'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[Earburner]

.... to be clarified later , maybe,.... if God Permits...
I believe most doctrines (today, present, preached about, posted about) originate from demons or men, and are not of God nor from Scripture true and pure. Likewise they are associated with many other practices, dogmas, teachings, and false ideas.

However, if "doctrines of Christianity" is to refer to ONLY the true doctrines as God Originated, perfectly in total harmony with all Scripture,
GOOD,
although I'm not seeing that they "pivot" on (1) and (2) you listed.

Are yoy trying to split a hair with an axe?
Christianity is a huge umbrella. It covers every denomination that believes in Jesus as the only Savior.
Splitting hairs is not necessary.
So, lets not!

 

[Earburner]

.... to be clarified later , maybe,.... if God Permits...
I believe most doctrines (today, present, preached about, posted about) originate from demons or men, and are not of God nor from Scripture true and pure. Likewise they are associated with many other practices, dogmas, teachings, and false ideas.

However, if "doctrines of Christianity" is to refer to ONLY the true doctrines as God Originated, perfectly in total harmony with all Scripture,
GOOD,
although I'm not seeing that they "pivot" on (1) and (2) you listed.

When you understand how diametrically opposed items 1 and 2 are, you will then begin to see ALL the biblical topics they each effect.
Again, which line item of belief are you?
#1 or #2?

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[Earburner]

Apparently neither one, none of the above, not at all in the way(s) you are describing them/ your ideas.

Ok then! Its not necessary for you to participate in the discussion, unless you have another option that I may have over looked.

 

[Earburner]

God's Word is sharper than any two-edged sword, splitting even between bone and marrow, and exposing the deepest thoughts and motives of the heart ...
The umbrella you use or speak or or post about is not about true believers abiding in Jesus, as God's Word clearly separates.

All of what i presented, in my post is indeed connected to the title of this thread.
We have been discussing HOW death is swallowed up in victory, and when!
My two items 1&2 each dictate HOW one understands death.

You have lost the plot of what I am talking about. You refuse to discuss it, in hopes of starting a little side show for yourself.
I gave the challenge. So if you don't care for discussing it, then I am not obligated to answer side show questions.

 

[Joseph77]

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Verse 26. - The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. This rendering might imply that other enemies should still exist, though Death should be the last who would be destroyed. The original is more forcible, and implies, "Last of enemies doomed to annulment is Death;" or, as in Tyndale's version, "Lastly, Death the enemy shall be destroyed;"

 

[charity]

Hi Chris,
Yes, I agree, it is a difficult process to comprehend, mainly because our finite minds do not know what to expect in our literal death of the flesh of our bodies.
However, the Lord said this in John 11[26] And whosoever liveth AND believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So here again, as I had previously posted, is the age old dilemma of our thinking:
"All doctrines of Christianity pivot and divide on these two concepts:
1. Man was given an eternal soul.
2. Man became a living soul."

So, let me whet eveyone's interest with the following quote and references:
KJV- Gen. 7[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
See also Genesis 2:7 and Genesis 6:17.

So then, the challenge is:
Which school of thought are you?
Is it item #1 or item #2?

Lets discuss, and prove out that which is the only truth that can be known, and learn HOW it is that we "shall never die".

Hello @Earburner,

Thank you, but I have no problem with this subject, so would prefer not to engage in a discussion on it at present.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head

Chris

 

[brian100]

Charity wrote:

Therefore, my beloved brethren,
be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,
forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.'

That's why he gave is his Shroud of Turin.

 

[Earburner]

No one that I know of, who is a born again Christian, has a non-answer on this topic, unless of course they want to avoid it altogether.

But if you then choose to avoid it, by which of the two items, that I listed below, do you understand what death is, and for how long it shall exist?

"Death" must be vanquished, eliminated in both the saved and the unsaved.
In other words, if we who are saved, are going to be living IN the New heaven and New earth, death must be altogether, in all totality, eradicated, as in no more trace of it to be found anywhere, in the New heavens/earth, or anywhere else.
1. For those of you who believe that God gave man an eternal soul, how is death eliminated in the unsaved dead, if they don't believe in Jesus as their Savior?

2. For those of you who believe that man became a living soul, how is death eliminated in the unsaved dead, if they don't believe in Jesus as their Savior?

 

[Taken]

Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?
OP ^

When a corruptible body is sown in an incorruptible body.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[charity]

Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?
OP ^

When a corruptible body is sown in an incorruptible body.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hello @Taken,

Forgive me, but I don't understand what you mean. Surely the incorruptible replaces the corruptible, for this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, iow a certain phrasing is making a point there, while also allowing one to assume "put on"="become" should they so choose, just like at "absent from the body" and other Pauline writings are broadly, obviously misinterpreted, to their destruction

It now awaits a future day for it's fulfilment.

she said, with unwavering certainty yes charity it surely might await a future day, for you, but wadr dont be too shocked if someone gets it today imo k

 

[marks]

Hello @marks,

Forgive me, but what passage and why the appeal?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

1 Thessalonians 4 . . . then we that are alive and remain will be caught up in clouds to meet the Lord in the air . . .

The appeal to me is in the communion as we are the clouds . . . if that is what is being said here.

Much love!

 

[marks]

God gives His Word to all His children, and gives revelation and teaching THROUGH His Holy Spirit to us all FROM His Word.

Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
We must never separate the Spirit and the Word. The Spirit speaks to us through the Word; so we should always doubt and query any supposed revelation that is not entirely consistent with the Word of God. Indeed the essence of wisdom is to reject altogether the term “revelation” as far as we are concerned, and speak only of “illumination.” The revelation has been given once and for all, and what we need and what by the grace of God we can have, and do have, is illumination by the Spirit to understand the Word.

I think this is pretty good. I think the key is "consistent with the Word of God". I'm not sure the effective difference between revelation and illumination, when it comes to us, though I think the writer is attempting to preserve the meaning of "revelation" to apply to Scripture.

God illumines the Scriptures, for us, but He also reveals things to us I think. Not that these should be thought of as Scripture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

yes, we enjoy singing "when we all get to heaven," but few there are who find it right, and we even have the Exodus example if we wonder how few. See now we all watch for your response and go from there. But if the rabbis are any indications, there will be no Absolute conclusion, no matter long they debate i guess

I appreciate your response!

A few out of billions can still rise up in clouds I would think. It's just to say, I don't see a conflict.

Maybe that's a thing with me, in places where some see conflicts and contradictions, I see how they can both be true without conflict.

So, briefly, really only one possibility, at least three beliefs, what are we to do right.

For me the answer is to find the harmony within the Word between the passages, and this shows the meaning. For me, I've never found a seeming conflict that is not resolved this way.

So after like 45 years of that ive developed the theory that that is intentional, and meant to be a reading of the reader,

I see this in a way, that the Bible will show us about ourselves. Though I think it is primarily to reveal God to us.

well...i am at the point now where i would say that anyone who says they know is in error marks, so no, i guess. The opposite of that

What I don't understand is how this can be useful or meaningful at all . . . considering . . . it is a propositional statement, "if someone says they know, they don't". If there is not a limitation to this statement, then such a statement falls victim to it's own pronouncement.

It's like the person who says, there are no people.

8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

Is this talking about idols, and what you know about idols? Paul wrote that we know an idol is nothing, is he saying he's wrong to say we know? I find it difficult to see how this passage could be talking about all knowledge, when the writer speaks of his own knowledge. I think the context tells us what we need to know about how this is mean. JMO.

It just seems to me that the more years that go by, the more it all seems to fit together, to say a coherant and consistent thing, and seems to me more like a guidebook to God and eternal life with Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

yes, we enjoy singing "when we all get to heaven," but few there are who find it right, and we even have the Exodus example if we wonder how few. See now we all watch for your response and go from there. But if the rabbis are any indications, there will be no Absolute conclusion, no matter long they debate i guess

I appreciate your response!

A few out of billions can still rise up in clouds I would think. It's just to say, I don't see a conflict.

Maybe that's a thing with me, in places where some see conflicts and contradictions, I see how they can both be true without conflict.

Much love!

 

[charity]

1 Thessalonians 4 . . . then we that are alive and remain will be caught up in clouds to meet the Lord in the air . . .

The appeal to me is in the communion as we are the clouds . . . if that is what is being said here.

Much love!

Hello @marks,

Thank you. Yes what a wonderful experience that will be. Being accepted in the Beloved, and knowing it now is wonderful, but being in His presence along with all who share that glorious privilege, without the bodies of humiliation we have had to endure, but clothed in a resurrection body which is like His glorious body, how wonderful that will be. Love, pure love magnified by each grateful member of the Body joined together by His Sonship spirit. There with Him for time without end. - speechless!!

Praise God!

 

[Earburner]

Since no one here understands their own doctrinal stance, of WHY/HOW they believe in hell, in the way that they do, I have laid it out before you.
I repeat:
If we who are saved, are going to be living IN the New heaven and New earth, death must be altogether, in all totality, eradicated.
One can and should be confident that death truly shall be no more, and no trace of it to be found anywhere, in the New heavens/earth, or anywhere else.

1. For those who believe that God gave man an eternal soul, do you also believe that upon the return of Christ, the unsaved, both dead and alive, shall be cast into hell, being punished upon Christ's return, by His Eternal flaming fire, to forever suffer the punishing of eternal torment, IN DEATH?

2. For those who believe that man became a living soul, do you also believe that upon the return of Christ, the unsaved, both dead and alive, shall be cast into hell, being destroyed immediately, by His Eternal flaming fire, and shall be forever dead, by the punishment of ETERNAL DEATH and DESTRUCTION, never to live again?

Q. If a forever burning Hell is a place of eternal burning of eternal souls, where is death for them? Shall we say that God did not eliminate death for them also?
If so, then in scenario #1, death still exists.

Q. If we who are saved, are living forever in the New heavens/earth, with His new life, and death was eliminated for us, does death still exist for the eternal unsaved souls in some place else, called hell?

Q. If the unsaved, eternal souls were never given the Gift Eternal Life, is the Spirit of God in hell also, keeping them alive?

Q. In which scenario of 1&2 is
1 Corinthians 15:26 fulfilled, whereby death is totally eradicated and eliminated/destroyed?

Now, here is the question that DIVIDES the church:
Will the unsaved dead be given a second chance, AFTER Christ returns for His church, and are resurrected/raptured?
Your answer is:
1. YES
2. NO
How you answered, will tell you whether your overall doctrinal stand is in truth, or it is in error.

 

[Earburner]

Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?
OP ^

When a corruptible body is sown in an incorruptible body.

Glory to God,
Taken

That is OK and most glorious for the saved, both alive and dead, but what about the unsaved, both alive and dead?
Will they get a second chance, AFTER Christ resurrects/raptures His church?
Why or why not?