Comparing KJV With ESV

[Hidden In Him]

Exactly. God made mankind first and later an individual man called Adam and a woman. After the fall, the man called his wife Eve because became the mother of all living. Before the fall mankind was just a species of animal that God decided to make into His image. That plan is now coming to fruition.

Correct, God created humankind as you say, and after the fall came Adam the father of Cain and Able.

Ok, I'll bite. Where is this coming from scripturally, you two?

@Cooper: What sort of animal was "mankind," before God created Adam?

 

[strobe]

God created Man. Humanity. And that original Humanity was all still rolled up in Adam. The first look at Humanity was a single man. Yet we are not a collection of individual men who have no connection to each other, we are all parts of that very same Humanity, all contained in the loins of Adam, unfolding over the centuries.

So that when Adam sinned, Humanity sinned, and when Adam died, Humanity died. And when we trust in Christ, we are removed from the first Adam's condemned race, and immersed into Christ, the Last Adam, a new Humanity.

Much love!

I don't read it like that. The fall was required and was an essential part of God's amazing plan. Why put a tree of knowledge in the garden and tell them not to eat its fruit? Does God not want us to know good and evil? In order to be in His image we must have that knowledge. Adam was sent specifically to do what he did. God tricked the devil into tempting them and the rest is history.

 

[strobe]

Ok, I'll bite. Where is this coming from scripturally, you two?

@Cooper: What sort of animal was "mankind," before God created Adam?

I would suggest that you stop listening to people and read what the Bible actually says! Yes there are many lines we have to read between but the essential information is all there. So far everything I have said is from the first few chapters of Genesis.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I would suggest that you stop listening to people and read what the Bible actually says!

And I would suggest you answer my question instead of telling me what to do, LoL.

I don't read it like that. The fall was required and was an essential part of God's amazing plan. Why put a tree of knowledge in the garden and tell them not to eat its fruit? Does God not want us to know good and evil? In order to be in His image we must have that knowledge. Adam was sent specifically to do what he did. God tricked the devil into tempting them and the rest is history.

Question #2: On what "authority" are you now completely rewriting the Genesis narrative. Cite your sources.

 

[strobe]

And I would suggest you answer my question instead of telling me what to do, LoL.


Question #2: On what "authority" are you now completely rewriting the Genesis narrative. Cite your sources.

Ask specific questions and I'll do my best to give specific answers. What have I rewritten? I have no authority and claim none.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I have no authority and claim none.

Ok, now no offense, but you are backpedaling now. You have been making very definitive statements to the effect that you teach the Bible accurately whereas others like myself are simply "listening to what others say."

Ask specific questions and maye I'll do my best to give specific questions.

You declared, "Yes there are many lines we have to read between, but the essential information is all there."

So here is my specific question: State specifically what is being said "between the lines," and state specifically the "essential information that is all [already] there."

 

[strobe]

Ok, now no offense, but you are backpedaling now. You have been making very definitive statements to the effect that you teach the Bible accurately whereas others like myself are simply "listening to what others say."

I didn't say that, I said don't listen to me, read the bible.

 

[strobe]

So here is my specific question: State specifically what is being said "between the lines," and state specifically the "essential information that is all [already] there.

That is not a specific question. If anything that is less specific than before, like asking "state specifically everything you think"!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I didn't say that, I said don't listen to me, read the bible.

AHahahah!!

Then just post scripture verses from now on, LoL!!

That is not a specific question. If anything that is less specific than before, like asking "state specifically everything you think"!

LoLL!!! You're going to have to forgive me, but I'm having fun with this.

You couldn't maybe just give it a start now could you? LoL.

Ok, let me go back and at least get what you've already stated. Gimme a sec : )

 

[Cooper]

Ok, I'll bite. Where is this coming from scripturally, you two?

@Cooper: What sort of animal was "mankind," before God created Adam?

This was primative man, a little like Lucy. SEE HERE

(GENESIS 1:27) The Hebrew speaks of adamah which means "out of the ground" (this agrees with science) and hawwah, which means living beings (plural). If it had been left in the Hebrew we would have understood that "living beings" came "out of the ground."

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27 KJV)

Then in chapter four, the parents of Cain and Able were named Adam and Eve, thereby causing a fair amount of confusion on the forums. Early man did not have names and only communicated with grunts and gestures.
.

 

[Hidden In Him]

How can Genesis 1:27 be talking about Adam? Adam was one man, that verse specifically says He made THEM male and female.

God made mankind first and later an individual man called Adam and a woman... Before the fall mankind was just a species of animal that God decided to make into His image.

Ok, now the "lines" simply state as follows: "And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them." How are you "reading between the lines" that these lines state mankind was just a species of animal before God created Adam and Eve?

 

[Hidden In Him]

(GENESIS 1:27) The Hebrew speaks of adamah which means "out of the ground" (this agrees with science) and hawwah, which means living beings (plural). If it had been left in the Hebrew we would have understood that "living beings" came "out of the ground."

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27 KJV)

Then in chapter four, the parents of Cain and Able were named Adam and Eve, thereby causing a fair amount of confusion on the forums.

Ok, thank you, Cooper.

Then let me ask you this: Why did all of Jewish and later Christian tradition associate the man and woman mentioned in Genesis 1:27 with Adam and Eve in Chapter 4?

 

[strobe]

Ok, now the "lines" simply state as follows: "And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." How are you "reading between the lines" that these lines state mankind was just a species of animal before God created Adam and Eve?

That is where this all started. My point was that verse appears to be in a poetic form evidenced by the difference in formatting between the ESV and KJV. I suggest that might mean that it is a prophesy rather than a completed topic. Thanks.

 

[strobe]

This was primative man, a little like Lucy.

(GENESIS 1:27) The Hebrew speaks of adamah which means "out of the ground" (this agrees with science) and hawwah, which means living beings (plural). If it had been left in the Hebrew we would have understood that "living beings" came "out of the ground."

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27 KJV)

Then in chapter four, the parents of Cain and Able were named Adam and Eve, thereby causing a fair amount of confusion on the forums. Early man did not have names and only communicated with grunts and gestures.
.

I pretty much go along with that except, Adam gave his wife a name after the fall wereas before she had only been named 'woman'. That's why I think the fall was required because she became the mother OF ALL LIVING at a time when the only people living would heve been her and her husband.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I suggest that might mean that it is a prophesy rather than a completed topic.

It is a prophecy, but it was also a completed work in history. It is both. He created the man, then created the woman from the man, as part of the six days of creation. The seventh day when He rested prophetically foreshadows the millennium.

But again, while I mean no offense, you are rewriting the narrative when you insert into the text that mankind was in existence before Adam and Eve, based on the premise that we must "read between the lines." What do you have to go on for this? Jewish tradition for nearly the last six thousand years now says the man and the woman in Genesis 1:27 were Adam and Eve in Genesis 4.

 

[marks]

I don't read it like that. The fall was required and was an essential part of God's amazing plan. Why put a tree of knowledge in the garden and tell them not to eat its fruit? Does God not want us to know good and evil? In order to be in His image we must have that knowledge. Adam was sent specifically to do what he did. God tricked the devil into tempting them and the rest is history.

You make God then to be the Author and Originator of sin. I won't do that. That God wanted Man to sin and lied to Adam, and all the rest of us ever since.

God is not a man that he should lie.

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

To the original post, I would respectfully submit that the whole premise is wrong. The KJV and the ESV say the same things, but the KJV, because of its antiquated language style, is easier to misunderstand. And that's clearly what's happening among many here.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Cooper]

Ok, thank you, Cooper.

Then let me ask you this: Why did all of Jewish and later Christian tradition associate the man and woman mentioned in Genesis 1:27 with Adam and Eve in Chapter 4?

Basically, it was ignorance. The creation account appears to be a continuous series of events, until we realise there was a long gap between the first humans and the parents of Cain and Able. As you can see they were giving in marriage, building a city wall, making tents, early men were cave dwellers, they were playing musical instruments, working in brass and iron which requires fire. They were farming, one was a shepherd, and the other tilled the soil. Early people were hunter gatherers. This describes the Bronze Age.

And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold. And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
(Genesis 4:16-26 KJV)
.

 

[PinSeeker]

I'm going to interject something briefly here:

This was primative man, a little like Lucy. SEE HERE

(GENESIS 1:27) The Hebrew speaks of adamah which means "out of the ground" (this agrees with science) and hawwah, which means living beings (plural). If it had been left in the Hebrew we would have understood that "living beings" came "out of the ground."

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27 KJV)

Then in chapter four, the parents of Cain and Able were named Adam and Eve, thereby causing a fair amount of confusion on the forums. Early man did not have names and only communicated with grunts and gestures.

Genesis 1 and 2 are one story, chapter 1 being from a general, high-level view of the whole act of creation by God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, and chapter 2 "zooming in on the creation of man (and woman). And then chapter 3 focuses on the fall of that federal head of the human race, Adam, and his wife Eve, who was deceived. Disconnection of any part of Genesis 1, 2, or 3 from any other part of that same passage is clearly in error.

Grace and peace.

 

[PinSeeker]

The creation account appears to be a continuous series of events...

It is.

... until we realise there was a long gap between the first humans and the parents of Cain and Able.

There was no "gap." Adam and Eve were the first humans and the parents of Cain and Abel. The only gap was between conception of Cain and Abel and their birth, which was, I'm pretty sure, about nine months. I guess there was possibly a honeymoon for Adam and Eve preceeding that... Eve was the first mother of all who have ever lived.

Grace and peace.