Communion vs Holy Communion

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BreadOfLife

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I see you don't have anything to prove their information was false. Here's some more.

This is from www.newadvent.org/cathen/04175a.htm

"Communion under one kind is the reception of the Sacrement of the appearance of bread alone, or of wine alone. Communion under two or both kinds, the distinct reception under two or both species, sub utraque specie, at the same time."

Under the heading 'Catholic doctrine and modern discipline'.

"1.(b.) There is no Divine precept binding the laity or non-celebrating priests to receive the sacrement under both kinds. (Trent, sess. XXI c.i.)"

"1.(c.) ...Christ is really present and is received whole and entire, body and blood, soul and Divinity, under either species alone;..."

"1.(d.) ...Hence although the usage of communion under two kinds was not infrequent in the early ages [ab initio] of the Christian religion, yet the custom in this respect having changed almost universally [latissime] in the course of this time, holy mother the church, mindful of her authority in the administration of the sacrements, and influenced by weighty and just reasons, has approved the custom of communicating under one one kind, and decreed it to have the force of a law, which may not be set aside or changed but by the Church's own authority. (Trent Scss. XXI c.ii.)

"Not only, therefore, is Communion under both kinds not obligatory on the faithful, but the chalice is strictly forbidden by ecclesiastical law to any but the celebrating priest. These decrees of the Council of Trent were directed against the Reformers of the sixteenth century who, on the strength of John 6:54, Matt. 26:27, and Luke 22:17-19, enforced in most cases by a denial of the Real Presence and of the Sacrifice of the Mass, maintained the existence of a Divine precept obliging the faithful to receive under both kinds, and denounced the Catholic practice of witholding the cup from the laity as a sacrilegious mutilation of the sacrement..."

Stranger
And, how does ANY of this prove your point?
Answer: it DOESN'T because communion under BOTHER species is available to the laity and NOT reserved only for the clergy.

If you had bothered to READ what you were posting out of context, you would have seen that the latter comments in RED show that this discipline was aimed at the at your Protestant Fathers. Again - it was a matter of discipline because of a DENIAL of the Real Presence.

In the end - YOUR claim that the Precious Blood is WITHHELD from the laity during mass is just another one of your impotent anti-Catholic LIES - and nothing more.
 

Stranger

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And, how does ANY of this prove your point?
Answer: it DOESN'T because communion under BOTHER species is available to the laity and NOT reserved only for the clergy.

If you had bothered to READ what you were posting out of context, you would have seen that the latter comments in RED show that this discipline was aimed at the at your Protestant Fathers. Again - it was a matter of discipline because of a DENIAL of the Real Presence.

In the end - YOUR claim that the Precious Blood is WITHHELD from the laity during mass is just another one of your impotent anti-Catholic LIES - and nothing more.

You claim I lied in #137.

I proved the blood was withheld in #138. You claimed my source there was not credible as it was anti-catholic and dissident. #139 Yet you had nothing to give to refute it.

I then proved the blood was withheld from another webb site in #140. Which information was the same as the original 'dissident' source I used before. But now you must agree that what is said is true. And in reading these sources of information you see that the blood is withheld. Though you continue to claim it is not.

Thus, this makes you the liar. The information is there to see. You lied first in trying to use pictures as if this was the norm for the Roman Church. And it isn't. You lied about the information not being credible of the first source I gave. As it was supported by the second source I gave. And now you continue to lie and claim the laity are allowed to partake, drink, of the blood, at the Lords Supper.

My question to you is: Why do you want to be part of the Roman Church when you have to lie so much to defend it? Protestant churches allow their adherents to drink of the blood and eat of the body. The Roman Church does not as I have showed you and as you have read. You even bolded it in 'red'. "Not only, therefore, is Communion under both kinds not obligatory on the faithful, but the chalice is strictly forbidden by ecclesiastical law to any but the celebrating priest."

Stranger
 
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BreadOfLife

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You claim I lied in #137.

I proved the blood was withheld in #138. You claimed my source there was not credible as it was anti-catholic and dissident. #139 Yet you had nothing to give to refute it.

I then proved the blood was withheld from another webb site in #140. Which information was the same as the original 'dissident' source I used before. But now you must agree that what is said is true. And in reading these sources of information you see that the blood is withheld. Though you continue to claim it is not.

Thus, this makes you the liar. The information is there to see. You lied first in trying to use pictures as if this was the norm for the Roman Church. And it isn't. You lied about the information not being credible of the first source I gave. As it was supported by the second source I gave. And now you continue to lie and claim the laity are allowed to partake, drink, of the blood, at the Lords Supper.

My question to you is: Why do you want to be part of the Roman Church when you have to lie so much to defend it? Protestant churches allow their adherents to drink of the blood and eat of the body. The Roman Church does not as I have showed you and as you have read. You even bolded it in 'red'. "Not only, therefore, is Communion under both kinds not obligatory on the faithful, but the chalice is strictly forbidden by ecclesiastical law to any but the celebrating priest."

Stranger
I don't understand why you have this need to be publicly humiliated repeatedly - but here goes:

From the US Conference of Catholic Bishops Website:

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/norms-for-holy-communion-under-both-kinds/index.cfm
7. Bread and wine are presented by the faithful and placed upon the altar by the Priest. These are simple gifts, but they were foreshadowed in the Old Testament and chosen by Christ himself for the Eucharistic sacrifice. When these gifts of bread and wine are offered by the Priest in the name of the Church to the Father in the great Eucharistic Prayer of thanksgiving, they are transformed by the Holy Spirit into the Body and Blood of the only-begotten Son of the Father. Finally, when the one bread is broken, the unity of the faithful is expressed and through Communion they "receive from the one bread the Lord's Body and from the one chalice the Lord's Blood in the same way that the Apostles received them from the hands of Christ himself."
B_TN.jpg
CommunionWine-Credit_Mazur_EWTN_World_Catholic_News_11_2_11.jpg

communion-john.jpg
Smith-Vows-194-1024x846.jpg


Good enough - or shall I embarrass you some more??
 

Stranger

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I don't understand why you have this need to be publicly humiliated repeatedly - but here goes:

From the US Conference of Catholic Bishops Website:

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/norms-for-holy-communion-under-both-kinds/index.cfm
7. Bread and wine are presented by the faithful and placed upon the altar by the Priest. These are simple gifts, but they were foreshadowed in the Old Testament and chosen by Christ himself for the Eucharistic sacrifice. When these gifts of bread and wine are offered by the Priest in the name of the Church to the Father in the great Eucharistic Prayer of thanksgiving, they are transformed by the Holy Spirit into the Body and Blood of the only-begotten Son of the Father. Finally, when the one bread is broken, the unity of the faithful is expressed and through Communion they "receive from the one bread the Lord's Body and from the one chalice the Lord's Blood in the same way that the Apostles received them from the hands of Christ himself."
B_TN.jpg
CommunionWine-Credit_Mazur_EWTN_World_Catholic_News_11_2_11.jpg

communion-john.jpg
Smith-Vows-194-1024x846.jpg


Good enough - or shall I embarrass you some more??

Same pictures you showed before. So what? As I said, that is not the norm for the Roman Church. As I proved to you earlier. Your pictures prove nothing. Your pictures prove the exceptions.

As to the source you quote from, they also say in Part 1, 18) "By the 12 century theologians such as Peter Cantor speak of Communion under one kind as a 'custom' of the Church. This practice spread until the Council of Constance in 1415 decreed that Holy Communion under the form of bread alone would be distributed to the faithful.

Part 1, 19)"...The dogmatic principles which were laid down by the Counsel of Trent remaining intact, Communion under both kinds my be granted when the bishops think fit, not only to clerics and religious, but also to the laity, in cases to be determined by the Apostolic See..."

See, it is not at the desire of the laity to receive the Blood. It is only if the bishops so desire it.

CCC 1390 "Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite. But 'the sign of communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly.' This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites."

As I said, if you like pictures, get another avatar holding both the wine and the bread. Yours is only holding the bread because that is most common among the Roman Churches.

Stranger
 

BreadOfLife

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Same pictures you showed before. So what? As I said, that is not the norm for the Roman Church. As I proved to you earlier. Your pictures prove nothing. Your pictures prove the exceptions.

As to the source you quote from, they also say in Part 1, 18) "By the 12 century theologians such as Peter Cantor speak of Communion under one kind as a 'custom' of the Church. This practice spread until the Council of Constance in 1415 decreed that Holy Communion under the form of bread alone would be distributed to the faithful.

Part 1, 19)"...The dogmatic principles which were laid down by the Counsel of Trent remaining intact, Communion under both kinds my be granted when the bishops think fit, not only to clerics and religious, but also to the laity, in cases to be determined by the Apostolic See..."

See, it is not at the desire of the laity to receive the Blood. It is only if the bishops so desire it.

CCC 1390 "Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite. But 'the sign of communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly.' This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites."

As I said, if you like pictures, get another avatar holding both the wine and the bread. Yours is only holding the bread because that is most common among the Roman Churches.

Stranger
Uhhhhhh, no.
YOU claimed for several posts that the Precious Blood was WITHHELD from the laity. You stated that we were forbidden by the priests to receive the cup.

It is only AFTER I proved you wrong that you are now backpedaling by accepting the fact that reception under both species is allowed by permission of the Bishops. You can't have it BOTH ways, my angry friend . . .
 

Stranger

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Uhhhhhh, no.
YOU claimed for several posts that the Precious Blood was WITHHELD from the laity. You stated that we were forbidden by the priests to receive the cup.

It is only AFTER I proved you wrong that you are now backpedaling by accepting the fact that reception under both species is allowed by permission of the Bishops. You can't have it BOTH ways, my angry friend . . .

I have just showed you that the Blood is withheld from the laity. The exception is the exception. And it is not at the request of the laity to receive the blood. It's up to the bishops and the Pope. By your own source that you gave.

And CCC 1390 is very clear. The Latin Rite withholds the Blood from the Laity. And the "Latin Rite composes 98% of all Catholics world wide". www.catholicsandcultures.org/eastern-catholic-churches

What I stated was what the Council of Trent stated. And your own source agreed that that is still in tact. In other words, you got pictures of the exception. Not the norm. Which you well know.

Put a glass of wine with that cracker in your avatar. Or, do you need permission?

Stranger
 
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BreadOfLife

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I have just showed you that the Blood is withheld from the laity. The exception is the exception. And it is not at the request of the laity to receive the blood. It's up to the bishops and the Pope. By your own source that you gave.

And CCC 1390 is very clear. The Latin Rite withholds the Blood from the Laity. And the "Latin Rite composes 98% of all Catholics world wide". www.catholicsandcultures.org/eastern-catholic-churches

What I stated was what the Council of Trent stated. And your own source agreed that that is still in tact. In other words, you got pictures of the exception. Not the norm. Which you well know.

Put a glass of wine with that cracker in your avatar. Or, do you need permission?

Stranger
WRONG.

Just because distribution of BOTH species at Communion is not mandatory does NOT mean that it is NOT the normal practice in MOST Catholic parishes. The plain fact of the matter is that it IS available in most parishes in the United States.

YOUR
problem is with the idea that it is not mandatory.
That doesn't mean that the normal practice is to withhold it.
 

epostle1

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I have just showed you that the Blood is withheld from the laity. The exception is the exception. And it is not at the request of the laity to receive the blood. It's up to the bishops and the Pope. By your own source that you gave.
You can't receive It anyway so why is it such a concern?

And CCC 1390 is very clear. The Latin Rite withholds the Blood from the Laity. And the "Latin Rite composes 98% of all Catholics world wide". www.catholicsandcultures.org/eastern-catholic-churches
There is nothing in this site that says the Latin Rite withholds the Blood from the Laity. This is a two fold lie. You should paste in what you think it says and stop being such a coward.

What I stated was what the Council of Trent stated. And your own source agreed that that is still in tact. In other words, you got pictures of the exception. Not the norm. Which you well know.

Put a glass of wine with that cracker in your avatar. Or, do you need permission?

Stranger
You are on a bandwagon of lies, and refuse to get off.
1390 Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite. But "the sign of communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly." This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites.

You should check the catechism before throwing up paragraphs under a false pretense.

Here is the Council of Trent on Holy Communion
Under Pius IV Council of Trent-21

Put a glass of wine with that cracker in your avatar. Or, do you need permission?
Does making arrogant, sacrileges, childish insults bolster your beliefs? You must be terribly insecure.
 
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epostle1

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OFFICE FOR THE LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF

Doctrinal Formation and Communion Under Both Kinds



In the ordinary form of the Mass, the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds is an option whose usage has become a daily occurrence in many countries but, by no means everywhere, even in Europe.

The instruction "Redemptionis Sacramentum", promulgated in 2004, explains the context of this practice: "So that the fullness of the sign may be made more clearly evident to the faithful in the course of the Eucharistic banquet, lay members of Christ’s faithful, too, are admitted to Communion under both kinds, in the cases set forth in the liturgical books, preceded and continually accompanied by proper catechesis regarding the dogmatic principles on this matter laid down by the Ecumenical Council of Trent" (100).

This laudable intention frequently meets the catechetical stumbling block mentioned. Undoubtedly, Holy Communion under both species illustrates Christ's intention that we eat his Body and drink his Blood. However, that desire for Holy Communion in both kinds has not necessarily been accompanied by fidelity to the norms of liturgical books and supporting formation to protect against Eucharistic abuses and doctrinal misunderstandings.

While many have grasped that the Eucharist is the "Source and Summit" of Christian life, the handing down of the dogmatic principles of the Council of Trent has been seen as old-fashioned. The instruction has made clear that, intrinsic to the "fullness of the sign," is consistency with liturgical books and with the teachings of Trent.

"Redemptionis Sacramentum" displaces ambiguities of Eucharistic practice and "is directed toward such a conformity of our own understanding with that of Christ, as expressed in the words and the rites of the Liturgy" (5). Not infrequently, essential lack of Eucharistic awareness is revealed when, for want of formation, commissioned extraordinary ministers make reference to "giving out the wine." This very terminology suggests that, as part of their proper training, the dogmatic principle of Trent was not absorbed. Some might have heard about "substance" and "accidents" within the contexts of the religious education of yesteryear, but might have been encouraged to think that the Church had, somehow, moved on.

For modern generations, the Council of Trent may not have been mentioned in their doctrinal formation which emphasizes that "nothing is lost by the body being received by the people without the blood: because the priest both offers and receives the blood in the name of all, and the whole Christ is present under either species" (Summa Theologiae, III, q. 80, a. 12, ad 3). So, under the species of bread there is also present, by concomitance, the precious blood.

The purpose, then, of receiving Holy Communion under both kinds, is not that the faithful receive more grace than when they receive it under one kind alone, but that the faithful are enabled to appreciate vividly the value of the sign. Sadly, this distinction has not always been made clear and some people, when not offered Holy Communion under both kinds, have expressed a sense of bewilderment, even thwarted entitlement, or a feeling that Holy Communion under one kind alone was, to some extent, deficient.

Bishops conferences and diocesan bishops, in particular, are the key to ensuring locally that Holy Communion is distributed with reverence and avoidance of misunderstanding."Redemptionis Sacramentum" makes clear that the slightest danger of the sacred species being profaned is to be avoided (101). It also expresses concern about the "detriment of so great a mystery" (106). While "profanation" and the "detriment of so great a mystery" suggest different levels of Eucharistic abuse, both levels are expressly mentioned so that they will be avoided.

Every care should be taken to avoid the ministering of the chalice where circumstances suggest ambiguity of reception or a setting where the safety of the contents of the chalice might not be assured. "Redemptionis Sacramentum" states that where it is difficult to assess the quantity of wine needed for a particular celebration, owing to the large size of the congregation expected that the chalice is not to be ministered (102).

Alternative methods could be equally difficult to envisage such as the use of a spoon or a tube where these options are not the local custom. For Holy Communion by intinction, "the communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand" (104).

Forthcoming translations of the third edition of the Roman Missal mark, as the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales wrote in their joint pastoral letter of May 2011, "a moment of special grace." It is to be hoped that the envisaged in-depth catechesis on the Mass will revisit the mentality and the manner in which Holy Communion is received.

It sounds restrictive to suggest that Holy Communion received fervently under one species is more fruitful than a tepid Communion received under both species when concrete objectives aimed at doctrinal formation, care and reverence in the liturgical celebration and organizational forethought could do so much to acknowledge and address the challenges that have arisen.

The psalmist declares the imperative of that in-depth catechesis: "The things we have heard and understood, the things our fathers have told us these we will not hide from their children but will tell to the next generation" (Psalm 78:4).

St. Ambrose discloses what people of faith gain from that knowledge: "For as often as we eat this Bread and drink this cup, we proclaim the death of the Lord. If we proclaim the Lord’s death, we proclaim the forgiveness of sins. If, as often as his Blood is poured out, it is poured for the forgiveness of sins, I should always receive it, so that it may always forgive my sins. Because I always sin, I should always have a remedy" (St Ambrose, De sacr. 4, 6, 28: PL 16, 464).
 

Stranger

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Uhhhhhh, no.
YOU claimed for several posts that the Precious Blood was WITHHELD from the laity. You stated that we were forbidden by the priests to receive the cup.

It is only AFTER I proved you wrong that you are now backpedaling by accepting the fact that reception under both species is allowed by permission of the Bishops. You can't have it BOTH ways, my angry friend . . .

98%

Stranger
 

Stranger

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OFFICE FOR THE LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF

Doctrinal Formation and Communion Under Both Kinds



In the ordinary form of the Mass, the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds is an option whose usage has become a daily occurrence in many countries but, by no means everywhere, even in Europe.

The instruction "Redemptionis Sacramentum", promulgated in 2004, explains the context of this practice: "So that the fullness of the sign may be made more clearly evident to the faithful in the course of the Eucharistic banquet, lay members of Christ’s faithful, too, are admitted to Communion under both kinds, in the cases set forth in the liturgical books, preceded and continually accompanied by proper catechesis regarding the dogmatic principles on this matter laid down by the Ecumenical Council of Trent" (100).

This laudable intention frequently meets the catechetical stumbling block mentioned. Undoubtedly, Holy Communion under both species illustrates Christ's intention that we eat his Body and drink his Blood. However, that desire for Holy Communion in both kinds has not necessarily been accompanied by fidelity to the norms of liturgical books and supporting formation to protect against Eucharistic abuses and doctrinal misunderstandings.

While many have grasped that the Eucharist is the "Source and Summit" of Christian life, the handing down of the dogmatic principles of the Council of Trent has been seen as old-fashioned. The instruction has made clear that, intrinsic to the "fullness of the sign," is consistency with liturgical books and with the teachings of Trent.

"Redemptionis Sacramentum" displaces ambiguities of Eucharistic practice and "is directed toward such a conformity of our own understanding with that of Christ, as expressed in the words and the rites of the Liturgy" (5). Not infrequently, essential lack of Eucharistic awareness is revealed when, for want of formation, commissioned extraordinary ministers make reference to "giving out the wine." This very terminology suggests that, as part of their proper training, the dogmatic principle of Trent was not absorbed. Some might have heard about "substance" and "accidents" within the contexts of the religious education of yesteryear, but might have been encouraged to think that the Church had, somehow, moved on.

For modern generations, the Council of Trent may not have been mentioned in their doctrinal formation which emphasizes that "nothing is lost by the body being received by the people without the blood: because the priest both offers and receives the blood in the name of all, and the whole Christ is present under either species" (Summa Theologiae, III, q. 80, a. 12, ad 3). So, under the species of bread there is also present, by concomitance, the precious blood.

The purpose, then, of receiving Holy Communion under both kinds, is not that the faithful receive more grace than when they receive it under one kind alone, but that the faithful are enabled to appreciate vividly the value of the sign. Sadly, this distinction has not always been made clear and some people, when not offered Holy Communion under both kinds, have expressed a sense of bewilderment, even thwarted entitlement, or a feeling that Holy Communion under one kind alone was, to some extent, deficient.

Bishops conferences and diocesan bishops, in particular, are the key to ensuring locally that Holy Communion is distributed with reverence and avoidance of misunderstanding."Redemptionis Sacramentum" makes clear that the slightest danger of the sacred species being profaned is to be avoided (101). It also expresses concern about the "detriment of so great a mystery" (106). While "profanation" and the "detriment of so great a mystery" suggest different levels of Eucharistic abuse, both levels are expressly mentioned so that they will be avoided.

Every care should be taken to avoid the ministering of the chalice where circumstances suggest ambiguity of reception or a setting where the safety of the contents of the chalice might not be assured. "Redemptionis Sacramentum" states that where it is difficult to assess the quantity of wine needed for a particular celebration, owing to the large size of the congregation expected that the chalice is not to be ministered (102).

Alternative methods could be equally difficult to envisage such as the use of a spoon or a tube where these options are not the local custom. For Holy Communion by intinction, "the communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand" (104).

Forthcoming translations of the third edition of the Roman Missal mark, as the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales wrote in their joint pastoral letter of May 2011, "a moment of special grace." It is to be hoped that the envisaged in-depth catechesis on the Mass will revisit the mentality and the manner in which Holy Communion is received.

It sounds restrictive to suggest that Holy Communion received fervently under one species is more fruitful than a tepid Communion received under both species when concrete objectives aimed at doctrinal formation, care and reverence in the liturgical celebration and organizational forethought could do so much to acknowledge and address the challenges that have arisen.

The psalmist declares the imperative of that in-depth catechesis: "The things we have heard and understood, the things our fathers have told us these we will not hide from their children but will tell to the next generation" (Psalm 78:4).

St. Ambrose discloses what people of faith gain from that knowledge: "For as often as we eat this Bread and drink this cup, we proclaim the death of the Lord. If we proclaim the Lord’s death, we proclaim the forgiveness of sins. If, as often as his Blood is poured out, it is poured for the forgiveness of sins, I should always receive it, so that it may always forgive my sins. Because I always sin, I should always have a remedy" (St Ambrose, De sacr. 4, 6, 28: PL 16, 464).

98%

Stranger
 

Stranger

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98% what??
Resorting to hit-and-run posts is the last refuge of the TRULY desperate . . .

Apparently you were not paying attention, as usual. Go back to #146. CCC 1390 is clear. "...under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite...."

Then I noted that the Latin churches compose 98% of the Catholics world wide. And I gave the reference.

Thus, 98% of the Roman churches use the species of bread alone. Of course there will be some exceptions, but this is the norm.

Your pictures are of the exception, not the norm. That is why in your avatar you just have a cracker.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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You can't receive It anyway so why is it such a concern?

There is nothing in this site that says the Latin Rite withholds the Blood from the Laity. This is a two fold lie. You should paste in what you think it says and stop being such a coward.


You are on a bandwagon of lies, and refuse to get off.
1390 Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite. But "the sign of communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly." This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites.

You should check the catechism before throwing up paragraphs under a false pretense.

Here is the Council of Trent on Holy Communion
Under Pius IV Council of Trent-21


Does making arrogant, sacrileges, childish insults bolster your beliefs? You must be terribly insecure.

It's a concern because unless both the bread and wine are eaten and drank, by the individuals participating, then it is of no value because it wasn't really observed.

The site indicates that 98% of Catholics world wide are of the Latin Rite. And it is the Latin Rite where taking of just the bread is the most common.

Note the last sentence of 1390 that you failed to bold. "This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites." Then see sentence above.

Conclusion: The pictures presented are not the norm in the Roman Church. The norm is 'bread only' for the laity.

Please, no name calling. You will hurt my feelings.

Stranger
 

epostle1

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It's a concern because unless both the bread and wine are eaten and drank, by the individuals participating, then it is of no value because it wasn't really observed.

The site indicates that 98% of Catholics world wide are of the Latin Rite. And it is the Latin Rite where taking of just the bread is the most common.

Note the last sentence of 1390 that you failed to bold. "This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites." Then see sentence above.

Conclusion: The pictures presented are not the norm in the Roman Church. The norm is 'bread only' for the laity.

Please, no name calling. You will hurt my feelings.

Stranger
Your conclusion is jammed somewhere up your sigmoid colon.
image.jpg
 

BreadOfLife

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Apparently you were not paying attention, as usual. Go back to #146. CCC 1390 is clear. "...under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite...."

Then I noted that the Latin churches compose 98% of the Catholics world wide. And I gave the reference.

Thus, 98% of the Roman churches use the species of bread alone. Of course there will be some exceptions, but this is the norm.

Your pictures are of the exception, not the norm. That is why in your avatar you just have a cracker.

Stranger
Do you even pay attention to what yo post??
Apparently not . . .

The Catechism is saying that most people RECEIVE the consecrated host alone - NOT that they are only ALLOWED to receive it and not the cup. I have received the Eucharist in 5 countries in Europe and North America - and they ALL offered the cup.

I understand how humiliating this must be for you but you keep digging a deeper hole for yourself . . .
 

Stranger

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Do you even pay attention to what yo post??
Apparently not . . .

The Catechism is saying that most people RECEIVE the consecrated host alone - NOT that they are only ALLOWED to receive it and not the cup. I have received the Eucharist in 5 countries in Europe and North America - and they ALL offered the cup.

I understand how humiliating this must be for you but you keep digging a deeper hole for yourself . . .

Offering is not drinking.

98%

Your pictures are of a minority, extreme minority in the Roman Church. And your pictures are a way of portraying a false reality. Also called a method of lying.

Stranger
 

BreadOfLife

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Offering is not drinking.

98%

Your pictures are of a minority, extreme minority in the Roman Church. And your pictures are a way of portraying a false reality. Also called a method of lying.

Stranger
And your text above i RED says it all.

You originally claimed that the cup was WITHHELD from the laity - then I destroyed that lie with the truth.

THEN, you switched your argument to whether is was the "norm" to offer the cup - and I destroyed that lie.

You have now retreated to an even MORE impotent argument by stating that is is indeed offered - but many don't drink from it.

A FAR CRY from your original lie . . .
 

Stranger

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And your text above i RED says it all.

You originally claimed that the cup was WITHHELD from the laity - then I destroyed that lie with the truth.

THEN, you switched your argument to whether is was the "norm" to offer the cup - and I destroyed that lie.

You have now retreated to an even MORE impotent argument by stating that is is indeed offered - but many don't drink from it.

A FAR CRY from your original lie . . .

I switched nothing. I always said, offering was not drinking. The Roman Church refuses to allow the laity the blood of Christ. They offer it, but they refuse them to drink.

I haven't changed anything I have said.

You'r cute photos are the lie. Though I believe they are of real people enjoying the Lords Supper, as they should. They just don't represent the vast majority of Romanists.

Stranger
 

Rollo Tamasi

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In 1 Corinthians 11:27-30, Paul speaks to the reality of the Eucharist and the severity of the consequences to those who take this lightly: “Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.”

This is pretty harsh language for something that Protestants claim is only a symbol.

This directly correlates to the Bread of Life discourse in John 6, where Jesus stated in no uncertain terms:
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”


It is interesting to note that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is not the word used in these passages. St. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, to munch or to gnaw - like an animal eats. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was not speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.
Just as the Paschal Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

In verse 60, his disciples said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"

Did Jesus explain what he "really" meant? No, he said:
"Does this shock you?"


He knew that some would not believe because they didn't have true faith from the Father. Here, Jesus is telling them that unless we are drawn to him by the Father, we cannot possibly understand him. This is why his followers abandoned him and returned to their former way of life in verse 66. This verse says, “As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.”

This marks the only time in Scripture where Jesus' disciples left him for doctrinal reasons. They simply couldn't handle what Jesus was telling them.

It is also important to note what happened after this. Did Jesus plead with them or explain that he was speaking “metaphorically” or “symbolically”? NO. He turned to the Apostles and said, "Do you also want to leave?" Here it is completely evident - except to those who refuse to see - that Jesus meant what he said.
Question; Why do Jews not want to be Christians?
Answer: It scares them to worship a God who wants people to eat him and become cannibals.
This is not addressed in the Old Testament.
Catholics wouldn't know that.
Their brain washing is too deeply ingrained.