Creation vs. Evolution Apologetics

[Tyrel]

(Jonous;25415)
Hehe exactly the whole point, nobody can. Science is (or better should be) based on what can be observed and studied. Neither of those can be done when talking about the origin of life...Pay a visit here http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp and you will read some very interesting articles.Praise God.
Praise God? I agree to praise our Lord and give him worship, but you honestly submit that as proper to be proud of?Please, visit www.talkorigins.organswersingenesis is much better than Dr. Dino, but it remains nonobjective and unscientific in it's approach. It also makes some very misleading claims. Notice that scientists who don't begin as creation scientists or proponents of ID, or scientists of the "critical analysis of Evolution" movement {which are all Carbon copies of each other} don't ever become convinced on the basis of science that their propositions are correct.Basically, no scientist who begins his search objectively ends up having the conclusions that these movements have. Period. You need to begin with a conclusion to get a conclusion so clearly in contrast with all the evidence.I know you aren't a science student, however, I sincerely recommend going to www.talkorigins.orgFurthermore, I would suggest, once again, that you take 2 hours of your life, sit back, and watch this fairly enjoyable video of Ken Miller being a guest speaker concerning this issue.http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSgIn Hope,~Tyrel

 

[Dei-Gnostica]

(Wakka;25430)
Evolution is false. However, adaptation is true, and given to us by God. It allows all of His creatures to adapt to their surroundings. Like, when a dog moves north, it's fur thickens. But if a dog lives in the north for a long period of time, you might see some more changes. Changes occur for birds, cats, and humans. For ALL creatures. We just didn't come from monkeys.
Adaptation are features that allow us to cope with our environment. How we got those features is Evolution. Our common ancestors to apes moved to new environments that allowed them to adapt into homo sapiens: us humans.All this happened by the will of God.

 

[Wakka]

(Dei-Gnostica;25452)
Adaptation are features that allow us to cope with our environment. How we got those features is Evolution. Our common ancestors to apes moved to new environments that allowed them to adapt into homo sapiens: us humans.All this happened by the will of God.
Wrong. Evolution is a stretched truth of adaptation. We do not come from apes. You can't get a lizzard to grow wings and turn into a bird. Besides, through adaptation we got all of our species. And Dinosaurs can be explained through Christian science, not evolution.

 

[Tyrel]

(Wakka;25462)
Wrong. Evolution is a stretched truth of adaptation. We do not come from apes. You can't get a lizzard to grow wings and turn into a bird. Besides, through adaptation we got all of our species. And Dinosaurs can be explained through Christian science, not evolution.
You are unfortunately mistaken. Please, allow me to explain, and please consider critically and carefully what I am saying.First, Evolution itself is the observable method of adaptation. The Evolutionary theory of origins is a supported theory, but Biologically speaking, evolution is a superbiological fact.You speak as though you think we came from apes. What apes? We didn't come from chimpanzees, or gorilla's. We evolved from an ape-like ancestor which likewise evolved into today's Chimps, Gorillas and Orangutans. We literally share their genes, having Identical patterns in the Genome. The only chromosome discrepancy we had previously observed was the fact that we have one fewer chromosome pairs than do these supposed "relatives" of us, who evolved from the same ancestor. We now know that the Fusion site is clearly found in Chromosome pair #2. The only way for the ID to explain this is to simply cop out and say "well, that's just the way the designer made it". Think about that.. conveniently God made our chromosomes to look exactly as though it was a carbon copy of the Chimpanzee genome, and the one place where it is different, is observably a fusion site of the exact chromosome pair which we are "missing". Quite weak. In the words of Superjag; God is not the author of confusion.Furthermore, you can get a lizard growing wings, with natural selection. Don't be mistaken here, and fall into the great lie; we have observed one species split, and both factions evolve into two new respective species, as we define species.Finally, you speak of Dinosaurs as though evolutionary theory cannot account for them, but then claim that creationism can account for them. First, evolutionary theory does account for Dinosaurs, and creationism does not. Now, the argument from the famous Dr. Dino {who I've seen live when he came to Quebec}, is that in the book of Job we might find traces of knowledge about dinosaur like creatures. Whether that is true or not, however, doesn't really matter. I won't even challenge that for now. I'll give you a chance. Please, let's experiment. Let's imagine that Evolutionary theory {of origins}, is actually false. Ok, so it's completely false.Now, please, attempt to prove creation given the fossil record, and the geological evidences {I'll let slide the anthropological evidences, and the biological evidences}. Attempt to establish Creationism as a feasible explanation given only the fossil record, and geological evidences.Please, recall that disproving evolution does not in any way at all support creationism, and thus, if you use the attacks from ID scientists, such as Michael Behe's biochemical challenge to evolution, that won't help to support your case at all. Please, given the evidences, show how anyone could possibly come up with any conclusion apart from evolution... nay, forget that, please SIMPLY show how anyone could come to the conclusion of creationism, given the scientific data.In Hope,~Tyrel

 

[Jonous]

(Biblical Tetragramaton;25464)
Please, given the evidences, show how anyone could possibly come up with any conclusion apart from evolution... nay, forget that, please SIMPLY show how anyone could come to the conclusion of creationism, given the scientific data.
Okay where are the skeletons, bones any evidence of creatures in the process of changing, eg animals that were once in the water and then ended up on land. We should have found fishes with gradually shrinking fins or growing legs or something. Has anyone found skeletons of such "in the process" animals? Don't think so.Scientific data? Please! Why don't you take 57min instead of 2hrs (see made it even easier) of your life, sit back, and watch this fairly enjoyable video ?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr6uvUNJLwwPraise God is irrelevant with what I have posted, it's a common expression I use.

 

[Tyrel]

(Jonous;25474)
Okay where are the skeletons, bones any evidence of creatures in the process of changing, eg animals that were once in the water and then ended up on land. We should have found fishes with gradually shrinking fins or growing legs or something. Has anyone found skeletons of such "in the process" animals? Don't think so.Scientific data? Please! Why don't you take 57min instead of 2hrs (see made it even easier) of your life, sit back, and watch this fairly enjoyable video ?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr6uvUNJLwwPraise God is irrelevant with what I have posted, it's a common expression I use.
Jonus, there are entire lists of all such fossils of intermediary states at www.talkorigins.org, and furthermore such specimens are discussed with regards to relevance by Ken Miller in the Video on youtube to which I have conveniently linked in various previous posts. I have already presented the evidence which you have asked me for, or at least have presented you with a very readily available means to observe these evidences. Don't be an Ostrich.Now, in order to not be a hypocrite, and because I'm genuinely curious, I'm going to watch your video and give you my honest feedback. I would like to point out though, that I was until fairly recently an ardent Creationist, and used both theological rationalization, and scientific argumentation, to support my standing, so I can likely anticipate exactly what the video will be like. I also know and respect an intelligent Cell Biologist at Merk Frost who hosts Bible studies at his house out of good will, and I must say I've heard his arguments for his side of the case as well. With that, I leave the judgment of my character in your hands, but I appeal to you and call you to both recognize that I am being as genuine as I can be, and that there is evidence galore just awaiting you if you would simply search for the truth. I have yet to find anyone who can come to the conclusion on the basis of Scientific inquiry that the assumptions of the fundamentalist notion of Creationism is empirically determined and true. Not one.In Hope,~Tyrel

 

[Tyrel]

Ah, I've seen this many times before... I wonder... Did you even watch this debate fully? It is very apparent, at least to me, that the Christian from McGill standing on the side of evolution is being much more genuine and true to the nature of science, whereas the other is being intellectually brilliant, but not accepting the inevitable conclusion that he is not being objective, but is supporting a conclusion with what evidences he can find, or finds he is able to construe, which supports his position.I much respect both sides of this debate. However, notice that even Michael Behe testifies under oath, that the definition of science must be changed in order to even bring "ID" into the strikezone of science, and along with it comes such things as astrology. He said this under oath, more than once.Let us not play coy. I'm going to watch your video over again just to be sure I have a fresh recollection of all of it. Please, take the time and consider watching the video I posted, and perhaps dare to take a peak at the lists of intermediary fossils for whales, and all other creatures, at www.talkorigins.orgthe best to you,~Tyrel

 

[oldertim]

Hi all,I am a retired chemist, and a God called pastor. I have been dealing with creation vs. evolution issues since the early 1980's. We deal extensively with the evolution myth on our website, the website of the Mexico Beach Christian Worship Center.Evolution is a myth as the Bible declares in Romans 1 and 2 Peter 3.We have posted two photos of the pieces of Noah's Ark also, which are located near the eastern summit of Mt. Ararat, right where we would expect them to be. Blessings to all,Oldertim

 

[Tyrel]

(oldertim;25487)
Hi all,I am a retired chemist, and a God called pastor. I have been dealing with creation vs. evolution issues since the early 1980's. We deal extensively with the evolution myth on our website, the website of the Mexico Beach Christian Worship Center.Evolution is a myth as the Bible declares in Romans 1 and 2 Peter 3.We have posted two photos of the pieces of Noah's Ark also, which are located near the eastern summit of Mt. Ararat, right where we would expect them to be. Blessings to all,Oldertim
First, your credentials are questionable. Why are you a retired Chemist? Who did you work for, and what on? Where did you get your degree? What doctors of science have you worked with?Second, I'll let the Bible make my point for me.Romans 1:" 1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit[a] of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. 7To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.Paul's Longing to Visit Rome 8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you. 11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. 13I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles. 14I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome. 16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[c] just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."[d]God's Wrath Against Mankind 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.Footnotes: 1. Romans 1:4 Or who as to his spirit 2. Romans 1:4 Or was appointed to be the Son of God with power 3. Romans 1:17 Or is from faith to faith 4. Romans 1:17 Hab. 2:4"2 Peter 3:"The Day of the Lord 1Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. 3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a] 11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.Footnotes: 1. 2 Peter 3:10 Some manuscripts be burned up 2. 2 Peter 3:12 Or as you wait eagerly for the day of God to come"Anything about Evolution in there at all? I think I can let the Bible speak to the ingenuity of that one post hit and run cop out.Please, I will redirect you all again to the video available now on YouTube, and to the www.talkorigins.org, which are both geared specifically to this audience, to address these issues. Please consider carefully and critically consider.

 

[Wakka]

(Biblical Tetragramaton;25464)
You are unfortunately mistaken. Please, allow me to explain, and please consider critically and carefully what I am saying.First, Evolution itself is the observable method of adaptation. The Evolutionary theory of origins is a supported theory, but Biologically speaking, evolution is a superbiological fact.You speak as though you think we came from apes. What apes? We didn't come from chimpanzees, or gorilla's. We evolved from an ape-like ancestor which likewise evolved into today's Chimps, Gorillas and Orangutans. We literally share their genes, having Identical patterns in the Genome. The only chromosome discrepancy we had previously observed was the fact that we have one fewer chromosome pairs than do these supposed "relatives" of us, who evolved from the same ancestor. We now know that the Fusion site is clearly found in Chromosome pair #2. The only way for the ID to explain this is to simply cop out and say "well, that's just the way the designer made it". Think about that.. conveniently God made our chromosomes to look exactly as though it was a carbon copy of the Chimpanzee genome, and the one place where it is different, is observably a fusion site of the exact chromosome pair which we are "missing". Quite weak. In the words of Superjag; God is not the author of confusion.Furthermore, you can get a lizard growing wings, with natural selection. Don't be mistaken here, and fall into the great lie; we have observed one species split, and both factions evolve into two new respective species, as we define species.Finally, you speak of Dinosaurs as though evolutionary theory cannot account for them, but then claim that creationism can account for them. First, evolutionary theory does account for Dinosaurs, and creationism does not. Now, the argument from the famous Dr. Dino {who I've seen live when he came to Quebec}, is that in the book of Job we might find traces of knowledge about dinosaur like creatures. Whether that is true or not, however, doesn't really matter. I won't even challenge that for now. I'll give you a chance. Please, let's experiment. Let's imagine that Evolutionary theory {of origins}, is actually false. Ok, so it's completely false.Now, please, attempt to prove creation given the fossil record, and the geological evidences {I'll let slide the anthropological evidences, and the biological evidences}. Attempt to establish Creationism as a feasible explanation given only the fossil record, and geological evidences.Please, recall that disproving evolution does not in any way at all support creationism, and thus, if you use the attacks from ID scientists, such as Michael Behe's biochemical challenge to evolution, that won't help to support your case at all. Please, given the evidences, show how anyone could possibly come up with any conclusion apart from evolution... nay, forget that, please SIMPLY show how anyone could come to the conclusion of creationism, given the scientific data.In Hope,~Tyrel
So you're saying that Adam was an ape like creature? That's hard to believe. Considering that he was formed from the image of God.I'm sorry, but evolution has to be the biggest lie ever.

 

[Tyrel]

(Wakka;25490)
So you're saying that Adam was an ape like creature? That's hard to believe. Considering that he was formed from the image of God.I'm sorry, but evolution has to be the biggest lie ever.
Dear Wakka,First of all, you have failed here to provide an adequate polemic at all. You have not dealt with the facts, and you come to the conclusion that the evolutionary theory of origins must be a lie, nay, even the greatest lie ever, and Furthermore, what do you understand as the image of God? Do you think it's physical image? That's ridiculous!! That would mean that any human missing arms and legs born that way is lesser like the image of God. No, the Image of God is very clearly not a physical thing. Please, do a Bible study on the Image of God, and see what you find.Second, who said I thought Adam was an ape like ancestor? Nobody. You haven't asked me what I believe concerning Genesis, nor do you, I imagine, even care to at this point. Your are stuck in a trap. You have a poisonous paradigm. You are content to blindly adhere to your understanding of Genesis as the only true and biblical understanding of Genesis, when that is very obviously not true. You are likely not open to testing your beliefs with evidence, or else you would be giddy as a school child to examine the evidences I have here brought up.Please, as a final note for now, as I return to watching the video I was directed to {Which I'm having loads of fun watching and considering}, I would just like to put out there that I was a very ardent creationist, and continue now to be a Christian with an evolved theological understanding (if you'll pardon the pun), of the Scriptures. What lead me to accept evolution? Evidence! I would like to stress at this point though, that the evidence I refer to is both scientific and theological.My life story can be put on hold for now, but my background in faith is Baptist, and I am a member of a Baptist church in my area, long time member, I was an ardent creationist, and the only thing which helped me come to an alternate conclusion was my own personal inquiry and search for truth.In Hope,~Tyrel

 

[Christina]

(Wakka;25490)
So you're saying that Adam was an ape like creature? That's hard to believe. Considering that he was formed from the image of God.I'm sorry, but evolution has to be the biggest lie ever.
I am with you there Wakka if evolution exists wheres the missing link? And by the way if you find a fossil of a snail guess what it looks just like todays snailOh yeah thats right evolution is a theroy.

 

[Jordan]

(Kriss;25495)
(Wakka;25490)
So you're saying that Adam was an ape like creature? That's hard to believe. Considering that he was formed from the image of God.I'm sorry, but evolution has to be the biggest lie ever.
I am with you there Wakka if evolution exists wheres the missing link?And by the way if you find a fossil of a snail guess what it looks just like todays snailOh yeah thats right evolution is a theroy.I can't agree with you there. I do agree that Evolution is false and a lie. But nowhere compared to the biggest liar on Earth. (Actually he is in Heaven right now)Look at John 8:44Jag

 

[Lunar]

Since Biblical Tetragramaton seems to have said more or less everything that I'd want to say and much more clearly at that, I'll simply add one last, related tidbit of opinion:I don't particularly have a problem with people denying evolution or supporting creationism, but I do have a problem with their advocating creationism being taught as science in public schools.

 

[Tyrel]

(kriss;25495)
I am with you there Wakka if evolution exists wheres the missing link? And by the way if you find a fossil of a snail guess what it looks just like todays snailOh yeah thats right evolution is a theroy.
Dear Kriss, With full, due, and sincere respect, I have referred people back to www.talkorigins.org for this very reason; to observe entire compiled lists of intermediary fossils.Also, you clearly don't understand the word Theory as it applies in Science. Gravity, astrophysics, these are also scientific theories. Theories by definition are based on facts, but they are have a higher standing than facts, because their purpose is to adequately explain entire series of facts. Evolutionary theory explains all the facts, and gets support, just as does Gravity.Now, much the same points might be leveled against the theory of Gravity as are leveled against the theory of evolution. For example, the theory of Gravity is observed only here on earth, and perhaps has been on the moon. One might claim, however, that they contest the part of Gravity which dictates that the larger the planet, the greater the gravitational pull on objects it has. One might say that after a certain amount of pull, significantly larger objects actually do not pull significantly more. Such that Jupiter might not crush us, as gravitational pull can only be so great, and pans out after a certain level. Likewise people can claim that they do not feel pulled towards other such objects, many times larger than they are, at all.This type of attack is exactly how the attacks on evolution are seen by the scientific community. First, they are not based on seeking the truth, based on observable facts, testing, and finally creating workable theory which beautifully explains this phenomena, but rather is based on only skepticism, and is certainly not empirical. Why, then, does the attack on gravity sound so clearly wrong to the evangelical ears? It is because there is no religious assumption which negates or excludes Gravity. Evolution is attacked much in the same way as the earth being round was attacked, and of course Creationism will fall away just as Geocentricity fell away.Please, I cannot stress enough that you look into the facts, pray about it, read the Bible in light of the different propositions from different sides, and see what you come to objectively. I say this, realizing it assumes you haven't done so already, because you have shown clearly that you lack understanding of scientific theory, and thus, I imagine, have not spent any significant bout of time practicing scientific inquiry.In Hope,~Tyrel

 

[Wakka]

(thesuperjag;25496)
I can't agree with you there. I do agree that Evolution is false and a lie. But nowhere compared to the biggest liar on Earth. (Actually he is in Heaven right now)Look at John 8:44Jag
You know what I mean.

Of course Satan is the father of lies.

 

[Tyrel]

(Lunar;25497)
Since Biblical Tetragramaton seems to have said more or less everything that I'd want to say and much more clearly at that, I'll simply add one last, related tidbit of opinion:I don't particularly have a problem with people denying evolution or supporting creationism, but I do have a problem with their advocating creationism being taught as science in public schools.
Dear Lunar,Thank you kindly for that, and may I just say; I think you perhaps do not have the same opinion as me. Allow me to respectfully explain;I, personally, do have a huge problem with advocating creationism. I believe that God is the God of Truth, and has provided us with minds capable of inquiry and discovery. I believe he is not an author of confusion, but an author of beauty, albeit perhaps cryptic, and foolish to those who are perishing. I believe that the Truth will set us free. As such, I cannot endorse creationism. Now, this is not because I dislike the doctrinal implications or theological implications which it carries. It's not that at all. To put it simply, I believe that creationism serves to further blind people to the true nature and purpose of science, and works to create a false dichotomy between science and The Lord our God. God created the world. Sure, sometimes our understanding of the Bible, or of simply our faith, makes it harder to accept inevitable scientific conclusions, such as the earth being round, the earth revolving around the sun, or most recently evolution. However, the paradigm shift if what I mean most specifically to address. I have met Creationists and was one, and know intimately how they think, and how they see the world. It is not, by any means, a bad or evil view. However, it hinders honest inquiry such that it makes one believe they are honestly seeking answers objectively, when in fact they do not know how to objectively seek answers.I can accept that Christians believe various doctrines which I think are folly, such as the KJV being inspired and the other translations all wrong, or the Communion of the Saints and the allowance of petitions directed towards them. What I cannot accept is that evangelicals are creating and enforcing an absolutely horrendously wrong dichotomy, which stunts, or makes difficult, a Christian's capacity to critically consider these things. It handicaps them by providing arguments which misconstrue science itself, along with scientific data {notice many have already asked about the fossil record, being obviously completely ignorant of the entire lists of intermediary forms available even online for them to examine}, which leads to many not having a proper understanding of these issues. The other thing it does is makes fundamentalist assumptions seem to be the only acceptable theological assumptions available, and makes everything else appear "half-assed" so to speak. In fact, Christians who accept evolution are, in my opinion and experience, much more informed about their faith, and are much more comfortable with critical analysis and honest inquiry.All that said, note that I am not attacking you at all, I simply would like to place the proper emphasis on creationism here, and that is that it is not a theologically acceptable proposition in light of the abundance of evidence God has graciously made available to us.In Hope,~Tyrel

 

[Wakka]

(Biblical Tetragramaton;25494)
Dear Wakka,First of all, you have failed here to provide an adequate polemic at all. You have not dealt with the facts, and you come to the conclusion that the evolutionary theory of origins must be a lie, nay, even the greatest lie ever, and Furthermore, what do you understand as the image of God? Do you think it's physical image? That's ridiculous!! That would mean that any human missing arms and legs born that way is lesser like the image of God. No, the Image of God is very clearly not a physical thing. Please, do a Bible study on the Image of God, and see what you find.Second, who said I thought Adam was an ape like ancestor? Nobody. You haven't asked me what I believe concerning Genesis, nor do you, I imagine, even care to at this point. Your are stuck in a trap. You have a poisonous paradigm. You are content to blindly adhere to your understanding of Genesis as the only true and biblical understanding of Genesis, when that is very obviously not true. You are likely not open to testing your beliefs with evidence, or else you would be giddy as a school child to examine the evidences I have here brought up.Please, as a final note for now, as I return to watching the video I was directed to {Which I'm having loads of fun watching and considering}, I would just like to put out there that I was a very ardent creationist, and continue now to be a Christian with an evolved theological understanding (if you'll pardon the pun), of the Scriptures. What lead me to accept evolution? Evidence! I would like to stress at this point though, that the evidence I refer to is both scientific and theological.My life story can be put on hold for now, but my background in faith is Baptist, and I am a member of a Baptist church in my area, long time member, I was an ardent creationist, and the only thing which helped me come to an alternate conclusion was my own personal inquiry and search for truth.In Hope,~Tyrel
Sorry, I chose to follow the Bible whole heartedly a while back. You can call me a puritan or a super conservative, doesn't matter. I still don't believe evolution is a reality. I know that adaptation is created by the Lord (what you call "micro-evolution").Wouldn't the earliest of creatures bleed to death? certainly they wouldn't have formed clotting factors yet. And why have we evolved to super-creatures while the other creatures are still at their basic stages. How on earth would a few atoms combine and sustain a primitive life form without anything to "feed" it. I mean, before single celled organisms, there would be atomic organisms. It only makes sense. So much about evolution is still missing, that it doesn't even work out. There are so many factors that could come into play that chance couldn't have created it. There must have been an intellectual being that created us.

 

[Tyrel]

(Wakka;25504)
Sorry, I chose to follow the Bible whole heartedly a while back. You can call me a puritan or a super conservative, doesn't matter. I still don't believe evolution is a reality. I know that adaptation is created by the Lord (what you call "micro-evolution").Wouldn't the earliest of creatures bleed to death? certainly they wouldn't have formed clotting factors yet. And why have we evolved to super-creatures while the other creatures are still at their basic stages. How on earth would a few atoms combine and sustain a primitive life form without anything to "feed" it. I mean, before single celled organisms, there would be atomic organisms. It only makes sense. So much about evolution is still missing, that it doesn't even work out. There are so many factors that could come into play that chance couldn't have created it. There must have been an intellectual being that created us.
Dear Wakka,Every single one of those questions is already answered, and furthermore nothing is not addressed in the only two sources I have provided you with. Furthermore, you speak of evolution as though you think it to be bringing life to be what it is, "by chance". This is a gross, yet unfortunately all too common, misunderstanding of evolution. NOTHING is accidental or by chance. That is the very thing that Natural selection speaks to. For a tidbit, let me give you a brief reference to the Video Ken Miller speech, which will hopefully kindle interest. He speaks about blood clotting and the argument from irreducible complexity. Please, don't be an ostrich, check it out, and learn something new. Don't be afraid.I believe in the Bible absolutely 100% as well. That is not in question here. What is in question is your particular understanding of the Bible. You obviously are yet another victim who has unfortunately accepted the false Dichotomy of which I spoke. Do you think I believe in the Bible less than you do? If you say yes, you are obviously judging me before hearing me out at all. As I said before, stop up your ears and grab a blindfold, or else away the blindfold from your eyes, and observe the greatness of the light of Truth and Reason.In hope,~Tyrel

 

[Jordan]

(Biblical Tetragramaton;25510)
Dear Wakka,Every single one of those questions is already answered, and furthermore nothing is not addressed in the only two sources I have provided you with. Furthermore, you speak of evolution as though you think it to be bringing life to be what it is, "by chance". This is a gross, yet unfortunately all too common, misunderstanding of evolution. NOTHING is accidental or by chance. That is the very thing that Natural selection speaks to. For a tidbit, let me give you a brief reference to the Video Ken Miller speech, which will hopefully kindle interest. He speaks about blood clotting and the argument from irreducible complexity. Please, don't be an ostrich, check it out, and learn something new. Don't be afraid.I believe in the Bible absolutely 100% as well. That is not in question here. What is in question is your particular understanding of the Bible. You obviously are yet another victim who has unfortunately accepted the false Dichotomy of which I spoke. Do you think I believe in the Bible less than you do? If you say yes, you are obviously judging me before hearing me out at all. As I said before, stop up your ears and grab a blindfold, or else away the blindfold from your eyes, and observe the greatness of the light of Truth and Reason.In hope,~Tyrel
If you believe in the bible 100% you wouldn't be speaking a teaching the tradition of men. The false doctrine. Whether you like it or not, The Truth always rebuke a lie.Jag