Clerical Celibacy

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rockytopva

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Clerical Celibacy
And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. - Matthew 8:14

Well, Peter is suppose to be the first Pope... And he was a married man! I wonder what scriptural grounds religions use to justify celibacy?

From the news this morning I read of another Catholic priest caught with a boy...

W. Jeffrey Paulish, Catholic Priest, Caught With Pantless 15-Year-Old In Pennsylvania: Police

n-JEFFREY-PAULISH-large.jpg


It seems like to me that brother could have used a godly wife to keep him on the straight and the narrow! As a matter of fact... According to I Timothy 3:1-5 (KJV), A Bishop is suppose to have a wife and kids as well!

1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) -1 Timothy 3
 

This Vale Of Tears

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Boy is this a target rich environment!

1. Please prove that Peter being married binds the church from ever restricting marriage, especially since most of the apostles were unmarried and Paul promoted the benefits of being single in ministry.

2. Please prove that a priest abusing a child happened because of priest celibacy in light of the fact that most child abusers are not celibate men

3. Please prove that a bishop is "supposed to have a wife and kids" as in this being a requirement.

4. Please prove that it's any of your business what the Catholic Church requires of its priests since you are not and never will be Catholic.

Good luck with all that.
 
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rockytopva

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This Vale Of Tears said:
Boy is this a target rich environment!

1. Please prove that Peter being married binds the church from ever restricting marriage, especially since most of the apostles were unmarried and Paul promoted the benefits of being single in ministry.

2. Please prove that a priest abusing a child happened because of priest celibacy in light of the fact that most child abusers are not celibate men

3. Please prove that a bishop is "supposed to have a wife and kids" as in this being a requirement.

4. Please prove that it's any of your business what the Catholic Church requires of its priests since you are not and never will be Catholic.

Good luck with all that.
I say there my good man... Whenever a Christian goes off the deep end like that it makes the whole lot look bad. As far as the questions scriptural references were provided.

Proof that Peter was married... And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. - Matthew 8:14

Proof that Bishops need to be married and have rule over their own house...
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) -1 Timothy 3

--------------------------------------------------------------

I believe that having the right spirit is paramount. Here is the Dr Paul Osteen describing the change that is suppose to occur within the heart. When that change happens then I believe that a person has the power to live a good Christian life... But if that change did not happen then I believe that, married or no, evil often ensures....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ8v8qBODRo
 

This Vale Of Tears

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rockytopva said:
I say there my good man... Whenever a Christian goes off the deep end like that it makes the whole lot look bad. As far as the questions scriptural references were provided.

Proof that Peter was married... And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. - Matthew 8:14

Proof that Bishops need to be married and have rule over their own house...
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) -1 Timothy 3
So you got nothing. I never contested that Peter had a wife and you've failed to demonstrate that the passage of scripture you cited forever binds all bishops forever to a requirement to marry. You furthermore failed to demonstrate that there's a causal link between the Catholic celibacy discipline and child abuse or that any of this is your business since it's not your religion. So I end as I began. You got nothing.

Besides which, since this thread singles out the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, it's in violation of this forums rules and I'm going to report it forthwith.
 

rockytopva

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This Vale Of Tears said:
So you got nothing. I never contested that Peter had a wife and you've failed to demonstrate that the passage of scripture you cited forever binds all bishops forever to a requirement to marry. You furthermore failed to demonstrate that there's a causal link between the Catholic celibacy discipline and child abuse or that any of this is your business since it's not your religion. So I end as I began. You got nothing.

Besides which, since this thread singles out the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, it's in violation of this forums rules and I'm going to report it forthwith.
Well, you have the authority to do that, as this board is welcomed to Catholic and non Catholic alike.
 

Robertson

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One dire mistake is the idea of Peter being the first Pope. Peter was not a Pope, he was an Apostle. Peter was not a Bishop, he was an Apostle. As we know, our friends the Catholics say that a Pope is a Bishop, a man that is ordained to be the chief bishop over the whole Catholic church. All of their bishops allow this one bishop to govern, and that is fine. But as far as Peter goes, he was the head of the body of the group of 12 men who were ordained apostles by Jesus Christ himself. Jesus was ordained by His Father, which is referred to by Paul as being ordained after the order of Melchisedec. (Hebrews 5:6) If there was to be a man, or a group of men, who wanted to claim any authority that Peter had, they would claim to be apostles, not bishops. Bishops are an office in the hierarchal organization of the church, but not the head. They were to look after the local needs of the churches, not to govern the church as a whole. That was the role of the apostles. This is why the apostles traveled all over the known world, wrote epistles, had revelations, performed miracles, etc. - to support the roles of the local leaders, the bishops, priests, deacons, and so forth. Of course, we are well aware that most would claim there were only 12 apostles and there can be no more (which logic is faulty by the way, since they ordained Matthias to be an apostle after the death of Judas, and some time later Paul became an apostle), so anyone who claims that there are no more apostles also claims that there is no one ordained after the order of Melchisedec to run the church as a whole - which would stop revelation, and we would be in dire straits indeed!

One thing to be careful of is that we often think we can read the Bible and assume we have authority, or assume that it is a complete record of every doing of the church, or that it contains an exact priesthood manual for easy reference on how to govern the church. The epistles by the apostles in authority are letters. Letters written to very specific people for very specific topics. They are by no means an exacting list of the hierarchy of the church and a manual on how to perform your priesthood duties. This is why many have confusion, because they are looking for information that just isn't there. Who has the correct information? Well, the apostles who are ordained by Jesus Christ would be the place to find that.

As far as marriage goes, and again, the Bible isn't a manual on how to get married, what to say, how the ordinance is performed, etc... but we can try to extrapolate what was mentioned for our benefit, but we must be aware that there may be pieces missing. What it does mention about marriage is that it is not good for man to be alone, that a husband and wife should cleave together and be one just as Jesus and His Father are one, and that a bishop should be a man with a wife, one wife to be exact. Nowhere is plural marriage forbidden and thus it was practiced by many. Abraham had his wives and Jacob has his 4 wives. They were greatly blessed as the whole of the house of Israel is based off of these polygamist marriages. All these things are easily found in the scriptures if you search marriage, so do yourself a favor and look them up.

One scripture I will give you, since your topic is specifically about the celibacy of priests - which is not taught in the Bible, but what Vale of Tears calls an inference of scripture, which is dangerous due to the incompleteness of the records - anyway, here is what the record teaches us. Paul warns that there will be some that shall "depart from the faith... FORBIDDING TO MARRY, commanding to abstain from meats...", etc. If a church is teaching you to not get married because somehow this makes your priesthood office less effective, then you know they have departed from the faith, for it is not good for man to be alone.

So what did we learn today? We learned that Peter was not a bishop, he was an apostle. That there were at least 14 men that we ordained to this office, so anyone trying to tell us that there were only 12 has their facts wrong. We learned that Paul was an apostle and since he was not of the original 12 chosen by Jesus, that this body of 12 men was meant to continue when one was killed or left the faith. Matthias was the 13th apostle, chosen to fill the hole left by Judas' death. Anyone who claims that Paul was an apostle, must by default accept that the apostleship would go on and that the church would have apostles governing it forever.
We learned to be careful while reading the Bible. To be aware that everything is not there and to make sure we understand the scriptures in their full context.
We learned that God condones marriage, though he may limit a bishop to having only one wife. We also saw that Paul warns that there will be departures from the faith where people will command others to not get married and for some crazy reason they will tell people to abstain from meats. Sorry vegetarians, but that's what it says!

Finally, after Paul lists the hypocrisy and false doctrines (such as abstaining to marry), he says, "If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained."

Remember these saying brethren! We know true and sound doctrine! And if some church or teachers try to teach you otherwise, you can clearly discern their departure from the faith taught by Jesus and His apostles.
 

Jude Thaddeus

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I say there my good man... Whenever a Christian goes off the deep end like that it makes the whole lot look bad. As far as the questions scriptural references were provided.
So what. It's still discrimination against Catholicism in general. Religious profiling is a form of discrimination similar to racial profiling. The sex scandals was the worst crisis in the history of the Church. We were all shocked and betrayed. The pain cannot be quantified. Scandal I. The public mind has been poisoned into thinking nothing has been done about it. Scandal II.
Frankly, the topic makes me sick.
Proof that Peter was married... And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. - Matthew 8:14
And then what did she do? She got healed and waited on guests. For any 1st century Jew, it is unthinkable for the mother-in-law to serve guests. Heck, it's unthinkable for MY mother-in-law to serve guests in my house. Would your mother-in-law serve guests in your house?
I admit its not an iron-clad argument, of course Peter was married. But it is reasonable and logical to assume Peter was widowed, a man of one wife. "A man of one wife" rules out remarriage after she dies. That's what Paul is talking about. He is not saying bishops have to be married. That's poor eisegesis.
Proof that Bishops need to be married and have rule over their own house...
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) -1 Timothy 3
Paul never taught that being married was a criteria for being a bishop. "that bishops need to be married" is not in scripture. Paul means that if a bishop is married and she dies, he cannot marry again. That's what "husband of one wife" means. It was the practice in the ante-Nicene era and remains the practice today in other rites.

Celibacy was not required of priests until the 11th century, not unheard of before that, and only in the Latin or Roman Rite.
Celibacy is a discipline in one rite out of 23. It is NOT a doctrine, that's why there are exceptions.
Marriage is a sacrament, consecrated virginity is not.

Matt. 22:30 – Jesus explains that in heaven there are no marriages. To bring about Jesus’ kingdom on earth, priests live the heavenly consecration to God by not taking a wife in marriage. This way, priests are able to focus exclusively on the spiritual family, and not have any additional pressures of the biological family (which is for the vocation of marriage). This also makes it easier for priests to be transferred to different parishes where they are most needed without having to worry about the impact of their transfer on wife and children.

1 Cor 7:1 – Paul teaches that it is well for a man not to touch a woman. This is the choice that the Catholic priests of the Roman rite freely make.
more citations followed by a brief exegesis here
 
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Chains Broken

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If celibacy was the cause of child abuse then why are the rates of child abuse an order of magnitude higher in US public schools than they are in Catholic churches?

This happens in schools and churches because child predators seek out positions where they have power over children. Not because being celibate "turned them into a child abuser" somehow. That's like Reddit logic.
 
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rockytopva

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If a priest decides to minister celibate that is a good thing.. As long as he is not tempted away into fornication.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Clerical Celibacy
And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. - Matthew 8:14

Well, Peter is suppose to be the first Pope... And he was a married man! I wonder what scriptural grounds religions use to justify celibacy?

From the news this morning I read of another Catholic priest caught with a boy...

W. Jeffrey Paulish, Catholic Priest, Caught With Pantless 15-Year-Old In Pennsylvania: Police
Sooooo – what do you say about all of the PEOTESTANT ministers who are guilty of molestation??
How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse ...

1 in 10 Young Protestants Have Left a Church Over Abuse

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ught-with-pantless-15-year-old_n_3971522.html
It seems like to me that brother could have used a godly wife to keep him on the straight and the narrow! As a matter of fact... According to I Timothy 3:1-5 (KJV), A Bishop is suppose to have a wife and kids as well!
WRONG.

During Paul’s time, polygamy was very prevalent, especially in the Gentile communities.

Paul is saying that a Bishop can ONLY have ONE wife – not that he MUST have a wife.
 

BreadOfLife

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One dire mistake is the idea of Peter being the first Pope. Peter was not a Pope, he was an Apostle. Peter was not a Bishop, he was an Apostle. As we know, our friends the Catholics say that a Pope is a Bishop, a man that is ordained to be the chief bishop over the whole Catholic church. All of their bishops allow this one bishop to govern, and that is fine. But as far as Peter goes, he was the head of the body of the group of 12 men who were ordained apostles by Jesus Christ himself.
WRONG.
According to the Bible - ALL of the Apostles were Bishops.

In Acts 1, when they all came together to elect a successor for Judas, Peter quotes Scripture by saying:


Acts 1:20
“Let another take his office.”


The Greek word used here for “office” is “Episkopay”, which means Bishopric”.
One scripture I will give you, since your topic is specifically about the celibacy of priests - which is not taught in the Bible, but what Vale of Tears calls an inference of scripture, which is dangerous due to the incompleteness of the records - anyway, here is what the record teaches us. Paul warns that there will be some that shall "depart from the faith... FORBIDDING TO MARRY, commanding to abstain from meats...", etc. If a church is teaching you to not get married because somehow this makes your priesthood office less effective, then you know they have departed from the faith, for it is not good for man to be alone.

So what did we learn today? We learned that Peter was not a bishop, he was an apostle. That there were at least 14 men that we ordained to this office, so anyone trying to tell us that there were only 12 has their facts wrong. We learned that Paul was an apostle and since he was not of the original 12 chosen by Jesus, that this body of 12 men was meant to continue when one was killed or left the faith. Matthias was the 13th apostle, chosen to fill the hole left by Judas' death. Anyone who claims that Paul was an apostle, must by default accept that the apostleship would go on and that the church would have apostles governing it forever.
We learned to be careful while reading the Bible. To be aware that everything is not there and to make sure we understand the scriptures in their full context.
We learned that God condones marriage, though he may limit a bishop to having only one wife. We also saw that Paul warns that there will be departures from the faith where people will command others to not get married and for some crazy reason they will tell people to abstain from meats. Sorry vegetarians, but that's what it says
As for your misunderstanding of who Paul was speaking oif in 1Tim. 4 with regard to “abstaining from certain foods” and “Forbidding to marry” – he is referring to the Gnostic heretics who existed at the time.

The Gnostics forbade ALL marriage, they forbade certain foods, they rejected material possessions as
“evil”. This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church who does neither . . .
 

amigo de christo

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If celibacy was the cause of child abuse then why are the rates of child abuse an order of magnitude higher in US public schools than they are in Catholic churches?

This happens in schools and churches because child predators seek out positions where they have power over children. Not because being celibate "turned them into a child abuser" somehow. That's like Reddit logic.
celibacy is not the problem at all . There are men as paul was who are celibate .
Though tis not a REQUIREMENT either .
the problem was , when they annointed certain kinds of men .
You see when they MADE IT a requirement that was the problem
but not the biggest problem . WHEN they annointed men who were a bit feminine
aka effeminate . THAT was the problem .
cause if you examine the cases of pedophile priests and etc
YOU gonna see the by far overwhelming cases were MEN on BOYS . SAME SEX my friends .
But that is what NO ONE wants to dare talk about . And i mean no one
cause they fear the heck out of that agenda . but it be a fact .
 
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amigo de christo

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If celibacy was the cause of child abuse then why are the rates of child abuse an order of magnitude higher in US public schools than they are in Catholic churches?

This happens in schools and churches because child predators seek out positions where they have power over children. Not because being celibate "turned them into a child abuser" somehow. That's like Reddit logic.
anyone who lives in WILLFULL SIN and etc ought not to be a leader .
Remember the requirements were blameless .
So anyone wanna tell me why more and more churches are promoting homosexuals into minstiry .
Let alone they wont even correct the behavoir .
They wont even remind the churches anymore it is even a sin . And they do this with other sins too .
The churches are tanking my friend . Everyone is running to join as one
under what they now think is love and is of GOD .
ONLY it is of the world . NOT GOD . this is a huge problem . and the RCC
and her protestant daughters are big time guilty of this unity unity false love junk .
 
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Jude Thaddeus

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In late June, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Secretariat of Child and Youth Protection released its audit on clergy sexual abuse that covers the period July 1, 2018 – June 30, 2019.

During this time, there were 37 allegations made by current minors. Eight were substantiated, 7 were unsubstantiated, 6 were unable to be proven, 12 are still being investigated, 3 were referred to religious orders, and 1 was referred to another diocese.

Of the 49,972 members of the clergy (33,628 priests and 16,344 deacons), .07% (37) had an accusation made against them for abusing a minor. However, since only .016% (8) could be substantiated, that means that 99.98% of priests did not have a substantiated accusation made against them.

In other words, clergy sexual abuse is near 0%.

It is hardly surprising that the media are ignoring this story. The only stories about the Catholic Church that they see fit to print or air are those that put the Church in a negative light. That they wallow in dirt cannot be denied.
(that certain members wallow in dirt cannot be denied either)


Had there been a serious uptick in substantiated allegations, it would have been all over the news. In fact, some writers literally got angry that we reported the good news. This tells us everything: Bad news about the Catholic Church is seen as good news in many quarters, and vice versa.

No institution in society, secular or religious, can match the progress that the Catholic Church has achieved.

 
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BreadOfLife

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celibacy is not the problem at all . There are men as paul was who are celibate .
Though tis not a REQUIREMENT either .
the problem was , when they annointed certain kinds of men .
You see when they MADE IT a requirement that was the problem
but not the biggest problem . WHEN they annointed men who were a bit feminine aka effeminate . THAT was the problem .
cause if you examine the cases of pedophile priests and etc
YOU gonna see the by far overwhelming cases were MEN on BOYS . SAME SEX my friends .
But that is what NO ONE wants to dare talk about . And i mean no one
cause they fear the heck out of that agenda . but it be a fact .
Soooo, what's you excuse as a Protestant??
Many
of the molesters are MARRIED MEN - and the problem is more widespread in the Protestant sects . . .


How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse ...

A History of Sex Abuse in the Protestant Imagination

FAQ: Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy - The Doan Law Firm

1 in 10 Young Protestants Have Left a Church Over Abuse

Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
 

amigo de christo

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never said they are more or less guilty . DID I .
exactly my friend . the realm of christendom ,however , has tanked .
And right i am about this very fact .
And it aint just about sexual misconducts either . MEN HAVE DECIEVED us all my friend .
THEY have come within the CAMP to DECIEVE . the problem is
most folks trust in their beloved CAMP WAY TOO MUCH , in their men , their way as being THE WAY
their men as being the MEN of GOD . WHEN IN TRUTH , you all have been decieved . And what i say to the catholic
KNOW WELL i say to the protestant . YOU ALL ARE BEING DECIEVED . an enemy has come from within
and know this , know this , learn it and learn it well ..............THE DEVIL CAN WEAR MORE THAN PRADA my friend
HE and his minstirs can WEAR WOOL . the sooner folks realize this and get in THE BIBLE for themselves
to learn the truth . THE FAR BETTER OFF they are gonna have been and will be .
And before you buy the lie that both the RCC and PROSTENTANT realm has sold
the lie that says THE BIBLE and or learning it for ourselves is the problem ,
KNOW THIS , it was not the BIBLE or learning it for ourselves that ever was the problem .
IT WAS LEARNING it through the realm of DECIEVED LEADERS that was and is and shall be THE PROBLEM .
You all been decieved and big time too . I say that not to condemn , not to hate , BUT OF LOVE . Get in the bible
FOR YOU and i say that to the protestant TOO . BIBLE TIME DUDES .
 
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Jude Thaddeus

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never said they are more or less guilty . DID I .
exactly my friend . the realm of christendom ,however , has tanked .
So has the rate of abuses in the Catholic Church. It's dropped to 0%. That's "tanked" but don't count on the media to tell the facts. Your "church", if you call it that, can't match that record. So stop bellyaching about an outdated problem that you can't fix in your own communities.
It's easy to scream about DECEIVED LEADERS when you have no leaders, no teachers, no pastors, sitting in judgement of everybody that disagrees with your paranoid fundamentalism. You have PRIDE all over your posts.
 
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RedFan

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Paul never taught that being married was a criteria for being a bishop. "that bishops need to be married" is not in scripture. Paul means that if a bishop is married and she dies, he cannot marry again. That's what "husband of one wife" means.
It also means that polygamy is not to be practiced by bishops -- even in any locales where Timothy might visit in which polygamy is common.
 

RedFan

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We learned that Paul was an apostle and since he was not of the original 12 chosen by Jesus, that this body of 12 men was meant to continue when one was killed or left the faith. Matthias was the 13th apostle, chosen to fill the hole left by Judas' death. Anyone who claims that Paul was an apostle, must by default accept that the apostleship would go on and that the church would have apostles governing it forever.
Well, I certainly didn't learn this! I don't doubt Matthias was an "apostle" or that Paul was an "apostle," as he occasionally called himself. But I reject the notion that this means I "must by default accept that the apostleship would go on and that the church would have apostles governing it forever."

I am 100% in support of apostolic succession as a mark of legitimacy in the Church. And I do think Christ intended his Church to be governed by successors to the apostles. It makes perfect sense to me. But inferring this just from Matthias's and Paul's apostleship? Sorry, that's a non sequitur. A successor to Judas in order to preserve the Divine Dozen, and a man struck from his horse and chosen to be apostle to the Gentiles, doesn't get me there.
 
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Aunty Jane

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It also means that polygamy is not to be practiced by bishops -- even in any locales where Timothy might visit in which polygamy is common.
Amazing how things can be read into scripture with no regard to context. Among both Jews and Gentiles polygamy was commonly practiced……something Jesus said was to cease…to revert back to God’s original standard for marriage. (Matt 19:4-5, 8-12)

Singleness was an advantage but Jesus never mandated it. Paul’s counsel for marriage allowed for remarriage if the mate had died. So according to Scripture, there are only two grounds to end a marriage that leaves one free to remarry.…..adultery and death.
Sinful humans were always going to have problems of a sexual nature because it is a natural drive and stronger in some than others. To forbid marriage was asking for trouble. The ridiculous situation now exists where ex-Anglican priests could return to Catholicism and bring their wives with them. How is that possible?

It was not until 1139 C.E. that the Catholic church imposed the celibacy law. Before that, many popes themselves were married…..so go figure.

It was common practice for priests and nuns to engage in sexual relationships and the inevitable pregnancies were covered up and the babies either adopted out or disposed of in a lime pit. I have that on the word of someone who was there and witnessed it. The Bishop would leave his shoes at the door of the nun he had chosen for the night…..the excuse? She was married to the church and he was its representative….

I saw a documentary some time ago where an Australian priest was in jail for pedophilia and the interviewer asked the question about why young boys were targetted more than young girls…his response left me shaking my head…..having sex with young boys was not breaking God’s law because it was only sex with women that was outlawed. How do you deal with that mentality?

Well, I certainly didn't learn this! I don't doubt Matthias was an "apostle" or that Paul was an "apostle," as he occasionally called himself. But I reject the notion that this means I "must by default accept that the apostleship would go on and that the church would have apostles governing it forever."
There are no scriptural grounds for this.…..What Jesus started was imparted to his apostles whom he educated first and told them to educate others. All quoted from the same scripture, which was the only scripture in existence until the canon was released containing what was necessary for Christians to teach and believe.

It was not a product of the RCC as they claim, but God who used the RCC (which was the only recognized and dominant form of Christianity in existence at the time)…yet, not a single word was the product of any Catholic writer. Therefore the Catholic slant on Scripture must give way to the Jewish slant, because every Bible writer was Jewish….like their Messiah. Unless we are familiar with Jewish belief about who “the only true God” is…..what is the condition of the dead……and the Jewish view of the resurrection….we will be misled. Jesus was Jewish, not Catholic….and he taught only from Jewish Scripture.
I am 100% in support of apostolic succession as a mark of legitimacy in the Church. And I do think Christ intended his Church to be governed by successors to the apostles. It makes perfect sense to me.
We must also take into account that the foretold apostasy was already befinning at the close of the first century…..the last apostle John was the remaining impediment to Satan’s “weeds” taking over the church. He had to write his concluding contributions to the inspired Scriptures…including his Revelation, which was a bit of a mystery until we arrived at “the Lord’s day“ and God’s spirit filled in the blanks for those who would be alive at this critical period in history….the one Daniel called “the time of the end”. (Dan 12:4; 9-10)
But inferring this just from Matthias's and Paul's apostleship? Sorry, that's a non sequitur. A successor to Judas order to preserve the Divine Dozen, and a man struck from his horse and chosen to be apostle to the Gentiles, doesn't get me there.
The foundations of the kingdom are based on the 12, (Rev 21:14) which must include Judas’ replacement, Matthias. These were the first to be taken into the new covenant.…and the first to be offered a role as “kings and priests“ in the heavenly kingdom….where Jesus said he was going to “prepare a place” for them.

Paul’s apostleship was a one off special assignment, directly from Jesus, as “an apostle to the nations”. Because of his background and education as a Pharisee, Paul was equal to the task of addressing the Greek philosophers and other educated people who would never have listened to humble, uneducated fishermen. Paul’s masterful address at the Areopagus is an example of how he was used to spread the good news among the Gentiles.
 
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