Convince me of Annihilationism

[bbyrd009]

I am serious.

ya, i guess i knew that. Imo that makes it worse, not better tho, k
guess i'm neglecting irl or something now, have a good evening CI

the Xmas "spirit" is manifested by mom, on purpose

 

[amadeus]

Well in all fairness imo Scripture goes to great lengths to seemingly encourage the pov...to older children anyway. Near as i can tell they were as obsessed with the concept then as we are now. And i doubt Abba is immune to a little um reverse psychology, or whatever that is. Which that isn't i guess, i've had about 10 hours sleep in the past week. Pandering, although there is a more psych term, notcoming to me

Well work on getting some real sleep my friend. I, who have had lots of trouble [and still do have], getting enough sleep can relate to this.

 

[amadeus]

This is where the definition of eternal life is so important. Jesus told us what eternal life is, it's not existing forever, that's not the definition. It's knowing God, and knowing Jesus.

Relationship with God is life, and we live in Him, so we have eternal life. As long as He lives, we live in Him.

Those who do not know God, and know Jesus, do not have eternal life, yet though they exist.

Having eternal life and not having eternal life are not functions of whether the person exists. They can exist without having eternal life, not knowing God.

The question of whether a person continues forever in torment or not must be answered separately.

Much love!
Mark

I most certainly do hear what you are saying here. Give God the glory!

 

[CoreIssue]

A problem with those who believe in annihilation is that their arguments also say God is not eternal.

 

[amadeus]

A problem with those who believe in annihilation is that their arguments also say God is not eternal.

I am afraid that your words make no sense at all. Nothing and no one is like God. Those walking with Him may be on the approach, but those not with Him will eventually lose all hope and therefore everything:

"And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Col 1:17

 

[CoreIssue]

I am afraid that your words make no sense at all. Nothing and no one is like God. Those walking with Him may be on the approach, but those not with Him will eventually lose all hope and therefore everything:

"And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Col 1:17

And that is where your failure to do Bible study comes in.

Those who are not saved do not cease their rebellion in the lake of fire. So you cannot speak of them as having hope.

 

[CoreIssue]

Those who are not saved look to themselves, other people and other gods for hope.

Only those seeking God or who have God look to the one true God for hope.

That hope is in the resurrection of Christ.

 

[amadeus]

And that is where your failure to do Bible study comes in.

Those who are not saved do not cease their rebellion in the lake of fire. So you cannot speak of them as having hope.

Those without hope may simply be out of time and have no hope and also nothing else. Another possibility is that they have truly blasphemed against the Holy Ghost:

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." Matt 12:31

 

[marks]

I am afraid that your words make no sense at all. Nothing and no one is like God. Those walking with Him may be on the approach, but those not with Him will eventually lose all hope and therefore everything:

"And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Col 1:17

Hi Amadeus,

I think what CI is referring to is the fact that the Bible uses the exact same terminology when it speaks of the eternal life of the redeemed, and the eternal torment of the unredeemed.

If the one is forever, according to the text, then if we are to be consistent, we should see the other as forever also.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus,

I think what CI is referring to is the fact that the Bible uses the exact same terminology when it speaks of the eternal life of the redeemed, and the eternal torment of the unredeemed.

If the one is forever, according to the text, then if we are to be consistent, we should see the other as forever also.

Much love!

I understand the question and the basis for it, but what no one has clarified is how those who never acknowledged the Master [Jesus] and never accepted the Life that He brought for them can be said by anyone to Live in pain and suffering without end? I may not have an easy answer that everyone here would readily accept, but to accept this idea that those who died in sin will live on in any state of perception simply goes against too many verses of scriptures in any reasonable translation and interpretation used by men.

To me, Jesus recognized that there were dead men walking around and the scripture make it clear, to me, that dead men know and perceive nothing. This is seen in both the OT and the NT and many more verses than what I have quoted on this thread. Why teach something as absolute which is brought into question repeatedly by the very scriptures written by men as they were inspired by God?

I do live for God by faith rather than by knowledge so why are people surprised when I do not embrace a doctrine or belief which is as clear as mud?

 

[marks]

To me, Jesus recognized that there were dead man walking around and the scripture make it clear, to me, that dead men know and perceive nothing.

I've not read this entire thread, just the same, Jesus taught about those who had died as though still possessing a sense of self and their environment, and an ability to interact with it.

There is the example of King Saul and the medium of Endor, and Samuel, who came from the place of the dead and spoke with Saul, prophesying the outcome of the battle.

This is very plain Scripture. Perhaps you have addressed your POV of this passage elsewhere, I don't know.

Much love!
mark

 

[marks]

I understand the question and the basis for it,

How then do you account for this use of the language?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I've not read this entire thread, just the same, Jesus taught about those who had died as though still possessing a sense of self and their environment, and an ability to interact with it.

There is the example of King Saul and the medium of Endor, and Samuel, who came from the place of the dead and spoke with Saul, prophesying the outcome of the battle.

This is very plain Scripture. Perhaps you have addressed your POV of this passage elsewhere, I don't know.

Much love!
mark

Start by reading the verses I quoted in post #6...

 

[amadeus]

How then do you account for this use of the language?

Much love!

I have explained why my position is what it is already on this thread. [You may wish to read my posts before continuing.] I am not going to change simply because the majority may disagree. The majority of the leadership in Jerusalem were opposed to Jesus, but he was always willing to stand alone. My belief may not be equal to the knowledge that He had, but as they were most certainly wrong to oppose him in spite of their numbers, until a better explanation or clear revelation from God to me to the contrary is expressed, I won't switch sides simply to appease or agree with any majority. The best I can do is return to the "lowest room" and leave it in the hands of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

wake up the Saints and take them home.

you're a pebble on the edge of a cliff, and you're looking up?

 

[bbyrd009]

Start by reading the verses I quoted in post #6...

A, what is the verse that says "we don't write the way you read?" Bc reading...that is not going to work for him right now I guess.
The v maybe has the word language in it, not sure. Wanna say in Corinthians somewhere maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

Well work on getting some real sleep my friend. I, who have had lots of trouble [and still do have], getting enough sleep can relate to this.

ah, sorry about that. I usually sleep pretty good, but i'm on walkabout and made a major move, so some adjustment period is normal I guess.
Rhode Island is not an island, who knew? Softest muni water I ever felt though, man, ima go take a shower right now! lol. I just got some goat soap too; feels like ten virgins giving a massage

are you exhausting yourself at least once twice a day? It even sounds...cleansing, huh? Exhaust
fwiw swimming and yoga, senior yoga (youtube) might serve you. See how long you can dog paddle in a pool without stopping lol, pretty sure you'll be wanting a little lie-down right after :)

you aren't supping melatonin, are you?

 

[bbyrd009]

I understand the question and the basis for it, but what no one has clarified is how those who never acknowledged the Master [Jesus] and never accepted the Life that He brought for them can be said by anyone to Live in pain and suffering without end? I may not have an easy answer that everyone here would readily accept, but to accept this idea that those who died in sin will live on in any state of perception simply goes against too many verses of scriptures in any reasonable translation and interpretation used by men.

To me, Jesus recognized that there were dead man walking around and the scripture make it clear, to me, that dead men know and perceive nothing. This is seen in both the OT and the NT and many more verses than what I have quoted on this thread. Why teach something as absolute which is brought into question repeatedly by the very scriptures written by men as they were inspired by God?

I do live for God by faith rather than by knowledge so why are people surprised when I do not embrace a doctrine or belief which is as clear as mud?

it's patently easy to reveal literalism as hypocrisy; to everyone else but the literalist

 

[bbyrd009]

There is the example of King Saul and the medium of Endor, and Samuel, who came from the place of the dead and spoke with Saul, prophesying the outcome of the battle.

yet you do not buy you and your sons will be here with me
hmm

 

[bbyrd009]

I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech.

Why don't you understand the language I use?

If, however, I do not know the meaning of the particular language, I shall seem
to the speaker of it, and he to me, to be merely talking some foreign tongue

hmm, might be a variant of one of the first two maybe. But bam go read "literally" now