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Creation vs. Evolution Apologetics

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Codegrazer, Dec 3, 2007.

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  1. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (thesuperjag;25512)
    If you believe in the bible 100% you wouldn't be speaking a teaching the tradition of men. The false doctrine. Whether you like it or not, The Truth always rebuke a lie.Jag
    Who has the tradition of man here, really? The ones who accept only the later literal interpretation of Genesis, not supported by the Rabbi's or the earliest Church fathers, or the one who believes Genesis to be literal, based on the later church fathers up to this day?Lost you are young one.[​IMG]In Hope,~Tyrel
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;25515)
    (thesuperjag;25512)
    If you believe in the bible 100% you wouldn't be speaking a teaching the tradition of men. The false doctrine. Whether you like it or not, The Truth always rebuke a lie.Jag
    Who has the tradition of man here, really? The ones who accept only the later literal interpretation of Genesis, not supported by the Rabbi's or the earliest Church fathers, or the one who believes Genesis to be literal, based on the later church fathers up to this day?Lost you are young one.[​IMG]In Hope,~TyrelGenesis 2 and obviously Genesis 3 are NOT meant to be taken literally. You are living in a ruin full of void. How is it that you are suppose to get wisdom from men? who blaspheme Yahshua?Jag
     
  3. Dei-Gnostica

    Dei-Gnostica New Member

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    (Wakka;25462)
    Wrong. Evolution is a stretched truth of adaptation. We do not come from apes. You can't get a lizzard to grow wings and turn into a bird. Besides, through adaptation we got all of our species. And Dinosaurs can be explained through Christian science, not evolution.
    Dinosaurs can be explained through aliens visiting the earth and dropping them off. That doesn't make it literally accurate. Christianity is a faith, a relationship. Not a science. Evolution has been observed, and it certainly doesn't say a lizard will suddenly grow wings. What it does say is that certain genetic mutations which are favorable and breed true for a certain species will be carried over into the next generation, and then the next, and so on until feathers are grown.... and then muscles supporting the feathers to create wings, and so on. You can't get a lizard to grow wings, but you can certainly get a species of lizard to branch out into a new species to grow wings in a process which takes place over the course of 60 million years. Jesus was our one True Savior because He challenged us to think for ourselves and question authority: Roman authority. There is an underlying message that our Lord and Savior wants us to learn: Think for ourselves, and examine and observe this world. Evolution has been observed. God wants us to think for ourselves and come to know that Evolution is an observed process and that God is behind it all. Genesis is not a literal work. If it was it would defeat God's purpose in wanting us to explore this world and think for ourselves. Genesis is meant to be symbolic. It is meant to convey that behind every particle of atom, every newton of energy, every force, every point in space, every moment in time, lies the Finger of God, the Mind of God, the Breath of God, the Eminence of God, the Love of God. THAT is why we were meant to discover Evolution for the fact that it is. Evolution has allowed us humans, us homo sapiens to survive and thrive because behind Evolution lies God. We are so good at survival because God has taught us thus. Therein lies the Love of God. Therein lies the love of the fundamental supremacy of reality: God.
     
  4. Dei-Gnostica

    Dei-Gnostica New Member

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    (Wakka;25490)
    So you're saying that Adam was an ape like creature? That's hard to believe. Considering that he was formed from the image of God.I'm sorry, but evolution has to be the biggest lie ever.
    God has no form. But Adam and Eve were created in God's image: this is where symbolism comes in. God's image was that of a comfortable, beautiful blue planet called Earth. Adam/Eve are a part of that near perfect image. As is Evolution.So yes, Adam/Eve in a sense could have been ape like creatures. That makes them no less beautiful in the sight of God than modern humans. Evolution is very well a fact now. It is part and parcel of scientific truth. It is part and parcel of God's design.
     
  5. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (thesuperjag;25516)
    Genesis 2 and obviously Genesis 3 are NOT meant to be taken literally. You are living in a ruin full of void. How is it that you are suppose to get wisdom from men? who blaspheme Yahshua?Jag
    Dear Superjag, If neither of these chapters are meant to be taken literally, then why do you think our views opposite?
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Dei-Gnostica;25517)
    (Wakka;25462)
    Wrong. Evolution is a stretched truth of adaptation. We do not come from apes. You can't get a lizzard to grow wings and turn into a bird. Besides, through adaptation we got all of our species. And Dinosaurs can be explained through Christian science, not evolution.
    Dinosaurs can be explained through aliens visiting the earth and dropping them off. That doesn't make it literally accurate. Christianity is a faith, a relationship. Not a science. Evolution has been observed, and it certainly doesn't say a lizard will suddenly grow wings. What it does say is that certain genetic mutations which are favorable and breed true for a certain species will be carried over into the next generation, and then the next, and so on until feathers are grown.... and then muscles supporting the feathers to create wings, and so on. You can't get a lizard to grow wings, but you can certainly get a species of lizard to branch out into a new species to grow wings in a process which takes place over the course of 60 million years.Jesus was our one True Savior because He challenged us to think for ourselves and question authority: Roman authority.There is an underlying message that our Lord and Savior wants us to learn: Think for ourselves, and examine and observe this world.Evolution has been observed. God wants us to think for ourselves and come to know that Evolution is an observed process and that God is behind it all.Genesis is not a literal work. If it was it would defeat God's purpose in wanting us to explore this world and think for ourselves. Genesis is meant to be symbolic. It is meant to convey that behind every particle of atom, every newton of energy, every force, every point in space, every moment in time, lies the Finger of God, the Mind of God, the Breath of God, the Eminence of God, the Love of God. THAT is why we were meant to discover Evolution for the fact that it is. Evolution has allowed us humans, us homo sapiens to survive and thrive because behind Evolution lies God. We are so good at survival because God has taught us thus. Therein lies the Love of God. Therein lies the love of the fundamental supremacy of reality: God.Genesis 1 is a literal work...Thank you very much. God made animals, ANIMALS. God made man, MAN. God made plant, PLANTS. God made the sun, SUN. God made the moon, MOON.So your conclusion is very much flawed.(Dei-Gnostica;25518)
    (Wakka;25490)
    So you're saying that Adam was an ape like creature? That's hard to believe. Considering that he was formed from the image of God.I'm sorry, but evolution has to be the biggest lie ever.
    God has no form. But Adam and Eve were created in God's image: this is where symbolism comes in. God's image was that of a comfortable, beautiful blue planet called Earth. Adam/Eve are a part of that near perfect image. As is Evolution.So yes, Adam/Eve in a sense could have been ape like creatures. That makes them no less beautiful in the sight of God than modern humans.Evolution is very well a fact now. It is part and parcel of scientific truth. It is part and parcel of God's design.Evolution is clearly sent by Satan...to deceive God's precious childrens.I Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:Jag
     
  7. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    (thesuperjag;25520)
    Genesis 1 is a literal work...Thank you very much. God made animals, ANIMALS. God made man, MAN. God made plant, PLANTS. God made the sun, SUN. God made the moon, MOON.So your conclusion is very much flawed.Evolution is clearly sent by Satan...to deceive God's precious childrens.I Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:Jag
    Thank you Jag.Luke 4:4 - And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;25519)
    (thesuperjag;25516)
    Genesis 2 and obviously Genesis 3 are NOT meant to be taken literally. You are living in a ruin full of void. How is it that you are suppose to get wisdom from men? who blaspheme Yahshua?Jag
    Dear Superjag,If neither of these chapters are meant to be taken literally, then why do you think our views opposite?The problem with this poor soul, is the fact that it can't tell which scripture is meant to be taken literally or symbolic. Try gaining wisdom from YHWH through His Son Yahshua rather instead of mere humans to do the work for you. Come back when you know Truth.(Wakka;25523)
    (thesuperjag;25520)
    Genesis 1 is a literal work...Thank you very much. God made animals, ANIMALS. God made man, MAN. God made plant, PLANTS. God made the sun, SUN. God made the moon, MOON.So your conclusion is very much flawed.Evolution is clearly sent by Satan...to deceive God's precious childrens.I Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:Jag
    Thank you Jag.Luke 4:4 - And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.No problem Wakka. [​IMG] Anytime. I'm just tired of all that evil going on.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  9. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Superjag, I realize it might be a lost cause to ask you to observe evidence, as you never have cared to before. Nevertheless, I beg you to come out from your delusion, and stop following the true tradition of man, which is falsehood.Instead, please, learn the facts, and work with them.This might be thought of by some as pearls to swine, as many have already suggested, but just the same, this isn't directed only to you, but to all reading this.Please, if you are of the mind that intelligent inquiry is not a path to distruction, but a path towards finding the Truth of God, then, again, I direct you to visitwww.talkorigins.organd of course, to take the time to view and consider the video on YouTube, and watch for the full 2 hours.http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSgIn hope,~Tyrel
     
  10. Dei-Gnostica

    Dei-Gnostica New Member

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    (thesuperjag;25520)
    Genesis 1 is a literal work...Thank you very much. God made animals, ANIMALS. God made man, MAN. God made plant, PLANTS. God made the sun, SUN. God made the moon, MOON.So your conclusion is very much flawed.
    All of which were made through natural scientific processes.... one of which is Evolution. So my conclusion is correct, and Genesis is not a literal work.
    Evolution is clearly sent by Satan...to deceive God's precious childrens.I Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:Jag
    The exact quote is: O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge "This is referring to the Roman understanding of gods and pagan rituals. The key here is what God wants us to know "what is falsely called knowledge", meaning that which has not been scientifically verified; such as a literal interpretating of Genesis. Evolution on the otherhand has been scientifically verified. Which is why it is not false knowledge and certainly has not been sent by Satan. Your quote proves my point. God bless. [​IMG]
     
  11. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;25527)
    Superjag, I realize it might be a lost cause to ask you to observe evidence, as you never have cared to before. Nevertheless, I beg you to come out from your delusion, and stop following the true tradition of man, which is falsehood.Instead, please, learn the facts, and work with them.This might be thought of by some as pearls to swine, as many have already suggested, but just the same, this isn't directed only to you, but to all reading this.Please, if you are of the mind that intelligent inquiry is not a path to distruction, but a path towards finding the Truth of God, then, again, I direct you to visitwww.talkorigins.organd of course, to take the time to view and consider the video on YouTube, and watch for the full 2 hours.http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSgIn hope,~Tyrel
    Mankind can not create facts. Only God creates facts. Mankind only creates falsehood. God can never create lies. Ge can only create Truth. Men without God can not have the Holy Spirit.I'll stick with the scriptures Tyrel. Go ask God for wisdom. At this rate, you will do just about anything to justify your beliefs to try to deceive as many as you can. Wake up from your own delusions.Matthew 7:3-5 - And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.Jag
     
  12. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (Dei-Gnostica;25530)
    All of which were made through natural scientific processes.... one of which is Evolution. So my conclusion is correct, and Genesis is not a literal work. The exact quote is: O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge "This is referring to the Roman understanding of gods and pagan rituals. The key here is what God wants us to know "what is falsely called knowledge", meaning that which has not been scientifically verified; such as a literal interpretating of Genesis. Evolution on the otherhand has been scientifically verified. Which is why it is not false knowledge and certainly has not been sent by Satan. Your quote proves my point. God bless. [​IMG]
    Ahmen. :cool:
     
  13. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    Matthew 23:13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.1 Corinthians 1:19-31: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.020: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?021: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
     
  14. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (thesuperjag;25532)
    Mankind can not create facts. Only God creates facts. Mankind only creates falsehood. God can never create lies. Ge can only create Truth. Men without God can not have the Holy Spirit.I'll stick with the scriptures Tyrel. Go ask God for wisdom. At this rate, you will do just about anything to justify your beliefs to try to deceive as many as you can. Wake up from your own delusions.Matthew 7:3-5 - And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.Jag
    Superjag, First, I'd like to thank you for being more clear, calm, and reasonable than I have ever seen you be before. I would like to point out that I think you are beginning to come into yourself. Now, as to what you are saying, I don't believe you are being entirely open yet to any new Ideas or concepts. I don't believe you know enough of my background to recognize how genuine I'm being, and how much I've been striving to find the Truth of God in all things.If you aren't open to considering anything I have to present, however, then what hope is there that our discussions will ever evolve?.. ok, I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself, please pardon the pun.In any case, I hope that one day we can find some common ground and reasonably converse on these matters. It can only happen when we are both open to each other. I'm open to what you have to say, so I suppose, I'm just sort of stuck waiting for you.In hope,~Tyrel
     
  15. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;25542)
    Superjag, First, I'd like to thank you for being more clear, calm, and reasonable than I have ever seen you be before. I would like to point out that I think you are beginning to come into yourself. Now, as to what you are saying, I don't believe you are being entirely open yet to any new Ideas or concepts. I don't believe you know enough of my background to recognize how genuine I'm being, and how much I've been striving to find the Truth of God in all things.If you aren't open to considering anything I have to present, however, then what hope is there that our discussions will ever evolve?.. ok, I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself, please pardon the pun.In any case, I hope that one day we can find some common ground and reasonably converse on these matters. It can only happen when we are both open to each other. I'm open to what you have to say, so I suppose, I'm just sort of stuck waiting for you.In hope,~Tyrel
    If there was such a thing as evolution, then the Lord would have included it in the Bible. No one is going to "open their mind" because we know that the Lord doesn't change, and hasn't changed.Proverbs 26:12 - Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;25542)
    (thesuperjag;25532)
    Mankind can not create facts. Only God creates facts. Mankind only creates falsehood. God can never create lies. Ge can only create Truth. Men without God can not have the Holy Spirit.I'll stick with the scriptures Tyrel. Go ask God for wisdom. At this rate, you will do just about anything to justify your beliefs to try to deceive as many as you can. Wake up from your own delusions.Matthew 7:3-5 - And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.Jag
    Superjag,First, I'd like to thank you for being more clear, calm, and reasonable than I have ever seen you be before. I would like to point out that I think you are beginning to come into yourself.Now, as to what you are saying, I don't believe you are being entirely open yet to any new Ideas or concepts. I don't believe you know enough of my background to recognize how genuine I'm being, and how much I've been striving to find the Truth of God in all things.If you aren't open to considering anything I have to present, however, then what hope is there that our discussions will ever evolve?.. ok, I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself, please pardon the pun.In any case, I hope that one day we can find some common ground and reasonably converse on these matters. It can only happen when we are both open to each other. I'm open to what you have to say, so I suppose, I'm just sort of stuck waiting for you.In hope,~TyrelI will never listen to your lies.Jude 1:9 - Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.Jag
     
  17. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (Wakka;25544)
    If there was such a thing as evolution, then the Lord would have included it in the Bible. No one is going to "open their mind" because we know that the Lord doesn't change, and hasn't changed.Proverbs 26:12 - Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
    Let's test that assumption shall we?If the planet revolved around the sun, the Bible would have said so. True or false?If the earth was really round, the Bible would have said so. True or False?If black holes existed, the Bible would have said so. True or False?Only Evolution is under attack by you. Why? Because of your understanding of the Bible. Your very false understanding of the Torah. The Bible is not a book which includes within it everything about everything, or even everything about the Gospel {John 21:25}In Hope,~Tyrel
     
  18. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;25549)
    Let's test that assumption shall we?If the planet revolved around the sun, the Bible would have said so. True or false?If the earth was really round, the Bible would have said so. True or False?If black holes existed, the Bible would have said so. True or False?Only Evolution is under attack by you. Why? Because of your understanding of the Bible. Your very false understanding of the Torah. The Bible is not a book which includes within it everything about everything, or even everything about the Gospel {John 21:25}In Hope,~Tyrel
    Ezekiel 13:3 - Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!None of those things contradict of what is taught in the Bible. Evolution contradicts the whole creation. The Bible is the word of God, and I'd rather listen to God than the wisdom of men.And the Bible does mention a round earth.Now concerning evolution, let's see where else the Bible mentions the creation.1 Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.Luke 3:38 - Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.Tell me something, how do you study the word of God?
     
  19. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (Wakka;25554)
    None of those things contradict of what is taught in the Bible. It is the word of God, and I'd rather listen to God than the wisdom of men.And the Bible does mention a round earth.
    Isaiah says something about it being a circle, not a sphere, and it was clearly not understood by the authors to be what it actually is.However, that aside, nothing in the Bible contradicts evolution at all. Only your understanding of the Torah, which is quite flawed, is leading you to think that.
     
  20. Dei-Gnostica

    Dei-Gnostica New Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;25536)
    Ahmen. :cool:
    :cool:Amen my brother.
     
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