer darkness" is a part of the Greeks' conception of Hades - that portion of the underworld where the forgotten eventually wander off into non-existence.

The danger is to think God in the Bible is confirming the myths of man, instead of correcting them in the truth.

When God speaks of Hades, He is not talking of crossing the river of forgetfulness, but is revealing the chains of hell with full remembrance.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

There are also references to Tartarus, and the Gates of Hell... I start to wonder just how credulous the Jews were of the Greek conception of the underworld/afterlife.

Many Jews incorporated some of Hellenistic myth and philosophy. Many Jew of old in their own right became like later Greeks and Romans, with their own Semitic myths and philosophies corrupting the oracles of God.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

The point is not how Jews or Greeks conceive such things between themselves, but only what God reveals the truth of in the Bible.

It's not wrong to be aware of the myths, philosophies, and pagan religions of man. It's only wrong to think God in the Bible is confirming one or the other, as though being inspired by man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The truth is that Lucifer was the inspirer for the old pagan muses, for the purpose of muddying the waters of the true record and doctrine of God since the days of Adam and Eve. That's why their are many similarities with the revelation of the Bible, but always 'off' to one degree or another.

The sole purpose is to divert people into believing the Bible is just another 'grand and great' book of wisdom, religion, myth, and revelation among the many books of men.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Many will openly say the Bible is 'one' of the greatest books of all history and man, but only believers from the heart in the God of the Bible, know it is the one and only Book of God on earth.

All other books are judged by the Bible. The Bible is not judged by any other book, Because the Bible is not another book of man among many.

Any who praise the Bible as even the greatest book on earth, yet does not believe it is the Book of God, is only paying lip service to what is obvious.

 

[Wick Stick]

And so, you don't take all the Bible together, in order to preach an isolated gospel of your own.

Okay may I have the verse from the Epistles that says I need to repent my sins to be saved?

2Co 7:10
Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation

2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Ghada]

And so, you don't take all the Bible together, in order to preach an isolated gospel of your own.

Okay may I have the verse from the Epistles that says I need to repent my sins to be saved?

As I said, you isolate a doctrine for yourself, by referring to passages speaking of salvation and faith, without including the passages of repenting first unto salvation.

Jesus and Peter and Paul elsewhere make it know such pure heart faith unto righteousness, is only given by God that do repent of all the dead works first.

If you're not going to believe all passages together, then you're not going to believe all the Bible together. You just preach your own gospel from your own manner of life, and try to justify yourself with part of the Bible.

God does not have to say "Repent, and believe..." everywhere in the gospel, when He speaks of His forgiveness of sin to the saving of the soul.

God does not play to unbelievers' demands, but expects the believer in all His words to have sense enough to take them all together into our hearts.

Even if God were to make sure we remember that repentance of dead works is unto faith and salvation of God, every time He speaks of having faith toward to be saved, the unbelievers would still not be persuaded to repent, because they do not care to do so.

Why not? Because repentance is an act we either do or don't do from the heart. And if the heart is hard against repenting of sinning against God, then it doesn't matter what we believe with the mind.

You believe your own gospel of believing alone unto salvation, without repenting of your own dead works. And so you preach your own life of unrepented dead works.

Fine by me. I'm a live and let live Christian. I preach the life God commands all of us to live in Christ Jesus, which only begins with repenting of all our sins and trespasses first.

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.