David Wilkerson's "The Vision"

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marks

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Modern day prophecy at the moment? There's not a ton of accurate prophecy going forth, so judging the scope of accurate prophecy would be a mistake when trying to answer it from what we see happening now. The primary value in it, in our time anyway, is in knowing what the Spirit is saying to the churches (i.e. through visions and dreams), though there are certainly a number of other uses when it is the true gift; exhortation and comfort, warnings, revelations, etc.
Hi Hidden In Him,

I think we agree on what prophecy today involves, though I think we're about opposite on the primary benefit, that's OK, that's just opinions. Mine is that the primary benefit from the prophet is to the person in front of them, but again, that's just me.

I find that within a smaller group of committed Christians there tends to be less of the false, or so it seems to me.

I also find that within the smaller group I have the opportunity to know people better. For instance, my friend with "Jesus Christ will return in 2021" lettered on his car, I happen to have known him for many years, and have watched his slide into mania as he's not just done that, but truly believes he's writing "new" Bible, the "truths that will carry the church into the Millennial Age!" That's how he describes it.

He goes out to meet people, and he gives a very refined and polished message, he's been doing it for years. All they see is the front view, here's a man who seems genuine, loving, concerned, preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, and giving prophecy. But they don't know him like I do.

Much love!
 

marks

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If you prophesied things that proved to be accurate. Substantive things, mind you. Not just vagaries like "marks will be blessed in 2020, and receive the double anointing." :rolleyes:

What if I did sometimes, and didn't other times?
 

Bobby Jo

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... anyone can string together a list of things according to what is already out there, ...

Who CARES what's out there? There are a thousand distractions from the things of GOD. Are you following the world, or GOD?!? And if GOD, then what do you see happening in the Prophetic Scriptures? Are you even reading and seeking understanding (active WORKS) or are you simply occupying a pew (dead FAITH)?


And THAT'S what I'M TALKING ABOUT! Whew,
Bobby Jo
 

Hidden In Him

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I think we agree on what prophecy today involves, though I think we're about opposite on the primary benefit, that's OK, that's just opinions. Mine is that the primary benefit from the prophet is to the person in front of them, but again, that's just me.

I find that within a smaller group of committed Christians there tends to be less of the false, or so it seems to me.

Among truly committed Christians, yes. But I think the ratios are about the same when it comes to people being in front of you. Those in the Charismatic Movement know all too well how much faking goes on in more superficial "Pentecostal" congregations; laymen "prophesying" over you up at the altar, who presume to have a gift. It might be more prevalent on Youtube, but that's just because it's where people can draw the most attention to themselves of all.
I also find that within the smaller group I have the opportunity to know people better. For instance, my friend with "Jesus Christ will return in 2021" lettered on his car, I happen to have known him for many years, and have watched his slide into mania as he's not just done that, but truly believes he's writing "new" Bible, the "truths that will carry the church into the Millennial Age!" That's how he describes it.

He goes out to meet people, and he gives a very refined and polished message, he's been doing it for years. All they see is the front view, here's a man who seems genuine, loving, concerned, preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, and giving prophecy. But they don't know him like I do.

Yes. This is agree with. It's easier to spot a fraud when you are around them in person a lot more. You can also pick up a spirit about them in the way they talk, their demeanor, the expressions they wear, etc.
 
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Hidden In Him

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What if I did sometimes, and didn't other times?

I'd withhold judgment here, myself. We tend to be quick to judge, and with prophecy I see a lot of skeptics make mistakes in what they assume was being said when it was actually something different. Also what we've discussed many times on this and the other threads: Often true prophecy is set a long ways off in the future, and when it doesn't come to pass in the immediate, some think it is therefore false.
 

marks

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I'd withhold judgment here, myself. We tend to be quick to judge, and with prophecy I see a lot of skeptics make mistakes in what they assume was being said when it was actually something different. Also what we've discussed many times on this and the other threads: Often true prophecy is set a long ways off in the future, and when it doesn't come to pass in the immediate, some think it is therefore false.
So then do you apply this same to DW and his vision? We don't know yet if this is true or not?
 

Hidden In Him

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So then do you apply this same to DW and his vision? We don't know yet if this is true or not?

Absolutely, though as I stated, nearly everything he says harmonizes with what other visions and dreams have said, and not just in some generalized way like the list you provided. While being in harmony with each other, each provides details that others do not, adding to the picture.

Reminds me. There's someone who did a video of his thoughts on this vision that would be worth watching.
 

Hidden In Him

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So then do you apply this same to DW and his vision? We don't know yet if this is true or not?

Ok, marks. Let me show you what I mean about receiving a witness that a vision or a dream is from the Lord, based upon the content and the source. I just discovered and watched this video a half hour ago, and the two dreams he tells about in it are from the Lord, and completely coincide with what Wilkerson says in the OP vision.


Most of the early and latter parts of the video are just him expounding on related matters associated with dream interpretation, but these two dreams he had in early 2018 are laid out from 3:39-10:18.

This is Rick Joyner, who has received numerous prophetic dreams - major published dreams and visions. He's older now and at the end of his ministry, but he's still receiving dreams from the Lord on occasion.

The interpretation of these two dreams is very simple, and he likely has long since received it, but I don't need to hear it to know. The two dreams go together, and their meaning is that the globalists (read George Soros, et al) are going to continue promoting Marxism in the West, and at some point begin putting weapons in the hands of the masses to use them to level large American and European cities through mob rule, as Wilkerson's vision describes and as I was telling you about in my short synopsis; cities with very high property value, that the globalists can then buy up at pennies on the dollar. They did this very same thing during WWII, when allied bombers were sent in to bomb the beJesus out of German cities at the end of the war that were not military threats in any way. They then came in, bought these city's land for almost nothing because they were now hollow bombed-out shells, and then rebuilt them from the ground up (or sold off the property when valuable again) at a tremendous profit.

So you see, the source of the dreams (a Sprit-filled believer walking close to the Spirit of God), combined with content that harmonizes hand in glove with all the other things the Spirit has been prophesying for decades now, makes this another example of a genuine set of prophetic dreams. Only put in the hands of a bad interpreter, they can be interpreted to be communicating all kinds of inaccurate mush, LoL. Just check the responses to this video on Youtube if you don't believe me. He encourages viewers to give their input, but also states in the video himself that good interpreters are very hard to come by these days. And that is the primary problem we are facing. It is made worse by a fairly large and vocal faction of the church that does not believe dreams and visions are still being given to the church by God.
 
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marks

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Absolutely, though as I stated, nearly everything he says harmonizes with what other visions and dreams have said, and not just in some generalized way like the list you provided. While being in harmony with each other, each provides details that others do not, adding to the picture.
OK. So I can share in the confidence, what prophecies are already fulfilled that would help us to authenticate the others?

Much love!
 

Hidden In Him

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OK. So I can share in the confidence, what prophecies are already fulfilled that would help us to authenticate the others?

Much love!

Trends. Most of what the visions describe are still in the trend stage, but trending in the exact direction prophesied.

Take for instance the video I posted in #268. The trend in the West has been very clearly towards socialism, and is now starting to blossom into sympathy for full-blown Marxism. Going back to the days of Rome when they implemented "bread and circus," governments have long known that the biggest factor that motivates populaces to overthrow their governments are food shortages. This is what Wilkerson's vision specifically states is going to take place eventually in the US. They will throw aside electronics (now considered far more valuable) to get to the food. Marxist philosophy encourages people to think that the masses should be entitled to "equality." They will have no qualms about simply taking what they feel should be theirs under a "fair" government.

I can understand your concern with wanting to "test" these prophecies by finding things in them that have already been fulfilled, but the problem you are running up against is that the Lord warns His people of significant events WAY in advance, so that they are well prepared decades ahead of time to face them. It was the same way in OT times. The Lord warned Israel 100 years in advance through the prophets that Babylonian captivity was now at the door step. Some listened, but many ignored those prophecies for 100 years, until they were fulfilled.
 
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marks

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I can understand your concern with wanting to "test" these prophecies by finding things in them that have already been fulfilled, but the problem you are running up against is that the Lord warns His people of significant events WAY in advance, so that they are well prepared decades ahead of time to face them. It was the same way in OT times. The Lord warned Israel 100 years in advance through the prophets that Babylonian captivity was now at the door step. Some listened, but many ignored those prophecies for 100 years, until they were fulfilled.
God gave the prophets prophecies that would be fulfilled to the hearers so they could know the parts that were not fulfilled until centuries later.

There is no end to the prophets and prophecies of trends and movements and all. Of coming collapse and persecution and cataclysm. So then there is a chorus of voices in unison announcing their prophecies, but we have nothing to actually tell us whether any of these have correctly prophesied?

It's not difficult to read the Bible, read the newspaper, and come up with some "trends" to prophesy. We can all know these things are coming.

But who will foretell what will happen now? Soon? That we can actually know they prophesy from God?

And it is not difficult to find any number of prophecies that were supposed to have happened, and didn't, and they had their followers too.

And it's nothing to gather in the prophecies of your particular movement or group, and 'prophesy' in the same way. It's what I referred to elsewhere as the Bandwagon Effect.

So yes, I ask, how can we know?

It sounds like either you just believe them, or you just don't.

Much love!
 

marks

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They didn't know all these things were coming in 1973.
You need to get ahold of the original book. I wish I hadn't gotten rid of mine, I'd send it to you.

This is a perfect example of how a prophecy was given, didn't come about, but then was adapted towards "a moving target".

And yes, there is a lot that can be gained from simply knowing Scritpure. And maybe he was given a real vision. How can we actually know?

It hasn't happened. It didn't happen. Everything is following along the path outlined in the end of the age prophecies in the Bible, and his vision gives his eschatology. Is it God's? If you learn the implications of his vision to Biblical prophecy and doctrine, how do you come up?

You've mentioned Rick Joyner . . . can you give examples of his prophecies being fulfilled?

Much love!
 

Hidden In Him

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You need to get ahold of the original book. I wish I hadn't gotten rid of mine, I'd send it to you.

This is a perfect example of how a prophecy was given, didn't come about, but then was adapted towards "a moving target".

All I can go on is what has been preserved for us to the present time. That sermon is a recording from 1973. Most of Joyner's visions were given to him in the 70s and 80s. Several other major visions were given during the mid 70s.

But you need to have ears to hear. If you refuse to believe in prophecies until they come to pass, your preoccupation is with their authenticity alone and not benefiting from the warnings they provide. That's not where you should be if you hope to be hearing what the Spirit is saying...

There's one vision that goes into how there will be many in the church who keep falling farther and farther behind where the Lord is directing because they never developed the ability to hear what the Spirit was saying to the churches. This would be the danger in not developing the ability to discern His voice now.

You of course would say that I could be hearing a false voice, so I suppose we will just have to wait and see who was right and who was wrong.
 

marks

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If you refuse to believe in prophecies until they come to pass, your preoccupation is with their authenticity alone and not benefiting from the warnings they provide.
Hi HIH,

Do you see how this puts the cart before the horse?

Not to mention . . . "refusal to believe"? Give me a reason to believe. You and I both know there are so many false prophecies and false prophets. Because they all say the same thing? All of Ahab's prophets said the same thing, a glorious future, because the Lord wanted to draw the king into the battle so he would die. Micaiah was the lone dissenting voice, but he was the true prophet, and not regarded by any of the others.

How can you benefit from a warning unless you first know the warning is valid?

Much love!
 

Hidden In Him

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How can you benefit from a warning unless you first know the warning is valid?

Yes, LoL. That was my point.
Not to mention . . . "refusal to believe"? Give me a reason to believe. You and I both know there are so many false prophecies and false prophets. Because they all say the same thing? All of Ahab's prophets said the same thing, a glorious future, because the Lord wanted to draw the king into the battle so he would die. Micaiah was the lone dissenting voice, but he was the true prophet, and not regarded by any of the others.

I only wish I were prophesying a glorious future, LoL. This argument assumes several things, two in particular:
1. that there will only be one prophet of God giving a dessenting opinion at any one time.
2. that true modern prophets are somehow in the majority

I don't subscribe to either.

But anyways, unless the Spirit leads, this thread may be playing itself out at this point. I think it may have served its purpose. But I'm sure we will pick the subject matter up again at some point in the future : )

Blessings bro! and thanks for the good discussion.
 

marks

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I only wish I were prophesying a glorious future, LoL. This argument assumes several things, two in particular:
1. that there will only be one prophet of God giving a dessenting opinion at any one time.
2. that true modern prophets are somehow in the majority

I only give this as example.

You had given as reason to accept these prophecies as true that they were in so much agreement. So were Ahab's prophets, but they weren't correct.

I simply submit that a because a group of people all prophesy the same thing, that's not evidence that they are true.

Much love!
 

Huperetes

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Hello All,
I am new here but not so new to the Lord and His gifts. I admired and respected DW. He was what I consider a real man of God. I have read the vision as well as later book,more in my time, called "set the trumpet to thy mouth" That book was scary and really got our whole church stirred up.We actually had a guy in the fellowship that looked just like the guy on the cover. The think is, I really struggle with vague and ambiguous prophecies. We have a tendency towards "apophenia" that encourages us to read whatever we want into a prophecy. As Mark said, many prophecies can be replicated by natural wisdom that understands social trends and their end results. I am also aware of Rick Joyner and some of his work. He wrote a book called the "Final Quest" that was full of some very questionable statements. One that comes to mind is where he was visited by the Apostle Paul who told him "you will pass me and the other apostles in knowledge" not word for word but that is the jist of it. Such a statement is to me. dangerous. It opens a door that should remain closed.
Don't get me wrong. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit. I am just looking for the real thing. Not the power of suggestion or a kundalini visitation. Just an authentic Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Apologies if this is a drive by shoot from the hip remark.
 
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