'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[charity]

... Jesus said in John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Jesus, in the Eternity of Himself made to be flesh, is talking to people who are completely mortal, knowing nothing other than, that death is death!
But then said: "whosoever liveth and believeth in me
shall never die".

Honestly, from our mortal perspective, there are only two ways to think on that.
In the moment of death, through faith in Jesus, we will either continue to live on into eternity with our flesh and blood body, or we will live on, leaving this body behind?

Hello @Earburner,

Thank you for replying, I see that you are responding to my second question (reply#611):- 'Regarding the gift of eternal life though: it is ours by promise (1 John 2:25, 1 John 5:11-12); it does not become ours, 'in fact,' until the resurrection, does it?'

* You refer to John 11:26:-

'Jesus saith unto her, "Thy brother shall rise again."
Martha saith unto Him, "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life:

he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.
Believest thou this?" ​

She saith unto Him, "Yea, Lord: I believe that Thou art the Christ, the Son of God,

which should come into the world." ​

(John 11:23-27)

* In these words of the Lord, He speaks of those who, 'though they are dead, saying 'yet shall he live', and that 'those who are alive and believeth in Him', 'shall never die'. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, we see that when Christ returns, He, Who is 'The Resurrection, and The Life', will raise those who 'sleep in Jesus' (the believing dead) first: and then those who 'are alive and remain' will be raised to meet those who have been raised to life, without themselves dying, ie., they 'shall never die'

* Martha knew about the resurrection which would take place at the last day: but this was something new; and must have sounded marvellous to her ears. The possibility of that occurring within Martha's lifetime was real: for that is what the believers to whom Paul wrote his early epistles to also looked for in anticipation. However it required the repentance of Israel for Christ to return (Acts 3:19-21) at that time: and so it awaits a yet future day for it's fulfilment.

* This is the resurrection I believe the Lord was referring to: which explains perfectly what He meant when speaking of those that are alive at His coming; when He said that they, 'shall never die'.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joseph77]

'Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,

"Death is swallowed up in victory - when" ALREADY TODAY ! HALLELUYAH ! for those transformed - born again, as just noted in another thread - in the twinkling of an eye ....

 

[charity]

"Death is swallowed up in victory - when" ALREADY TODAY ! HALLELUYAH ! for those transformed - born again, as just noted in another thread - in the twinkling of an eye ....

Hello @Josheph77,

Yes, for the believer death is indeed swallowed up in victory: but it is ours by promise now; and requires the resurrection for it's fulfilment. It is true that we are alive unto God now, spiritually, too: but only in resurrection will we have the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joseph77]

Instead of VICTORY, the false doctrine that has been around for centuries is that we will always sin, and we will always be a sinner. That is Defeatism and doesn't even remotely resemble, VICTORY.

I don't know what defeatism is - taking people's feet off ? No?
Where is victory ? Where is Truth found TODAY ? You believe you found it ?
"Instead of victory", the whole world is deceived. In chapter 18 I think, of the Apocalypse, it is written. Politicians, pastors, priests, teachers, scientists, bankers, corporations, etc etc etc all deceived according to Scripture (and as seen today, and throughout history).

 

[Joseph77]

Hello @Josheph77,

Yes, for the believer death is indeed swallowed up in victory: but it is ours by promise now; and requires the resurrection for it's fulfilment. It is true that we are alive unto God now, spiritually, too: but only in resurrection will we have the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Instead, I have had ever since I was saved, ever since I was born again, the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact. (as written, repeatedly, throughout the NT - and verified specifically: "we are sitting with (or in) Christ Jesus in the heavenlies" (already) )
As written, our joy (Ekklesia's Joy, for all who are born again), or rather the strength of our joy (daily, continually),
is our UNION WITH HIM (already today, as written) .

 

[charity]

Instead, I have had ever since I was saved, ever since I was born again, the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact. (as written, repeatedly, throughout the NT - and verified specifically: "we are sitting with (or in) Christ Jesus in the heavenlies" (already) )
As written, our joy (Ekklesia's Joy, for all who are born again), or rather the strength of our joy (daily, continually),
is our UNION WITH HIM (already today, as written) .

Hello @Joseph77,

I am glad that you have that wondrous hope. However it is still ours only spiritually now: it has yet to be fulfilled in actual fact; and that requires the resurrection.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joseph77]

Hello @Joseph77,

I am glad that you have that wondrous hope. However it is still ours only spiritually now, it has yet to be fulfilled in actual fact: and that requires the resurrection.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I'd rather go by what Scripture says concerning now, today, and continue in experiencing daily union , walking daily in union with Jesus and with the Father, while also sitting in heavenly places in Christ Jesus spiritually.
It is real and true and totally as Scripture says plainly concerning the Apostles and disciples in the first century and throughout the centuries. The peace and joy and righteousness , as written, is continuous, not being held back until some future day, in the assembly of the Ekklesia (born again ones set apart by God for God's Plan and Purpose Today).

We already experience, as the Apostles and disciples did, as written, RESURRECTION LIFE, as Jesus dwells in us, and we abide in Him, by HIS PLAN and PURPOSE. Thus not a religion at all - no. LIFE!!! PURE and HOLY LIFE ! Set apart in Jesus to God the Father today, as He Says Clearly throughout His Word, as we experience daily as His Word Says, in perfect harmony with all of His Word, and as quite contrary and different from religion of men.

 

[charity]

I'd rather go by what Scripture says concerning now, today, and continue in experiencing daily union , walking daily in union with Jesus and with the Father, while also sitting in heavenly places in Christ Jesus spiritually.
It is real and true and totally as Scripture says plainly concerning the Apostles and disciples in the first century and throughout the centuries. The peace and joy and righteousness , as written, is continuous, not being held back until some future day, in the assembly of the Ekklesia (born again ones set apart by God for God's Plan and Purpose Today).

We already experience, as the Apostles and disciples did, as written, RESURRECTION LIFE, as Jesus dwells in us, and we abide in Him, by HIS PLAN and PURPOSE. Thus not a religion at all - no. LIFE!!! PURE and HOLY LIFE ! Set apart in Jesus to God the Father today, as He Says Clearly throughout His Word, as we experience daily as His Word Says, in perfect harmony with all of His Word, and as quite contrary and different from religion of men.

Hello @Joseph77,

Yes, praise God! We can enjoy the joy of the presence of God now, on a daily basis, in union with The Father and the Son, by the Spirit: and yes, in God's eyes we have died with Christ, been buried, quickened and raised with Christ, and are seated in Him, at God's right hand. This is our portion in Christ Jeseus. Yet, it is still only experienced by us, spiritually, it is not in physical fact, as it will be in resurrection glory.

We have the experience now, spiritually, that resurrection life, as we walk before the Father in newness of life, I agree, but we still require the resurrection from the dead, to enjoy these joys in resurrection life.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

Hello @Josheph77,

Yes, for the believer death is indeed swallowed up in victory: but it is ours by promise now; and requires the resurrection for it's fulfilment. It is true that we are alive unto God now, spiritually, too: but only in resurrection will we have the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

still speaking in factoids huh charity?
ok

"as long as it is called tomorrow?"

 

[bbyrd009]

"Death is swallowed up in victory - when" ALREADY TODAY ! HALLELUYAH ! for those transformed - born again, as just noted in another thread - in the twinkling of an eye ....

bazinga
juat as lightning flashes from east to west, huh
Only Yah knows when though right

 

[charity]

still speaking in factoids huh charity? ok

Hi @bbyrd009,

You are so much cleverer than I, for I don't know what factoids are I'm afraid.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joseph77]

bazinga
juat as lightning flashes from east to west, huh
Only Yah knows when though right

?
Mixed metaphors?
/ two or more very different times in reality, in Scripture, in Life.....

 

[bbyrd009]

ah, so

Hi @bbyrd009,

You are so much cleverer than I, for I don't know what factoids are I'm afraid.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

he who says he knows, does not

 

[Joseph77]

ah, so

he who says he knows, does not

Jesus says in the Bible, whoever seeks the truth, and keeps seeking the truth (in reality of course - not man's truth, but God's Truth) , will find the truth, and the truth will set him free.

Also, Jesus knows. Who knows the mind of God? Only God, and those to whom God reveals it...... simple.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus says in the Bible, whoever seeks the truth, and keeps seeking the truth (in reality of course - not man's truth, but God's Truth) , will find the truth, and the truth will set him free.

Also, Jesus knows. Who knows the mind of God? Only God, and those to whom God reveals it...... simple.

ok

i guess even the Son doesnt know everything tho eh?
So iow the "Jesus = Yah" crowd have some uncomfy splaining to do maybe lol

 

[bbyrd009]

but only in resurrection will we have the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact.

factoid

 

[charity]

factoid

Hello @bbyrd009,

Are you saying that those words of mine comprise a factoid? Oh! Then perhaps you can explain it to me.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

i think maybe i see the problem now wadr. You have set yourself up as Yah apparently? Who gave you that duty? Yah appointed you to counter all hypocrisy?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes, for the believer death is indeed swallowed up in victory: but it is ours by promise now; and requires the resurrection for it's fulfilment. It is true that we are alive unto God now, spiritually, too: but only in resurrection will we have the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Amen Thank God

 

[bbyrd009]

Hello @bbyrd009,

Are you saying that those words of mine comprise a factoid? Oh! Then perhaps you can explain it to me.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

ha man i am not so great at that, but let me review and try maybe
but we're talking about your modus operendi here ok, i mean we are all trained to speak in the Hegelian dialectic here in the west, so its kind of a forest/trees deal ok, i know you are good-hearted

but only in resurrection will we have the joy of standing in His presence in actual fact.

ok so without arguing the merits of your pov here at all, notice the "only" part up there if you would. What if there is some other way that one might stand in Yah's Presence? Or what if even after one literally resurrected in the manner that you currently hold in your mind, they still were not "standing in His presence in actual fact?" Either way you are made into a liar, right?

In these words of the Lord, He speaks of those who, 'though they are dead, saying 'yet shall he live', and that 'those who are alive and believeth in Him', 'shall never die'. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, we see that when Christ returns, He, Who is 'The Resurrection, and The Life', will raise those who 'sleep in Jesus' (the believing dead) first: and then those who 'are alive and remain' will be raised to meet those who have been raised to life, without themselves dying, ie., they 'shall never die'

i suggest that idioms are being used to purposely install the possibility you hope for in tomorrow, with the expectation that you will then either disregard any other Scripture that might change your expectations, or go on to find and contemplate Them viz your current beliefs/understanding.
The kingdom does not come by observation, right, so right off how do you imagine your current belief up there coming true without violating that one?

but we still require the resurrection from the dead, to enjoy these joys in resurrection life.

beware the thief in the night

I came that you might have life, more abundantly