Critical thinking and education is linked to loss of faith

[Titus]

You also deflected from where I mentioned that scientists in comparison to the general public, are less likely to believe in God.

Moot point.
You are making a false claim that if everyone was highly educated we would not believe in God.
Yet more scientists who are educated believe in a supernatural power than do not.

So you are basing your argument on a false premise

 

[Titus]

You’re lying. The source says nothing about scientists being educated. Also, you didn’t read this part: “More than 80 years later, Edward Larson, a historian of science then teaching at the University of Georgia, recreated Leuba’s survey, asking the same number of scientists the exact same questions. To the surprise of many, Larson’s 1996 poll came up with similar results, finding that 40% of scientists believed in a personal God, while 45% said they did not. Other surveys of scientists have yielded roughly similar results.”

You also deflected from where I mentioned that scientists in comparison to the general public, are less likely to believe in God.

I read some of the link. I will read the rest when I can.

The latest survey from your link is in a pie chart form.

Here is the results,
Among educated scientists who believe in God or a supernatural deity of some kind,
Scientists are as follows,
Evangelical protestant 4
Mainline protestant 16
Catholic. 10
Jewish 8
Nothing in particular 20
= 68 % of scientists who are educated

Results of educated scientists who are unbelievers
Atheist 17
Agnostic 11
Don't know 4
= 32% of scientists who are educated

Now, you want to hold to your accusation that I'm a liar?

 

[Romanov2488]

The article says nothing about deism. Now you say you’re not a liar, just didn’t read the link. And I’m the one jumping to conclusions? Come on. Since you want to focus solely on more scientists believing in God than not, here is a meta analysis of 63 studies showing a negative relationship between intelligence and religiosity:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0146167219879122

 

[Romanov2488]

Moot point.
You are making a false claim that if everyone was highly educated we would not believe in God.
Yet more scientists who are educated believe in a supernatural power than do not.

So you are basing your argument on a false premise

It’s a false premise to assume that being more educated means more religious due to more educated scientists believing in God than not. I just provided a link to a meta analysis on 63 studies showing a flat out negative relationship between religiosity and intelligence. Forget scientists, forget general public.

 

[Titus]

The article says nothing about deism

Among believing educated scientists 20% are nothing in particular
Meaning these scientists who are believers do not hold to a particular religion.
That would include deists.

Since you want to focus solely on more scientists believing in God than not, here is a meta analysis of 63 studies showing a negative relationship between intelligence and religiosity:

This is a futile attempt to change the subject, that more educated scientists believe in a supernatural being than other non-believing scientists.

The survey dis-proved your position, yet you wont admit it.
You should tell all these educated scientists that believe in a supernatural power that they should not be so foolish since they are so educated, lol

 

[Titus]

It’s a false premise to assume that being more educated means more religious due to more educated scientists believing in God than not. I just provided a link to a meta analysis on 63 studies showing a flat out negative relationship between religiosity and intelligence. Forget scientists, forget general public.

I never made this claim, strawman

 

[Romanov2488]

Among believing educated scientists 20% are nothing in particular
Meaning these scientists who are believers do not hold to a particular religion.
That would include deists.


This is a futile attempt to change the subject, that more educated scientists believe in a supernatural being than other non-believing scientists.

The survey dis-proved your position, yet you wont admit it.
You should tell all these educated scientists that believe in a supernatural power that they should not be so foolish since they are so educated, lol

This is a futile attempt to deflect from the meta analysis that there is a negative relationship between intelligence and religiosity. No survey disproved any position either.

You won’t admit that religiosity is linked to lower education. You deflect and dodge about how it’s only a moot point that scientists don’t believe in God as much as the general public and how I’m merely just attempting to change the subject.

You cannot run from the meta analysis that religiosity has a negative relationship with intelligence. What’s your next excuse?

 

[Titus]

This is a futile attempt to deflect from the meta analysis that there is a negative relationship between intelligence and religiosity. No survey disproved any position either.

You won’t admit that religiosity is linked to lower education. You deflect and dodge about how it’s only a moot point that scientists don’t believe in God as much as the general public and how I’m merely just attempting to change the subject.

You cannot run from the meta analysis that religiosity has a negative relationship with intelligence. What’s your next excuse?

Still pretending that your whole premise is not false?
This is quite hilarious that scientists who are educated believe in a supernatural being more so than not.

And here you are arguing that education leads people away from belief in God.
Tell that to the science community that you put all your faith and trust in, lol.

You won’t admit that religiosity is linked to lower education.

Unlike you I'm transparently honest.
Yes, I will admit religious folks are less educated than americans who claim there is no evidence for God.
You never even asked me if I believed this!!!!
You instead made a strawman and claimed I did not believe this and would not admit what you claimed "I really believe " lol!

You're very desperate.
That is why you have made such a pitiful attempt to frame me as a liar who supposedly has to "hide the truth" in order to win an argument, lol!

The truth is colleges today have a religious fervor for indoctrinating folks into atheism
You cannot have amoral people who see right from wrong as only subjective if you cannot remove God from their conscience of moral culpability.

Not only do the college educated have less belief in God than the uneducated.
They(uneducated) also have much less indoctrination than the so called "educated"


This does not help your position like you think it does.
It is a fact that mankind naturally believes in God or gods.
History proves this to be true.

Therefore we use our own reasoning to determine that it is logical to believe in God.
It requires brainwashing(education/indoctrination) to be deceived into thinking God is a irrational belief.

You cannot run from the meta analysis that religiosity has a negative relationship with intelligence

Tell that to Dr. James Tour.
This meta analysis was probably conducted by skeptics.
These studies really amount to a hill of beans.

Tell me, since you are so much smarter more evolved than a Bible believing Christian like myself.

You can explain what makes more logical sense than God for the creation of the universe and life itself.
What makes more logical sense than the universe and life coming from a super powerful, super intelligent being?

Go ahead and give the more logical alternative theory?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I do not claim to be religious ?
But everyone is in fact, regardless of what they may claim of being, Atheist are religious ! and just because they claim not to be does not make it so.
Communism is the greatest religious following ? as all under the system have to be of the same faith or belief or you will be killed.

Their is no one who is not religious and no Tribe or Nation ever, was never not religious in fact. all through history every tribe or Nation was religious.

You will never find one person who is not religious in the history of the world ever.

Look at primitive peoples they all have so much dribble Taboo etc nonsense because they believe in gods ! this god that god ? and that's is what our new age society is becoming, backwards ! they idolise so much BS ! and now Taboo rubbish has come back into the trend that has been set by Satanist !
In the 60's to 80's most would laugh about anyone who claimed rubbish that was claimed to be Taboo ! What a retard was the response ! this moron swallows such nonsense ! Retard !

Now as for True Christianity the religious part is in the main about hopefully bring the people up to become born again ? Once one is truly born again, it is then that such a one is not religious anymore ? you do not need religion to cling on to anymore ? For one is in the Kingdom of God ! Saved ? so that one is not seeking Salvation ? but one is saved, from the deceptions and delusions of this world ? So that now One can see clearly such temptations because one has a handle on such ! but before as a religious you were a Slave to this world.
But once Saved one is free of the deceptions and delusions of this world, That Serpent that leads all astray.
Sure we can still step in droppings time to time but that's life.
Now Christ Jesus came so that we would have Life abundantly ? That is what he gave for us ? Not Carnal abundance like material nonsense ? but the Power not to be lead astray by carnal but to be lead by the Holy Spirit first and foremost in our lives.
Don't worry about slipping in the do dar but you can pick yourself up again directly or not fall in the first place because you watch your step and are ready for the moment to deal with the woops.

So it's not about being religious ? It's about being Saved ! Saved from this world that is dominated under Sin ! such are Savages ! they have not evolved but have devolved in fact ! and that's the problem, Why because they are cowards too weak mentally to stand up and able to deal with Sin in a mature way.

So you have some dill say you Sin ? Yes I do but I am not owned by Sin in fact ! I am mature enough to deal with such as I am not a slave to such temptations.
Look people cry over spilt milk, but just get over it and move on from a mistake better learned not to repeat hey, because that is what growing up is all about. We all make mistakes but that's a learning curve if one has a handle on such. for if you did not get a handle on it you are bound to repeat the same mistake.

Todays world is a mistake because they do not have a handle on it at all.

 

[The Learner]

from my experince many of the support staff for doctors believe in Jesus.

 

[Romanov2488]

Still pretending that your whole premise is not false?
This is quite hilarious that scientists who are educated believe in a supernatural being more so than not.

And here you are arguing that education leads people away from belief in God.
Tell that to the science community that you put all your faith and trust in, lol.


Unlike you I'm transparently honest.
Yes, I will admit religious folks are less educated than americans who claim there is no evidence for God.
You never even asked me if I believed this!!!!
You instead made a strawman and claimed I did not believe this and would not admit what you claimed "I really believe " lol!

You're very desperate.
That is why you have made such a pitiful attempt to frame me as a liar who supposedly has to "hide the truth" in order to win an argument, lol!

The truth is colleges today have a religious fervor for indoctrinating folks into atheism
You cannot have amoral people who see right from wrong as only subjective if you cannot remove God from their conscience of moral culpability.

Not only do the college educated have less belief in God than the uneducated.
They(uneducated) also have much less indoctrination than the so called "educated"


This does not help your position like you think it does.
It is a fact that mankind naturally believes in God or gods.
History proves this to be true.

Therefore we use our own reasoning to determine that it is logical to believe in God.
It requires brainwashing(education/indoctrination) to be deceived into thinking God is a irrational belief.


Tell that to Dr. James Tour.
This meta analysis was probably conducted by skeptics.
These studies really amount to a hill of beans.

Tell me, since you are so much smarter more evolved than a Bible believing Christian like myself.

You can explain what makes more logical sense than God for the creation of the universe and life itself.
What makes more logical sense than the universe and life coming from a super powerful, super intelligent being?

Go ahead and give the more logical alternative theory?

So many logical fallacies here. Education doesn’t directly lead people away from God, but instead fosters critical thinking so they can question things more. Now you’re back peddling that in fact, you do believe religious people are less educated. Ok.

You then mentioned that colleges have a fervor for indoctrinating students into atheism. What are you smoking? Atheism is NOT a belief system, unlike yours. Don’t say you’re one of those people who call atheism a religion, now.

Mankind naturally believing in God isn’t very accurate. It is more accurate to say that mankind has a propensity to be curious and search for meaning. Belief in God has its roots in the premodern era when people could hardly get a handle on making a fire. Bronze Age belief.

And what are you trying to say with regards to morality? Atheists can be moral without belief in God if you’re trying to say otherwise. Morality is not direct evidence of a God if that is what you’re trying to say.

Belief in a God is an irrational belief in and of itself, but one can be reasoned into such a belief due to their environment, not having access to other sources of information to counter their beliefs.

And what makes more sense than the universe coming to life from an all powerful being? Being agnostic, that’s what makes more sense. It’s much easier to tell yourself a comfort story than to admit you don’t know. Assuming the universe came from some all powerful being is just intellectual laziness. They call that the “God of the gaps”. Most theists will point to some crap in order to justify that the universe has a creator. That is called the teleological argument which rests safely in our ignorance of the universe. By having the humility admit you simply don’t know, you are leaving the door open for endless possibilities. By thinking that God is bowling whenever there’s a thunderstorm for example, all questioning ceases.

 

[Romanov2488]

from my experince many of the support staff for doctors believe in Jesus.

It’s a slippery slope with more educated people who believe in God because their belief in God could lead to the fallacy of appealing to authority. “They’re educated and believe in God, therefore God exists.” This isn’t necessarily the case.

 

[Titus]

So many logical fallacies here.

This shows this mans character, not good.

Now you’re back peddling that in fact, you do believe religious people are less educated. Ok.

No liar I'm not back peddling because I never made the claim reglious folks are more educated, you inserted that belief into my mouth.

You gave a strawman argument that I made this claim. Which again makes you dis-honest.

You then mentioned that colleges have a fervor for indoctrinating students into atheism. What are you smoking? Atheism is NOT a belief system

This is obviously irrational.
It requires belief to believe God does not exist, otherwise you came to this conclusion without reasoning why you dont believe in God.

If no belief "system " involved your skepticism in God then why do you believe what you believe?
Did it just "pop" into your head without reason?
Do you not know college professors teach their students why belief in God is not rational?
When someone teaches you his beliefs and why you should believe the same, that is a belief system.

Mankind naturally believing in God isn’t very accurate. It is more accurate to say that mankind has a propensity to be curious and search for meaning. Belief in God has its roots in the premodern era when people could hardly get a handle on making a fire. Bronze Age belief.

This is ignorance openly expressed.
What planet are you living on?
Have you never studied history?
Ever since recorded history mankind has believed in gods, God.

Still to this day the overwhelming majority of mankind believes in a super natural being.

EVEN the SCIENTISTS that you put all your faith in believe in a supernatural being more than scientists who don't.

A FACT YOU KEEP IGNORING!!!

A fact that proves your premise that more education = more critical thinking = no belief in God to be FALSE!

Overall the educated believe less in God than the uneducated but only because most people are gullible, and need to fit in with their society.
Today the society norm in the west is to deny God, people don't question what they have been taught in their universities. Only a minority of college educated question what they have been taught.

And what are you trying to say with regards to morality? Atheists can be moral without belief in God if you’re trying to say otherwise. Morality is not direct evidence of a God if that is what you’re trying to say.

Atheists can only pretend to have a moral code.
Without God morality is only a construct of each individuals imagination.
Thus no God, morality does not really exist. It can only be subject not objective.

Belief in a God is an irrational belief in and of itself, but one can be reasoned into such a belief due to their environment, not having access to other sources of information to counter their beliefs

You just called most of the scientists today as irrational people.
You are wrong, and this belief you have is from ignorance not education.

I'm waiting for you to give the most logical/rational reason for how the universe came into existence and life?
You just taught the theory that God being the creator of the universe is irrational.
Now give the rational alternative theory?
I'm waiting for your answer!!!

Being agnostic, that’s what makes more sense

Being agnostic makes more sense with regard to how the universe came into existence over the belief that God is the creator of the universe.

No, again you are making ignorant arguments.
Agnostic can include the possibility of God creating the universe!!!!
You already said that possibility is irrational!
You cannot take both sides, lol.
Either any possibility of God creating the universe is irrational as you have already claimed
Or it isn't irrational.

Since you claimed God creating the universe is irrational.
Based on your own reasoning, it is irrational to take the agnostic view of the possibility that God created the universe.

You are struggling with critical thinking Sir, lol

It’s much easier to tell yourself a comfort story than to admit you don’t know.

Completely backward thinking from you, lol!!!

The comfort story is no God no accountability to my life choices.

To believe that the God of the Bible created the universe and all living things is to believe in the God that is going to burn the wicked in hell for everlasting eternity.
NOTHING COMFORTING ABOUT THAT BELIEF!!!!

It is very comforting to think death holds no judgment for how I conducted myself in this life.
Just like rover dead all over. Hitler got off very easy!

Assuming the universe came from some all powerful being is just intellectual laziness. They call that the “God of the gaps”.

Regurgitated talking points atheists use all the time.
So, you can tell everyone how intellectually lazy Einstein was.
You can tell the majority of scientists today who believe in a supernatural being how intellectually lazy they are, lol.
You seem to want to live in your own created "reality". You keep ignoring that scientists believe in a God, gods more so than not!
You need to start living in the real world, not this make believe place you live in.

Most theists will point to some crap in order to justify that the universe has a creator. That is called the teleological argument which rests safely in our ignorance of the universe. By having the humility admit you simply don’t know, you are leaving the door open for endless possibilities.

I'm not claiming science proves God.
I'm asking you, a skeptic to give me the most logical theory for the existence of the universe and life itself.

You affirm that belief God did this is irrational.

So give me the rational theory?

Surely, you can give one possibility for the universe that is more logical than God?
I'm waiting?

 

[The Learner]

start at

• #273

 

[amadeus]

Are there any of the moderators?
I cannot create the first message.
Thank you.

@Angelina

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Wait! Logical fallacy is a 'belief'? Kinda like, "Well, I believe the watch factory blew up and, a miracle of miracles, the result was this beautiful Swiss timepiece"??? Kinda like the "big bang" theory, eh???

I believe I'll stay with The Master Designer... Wait, That's God??? poor, uneducated me

 

[The Learner]

ok

 

[Romanov2488]

This shows this mans character, not good.


No liar I'm not back peddling because I never made the claim reglious folks are more educated, you inserted that belief into my mouth.

You gave a strawman argument that I made this claim. Which again makes you dis-honest.


This is obviously irrational.
It requires belief to believe God does not exist, otherwise you came to this conclusion without reasoning why you dont believe in God.

If no belief "system " involved your skepticism in God then why do you believe what you believe?
Did it just "pop" into your head without reason?
Do you not know college professors teach their students why belief in God is not rational?
When someone teaches you his beliefs and why you should believe the same, that is a belief system.


This is ignorance openly expressed.
What planet are you living on?
Have you never studied history?
Ever since recorded history mankind has believed in gods, God.

Still to this day the overwhelming majority of mankind believes in a super natural being.

EVEN the SCIENTISTS that you put all your faith in believe in a supernatural being more than scientists who don't.

A FACT YOU KEEP IGNORING!!!

A fact that proves your premise that more education = more critical thinking = no belief in God to be FALSE!

Overall the educated believe less in God than the uneducated but only because most people are gullible, and need to fit in with their society.
Today the society norm in the west is to deny God, people don't question what they have been taught in their universities. Only a minority of college educated question what they have been taught.


Atheists can only pretend to have a moral code.
Without God morality is only a construct of each individuals imagination.
Thus no God, morality does not really exist. It can only be subject not objective.


You just called most of the scientists today as irrational people.
You are wrong, and this belief you have is from ignorance not education.

I'm waiting for you to give the most logical/rational reason for how the universe came into existence and life?
You just taught the theory that God being the creator of the universe is irrational.
Now give the rational alternative theory?
I'm waiting for your answer!!!


Being agnostic makes more sense with regard to how the universe came into existence over the belief that God is the creator of the universe.

No, again you are making ignorant arguments.
Agnostic can include the possibility of God creating the universe!!!!
You already said that possibility is irrational!
You cannot take both sides, lol.
Either any possibility of God creating the universe is irrational as you have already claimed
Or it isn't irrational.

Since you claimed God creating the universe is irrational.
Based on your own reasoning, it is irrational to take the agnostic view of the possibility that God created the universe.

You are struggling with critical thinking Sir, lol


Completely backward thinking from you, lol!!!

The comfort story is no God no accountability to my life choices.

To believe that the God of the Bible created the universe and all living things is to believe in the God that is going to burn the wicked in hell for everlasting eternity.
NOTHING COMFORTING ABOUT THAT BELIEF!!!!

It is very comforting to think death holds no judgment for how I conducted myself in this life.
Just like rover dead all over. Hitler got off very easy!


Regurgitated talking points atheists use all the time.
So, you can tell everyone how intellectually lazy Einstein was.
You can tell the majority of scientists today who believe in a supernatural being how intellectually lazy they are, lol.
You seem to want to live in your own created "reality". You keep ignoring that scientists believe in a God, gods more so than not!
You need to start living in the real world, not this make believe place you live in.


I'm not claiming science proves God.
I'm asking you, a skeptic to give me the most logical theory for the existence of the universe and life itself.

You affirm that belief God did this is irrational.

So give me the rational theory?

Surely, you can give one possibility for the universe that is more logical than God?
I'm waiting?

I can’t reason with someone who lacks critical thinking. You’re an extremely intellectually dishonest theists (as most are). I showed you data that scientists don’t believe in a god as much as the general population does and you tried moving the goal posts and relying on mental gymnastics to circumvent the data, in order to fit your own Bronze Age narrative.

And it is a comfort story because there’s supposed to be a heaven where Jesus holds your hand and you are saved. But you conveniently leave that out and project your intellectual dishonesty onto me.

You also are clueless when it comes to agnosticism which is really just embracing not knowing whether God exists or not. I don’t have a rational explanation (nor a fairytale such as yours) for how the universe came to be because I don’t know.

You keep on believing in your Santa Claus without evidence though.

Faith is belief without evidence. No way to get around that.

 

[Romanov2488]

Meta-analysis of 63 studies showing a negative relationship between intelligence and religion:

The relation between intelligence and religiosity: a meta-analysis and some proposed explanations - PubMed

A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[msugreen]

I don’t deny that there is a god. I can’t deny something that lacks evidence, does that make sense? It’s not that God doesn’t exist, it’s the evidence is lacking. I actually don’t believe anything can be proven so I have my gripes with science as well for that matter when people try to treat it like objective truth.

I don’t agree learning there is a God is instinctive, but that it’s instinctive to believe in one. Why is this? Many reasons. One of them is that man feels small.

You know what else is instinctive though? Smelling the bs from a mile away when you have all of these religions claiming exclusivity and that their God is the one true god. Why do people like Wrangler have to attach the adjective of “living” or “true” to God? If God is so real, his existence alone should speak for himself just like a tree’s existence or blade of grass speaks for itself.

It's essential to approach the topic with an open mind. In exploring these ideas, individuals may find valuable insights that challenge preconceptions. For those seeking diverse perspectives, top essay writing service reviews can be a valuable resource in navigating this intellectual journey.

Your point about the lack of evidence for the existence of God is a common stance taken by many agnostics or skeptics.