Critical thinking and education is linked to loss of faith

[APAK]

You seem to struggle with the concept of ONE thing manifesting as 2 different opposing qualities. Not sure how to make it more simple to understand TBH. Light and dark are extreme ends of the same thing. As said in prev post, you can not have light without dark. The existence of darkness is a prerequisite for light and vice-versa. If Christianity believes you can simply eradicate one then it is fundamentally in error which would be no surprise for most of the mainstream doctrine equally doesn't stand up to rational analysis. You must surely have enough intrinsic innate reasoning to realise that you can not have UP if there is no DOWN for with the down, there is nothing to come up from. You can not have light without darkness for the same reason. Light is the increasing absence of dark and vice-versa. They are gradations of the same thing. Sound and silence likewise. These are quite simple concepts in all honesty.

It follows then that there can not exist a truly benevolent being without there being an opposing wicked being. For if there were no wicked being the concept of benevolence would be meaningless. No good can exist without evil equally existing. Good is the absence of evil and vice-versa. To deny this most basic concept is to deny the reality around you.

Your major premise is flawed. You presuppose that the Christian God lives as his natural inhabitance in this time-space, and where you are correct when you say we have lightness and darkness co-existing. If you can widen your lens and view you can know that our God only truly exists in light with never darkness, and up is always up with no downside...It is because of the 'fallen' imperfect state we inhabit today we do see polarities, opposites ands extremities. And this 'fallen' state occurred before mankind. It occurred because of the 'fallen' angels and the war into this Universe.

So you are consistently applying incorrect primitive logic to your discussion and hoping for a logic outcome, or you have convinced yourself your logic is sound and non-negotiable.

 

[Lapidem]

Your major premise is flawed. You presuppose that the Christian God lives as his natural inhabitance in this time-space, and where you are correct when you say we have lightness and darkness co-existing. If you can widen your lens and view you can know that our God only truly exists in light with never darkness, and up is always up with no downside...It is because of the 'fallen' imperfect state we inhabit today we do see polarities, opposites ands extremities. And this 'fallen' state occurred before mankind. It occurred because of the 'fallen' angels and the war into this Universe.

So you are consistently applying incorrect primitive logic to your discussion and hoping for a logic outcome, or you have convinced yourself your logic is sound and non-negotiable.

No nothing you posited there changes what I have said. If there is the concept of light then there MUST be darkness also. I quite concede that a person can exist in the light or in the dark if they so choose, but there MUST always be both for one can not exist without the other. Light and dark are degrees of the same thing. Similarly there can not be a concept of "up" if there isn't a down to be up from. You can stand at the top of a ladder and be perpetually up if you wish, but doing so doesn't make down disappear. You can only every be up BECAUSE there is a down. This really isn't difficult.

 

[APAK]

No nothing you posited there changes what I have said. If there is the concept of light then there MUST be darkness also. I quite concede that a person can exist in the light or in the dark if they so choose, but there MUST always bee both for one can not exist without the other. Light and dark are degrees of the same thing. Similarly there can not be a concept of "up" if there isn't a down to be up from. You can stand at the top of a ladder and be perpetually up if you wish, but doing so doesn't make down disappear. You can only every be up BECAUSE there is a down. This really isn't difficult.

Ok, stick with your 3-D Time continuum and environment as I see your lens cannot see beyond it.

Happy Trails

 

[Lapidem]

If you can widen your lens and view you can know that our God only truly exists in light with never darkness

God never existed in darkness?

Hmm

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness."

Not that this is any kind of literal passage of course but if we're going to pander to Christian dogma then there's your proof that God exists in both light and dark.

 

[APAK]

God never existed in darkness?

Hmm

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness."

Not that this is any kind of literal passage of course but if we're going to pander to Christian dogma then there's your proof that God exists in both light and dark.

Again God only truly exists in the true living light. In fact he lives in light that is unapproachable. I do not contradict myself even though I can see why you think so because of your limited view of God and his presence outside our reach and comprehension.

The (one) scripture for this is 1 Tim 6:16 "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen."

Now back to your limited lens that only includes the fallen creation of 3D Space-Time we now live in....

In Gen 1:2 the translated English word from the Hebrew of 'darkness' should have been more like, emptiness, lifeless...void of life. And in verses 3 and 4, this is the light we know as the Sun and indirectly via the moon.....and the word 'darkness' here is more appropriate.

Now you must realize that God actually is outside of time in his natural state and also can simultaneously is present here in this fallen 3-D Universe.

He used and extended his power of his own Holy Spirit to recreate or redo the earth so it would become habitable and then sustain life as he desired, including human life. And the rest is history...

So no, God never and does not exist in the 3D manufactured light, as well as the darkness, ever...!

I hope this helps to clear more weeds of the jungle of your mind...

Great Day to you and the weekend ahead...

 

[Lapidem]

Again God only truly exists in the true living light. In fact he lives in light that is unapproachable. I do not contradict myself even though I can see why you think so because of your limited view of God and his presence outside our reach and comprehension.

The (one) scripture for this is 1 Tim 6:16 "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen."

Now back to your limited lens that only includes the fallen creation of 3D Space-Time we now live in....

In Gen 1:2 the translated English word from the Hebrew of 'darkness' should have been more like, emptiness, lifeless...void of life. And in verses 3 and 4, this is the light we know as the Sun and indirectly via the moon.....and the word 'darkness' here is more appropriate.

Now you must realize that God actually is outside of time in his natural state and also can simultaneously is present here in this fallen 3-D Universe.

He used and extended his power of his own Holy Spirit to recreate or redo the earth so it would become habitable and then sustain life as he desired, including human life. And the rest is history...

So no, God never and does not exist in the 3D manufactured light, as well as the darkness, ever...!

I hope this helps to clear more weeds of the jungle of your mind...

Great Day to you and the weekend ahead...

I would at this point attempt to explain to you what the words in Genesis are really talking about but I can sense from the tone of your posts and the veiled sarcasm that you're not ready for it. Genesis is NOT talking about the creation of the universe. The "Heavens" and "Earth" and the "Mist/Spirit" and "Dew" and "Rain" and the "light" are ALL allegorical terms. The collection of passages are explaining the alchemical processes for creating the Philosopher's Stone, Elixir Of Life. You'd need to be versed in alchemical terminology to see and understand the hidden and rather sacred message. You need the "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" that Jesus spoke of. Until then you'll remain locked in the nonsense of the literal reading of the texts. You presumably also think Noah actually built a physical ark and stuffed specimens of every living animal in it ? Bless you. I can't mock because years ago I too was locked in this false indoctrination until I found the right eyes to see with.

 

[amadeus]

God never existed in darkness?

Ps 139:11	If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Ps 139:12	Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

 

[Lapidem]

Isaiah 45:7

"The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these."

Isaiah 45:3

“I will give you the treasures of darkness
And hidden wealth of secret places,
So that you may know that it is I,
The Lord, the God of Israel, who calls you by your name"

 

[Wrangler]

Genesis is NOT talking about the creation of the universe.

Yes, Genesis IS talking about Creation. A more scientific term might be universe, all that exists, of which God is a part.

However, as @APAK tried to explain, God exists outside his Creation also. It's difficult for us material mortals to comprehend an existence that is outside the physical universe we inhabit where time and darkness have no meaning. That is where your assumptions are myopic. So, let me ask you, have you ever experienced the divine, the supernatural, Providence as the Declaration of Independence invokes?

 

[APAK]

Могу я связаться с администрацией?
Речь идет о рекламе на вашем сайте.
Спасибо.

Вы не можете размещать рекламу на этом сайте... извините.
You cannot advertise on this site. I'm sorry

 

[Lapidem]

Yes, Genesis IS talking about Creation. A more scientific term might be universe, all that exists, of which God is a part.

No, it really isn't. It's not literal. It's allegorical and cryptic. It describes the processes for creating the Philosopher's Stone. It does so using the same allegorical terms that the Quran does and the Bhagavad Gita and the works of other religions. They are all in harmony.

We will have to agree to disagree. I pray that you will gain the "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" that Jesus said were needed to understand the mysteries of the kingdom.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You seem to struggle with the concept of ONE thing manifesting as 2 different opposing qualities. Not sure how to make it more simple to understand TBH. Light and dark are extreme ends of the same thing. As said in prev post, you can not have light without dark. The existence of darkness is a prerequisite for light and vice-versa. If Christianity believes you can simply eradicate one then it is fundamentally in error which would be no surprise for most of the mainstream doctrine equally doesn't stand up to rational analysis. You must surely have enough intrinsic innate reasoning to realise that you can not have UP if there is no DOWN for with the down, there is nothing to come up from. You can not have light without darkness for the same reason. Light is the increasing absence of dark and vice-versa. They are gradations of the same thing. Sound and silence likewise. These are quite simple concepts in all honesty.

It follows then that there can not exist a truly benevolent being without there being an opposing wicked being. For if there were no wicked being the concept of benevolence would be meaningless. No good can exist without evil equally existing. Good is the absence of evil and vice-versa. To deny this most basic concept is to deny the reality around you.

Sounds like one is getting trapped and going down in the Nazi like load of BS to me.

The Darkness and Light BS is of Mans works madness.

Is Jesus on about Darkness and Light ? Hell No ! Jesus is about him helping people up with him ! not driving them down.

 

[Lapidem]

Is Jesus on about Darkness and Light ? Hell No ! Jesus is about him helping people up with him ! not driving them down.

Indeed, but he's telling us how to get there through allegorical texts and parables because the secrets (mysteries) were not for everyone.
Many times when the Bible refers to "light" it's talking about the level of heat to use in the alchemical Opus Magnus (Great Work). Other times it's talking about wisdom and understanding. Unfortunately Jesus didn't deem the rest of humanity worthy of the precious thing he had and kept it for himself and his close allies (disciples etc). He used it to heal others, raise the recently deceased back to life and to transmute things. The teaching of this great secret went out into the world with the disciples but remain mostly secret for they feared what would happen if it fell into the wrong hands.

 

[BeyondET]

If you ask many religious people why they believe what they believe, they will tell you that it gives them a sense of purpose and certainty. Wouldn’t you agree?

Thats a bit different than coping with fear I'd say.

 

[BeyondET]

Indeed, but he's telling us how to get there through allegorical texts and parables because the secrets (mysteries) were not for everyone.
Many times when the Bible refers to "light" it's talking about the level of heat to use in the alchemical Opus Magnus (Great Work). Other times it's talking about wisdom and understanding. Unfortunately Jesus didn't deem the rest of humanity worthy of the precious thing he had and kept it for himself and his close allies (disciples etc). He used it to heal others, raise the recently deceased back to life and to transmute things. The teaching of this great secret went out into the world with the disciples but remain mostly secret for they feared what would happen if it fell into the wrong hands.

How could a great secret fall into the wrong hands?

 

[Romanov2488]

knowing there is a God is instinctive ......like feeling hungry.
Denying there is a God is a mental distortion.

Learning that God is on your side is a wonder

Are you instincts correct 100% of the time? If not, why think that your instinct of there being a God must be 100% right?

 

[Romanov2488]

Unconscious. The purpose of consciousness is not merely to integrate reality but to also differentiate reality.

Not one is not one with one.

Antonyms are not synonyms.

Light is not one with dark.

Right is not one with left or wrong.

Good is not one with evil.

Dead is not one with the living.

You can’t have any of those without its opposite though. Good needs evil for there to be good. There’s also a bit of evil in every good, and a bit of good in every evil.

God is not all good since he created Lucifer. Who cares if Lucifer took it upon himself to be evil? God knew he would already do that because God knows everything.

 

[Romanov2488]

Think in scientific terms mate, Einstein showed that time is stretchy and elastic, so 900 years in God-time may be much less in human time..
For example in this clip from 'Interstellar', McConaughey and Ann have just spent an hour or two on a planet near a massive black hole, and when they shuttle back to their mothership they're shocked to find that 23 years have passed for the crewman up there who's begun sprouting grey hairs-

So was Noah near a black hole since he lived to be 900?

 

[Romanov2488]

Not sure what you hope is in this Appeal to Majority?

Isn’t your belief in God appeal to authority?

 

[Wrangler]

You can’t have any of those without its opposite though. Good needs evil for there to be good. There’s also a bit of evil in every good, and a bit of good in every evil.

A lie.

It is Eastern philosophy, long identified as God forsaken.