'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

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Earburner

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If you think that flesh body is the 'real' you, then when it dies, 'you' would be dying with it. God's Word does NOT teach any such idea as that. The false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" are who that teach that LIE. So you can listen to them and perish if that's what you want. But Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 and elsewhere that the 'soul' continues after flesh death. And Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 also showed this indirectly, for our soul is connected to that spirit that goes back to God at flesh death. In other words, the SOUL is NOT a part of the flesh!
"If you think that flesh body is the 'real' you, then when it dies, 'you' would be dying with it"
Lol! You just don't know how of what you said is the absolute truth!
Anyone who does NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit of God now, cannot live after or beyond the grave, in any kind of existence of any kind!
 

Earburner

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FALSE!

<<by administering "the breath of life" into his nostrils/airways and lungs>> God created Adam a SINLESS, PERFECT FIRST HUMAN "THAT VERY BONE DAY SAME DAY" the Sixth Day of God's SINGLE creation act "IN THE BEGINNING, GOD....".

There is no sense and no good at all in discussing anything of God with you. You're a scoundrel.
You forgot the most important ingredient of Adam's life!
In the following, can you explain what it was that he was unable/not allowed to partake of, and therefore never received?
Gen. 3[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
 

Earburner

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^Furthermore, prior to Adam eating from the forbidden tree, he had NO knowledge of evil OR GOOD!
He was INNOCENT in his MORTALITY.
 

Earburner

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^ In essence, Adam was like a dumb animal in that regard of his being, having no knowldge of good or evil.
A living soul, breathing the breath of life, as every one of the animals, which did also breathe the breath of life.
 

Earburner

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Well, there still is the resurrection to judgment.
Yes! Its plain enough, and in everyone's face, except for the "religiosity" of the "religious impaired".

John 3:18
1. The judgment of DEATH through Adam, and all who DO NOTconvert through Christ.
2. The judgment of LIFE through Christ, and all who DO convert through Christ.
 

Earburner

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First and foremost, all should deeply consider that ONLY God the Father is good, and this:
John 5[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.

John 3:18 defines:
1. The judgment of DEATH through Adam, and all those who DO NOT convert through Christ.
2. The judgment of LIFE through Christ, and all those who DO convert through Christ.

As revealed in symbolic form in the KJV:
1. The GW-Throne-J:

The conclusion of Revelation 20:11-15 is **None of them were found written in the book of Life, who is Christ.
2. The J-Seat-OC:
2 Cor. 5[10] For *we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Q. (Only God is "good" ) What of God, *did you allow to be done in your body, that was "good", that you chose to do?
A. John 3:3-8,18 John 6:29 Luke 11:13 Romans 8:8-9.

Q. (Only God is good). What of God, **did you NOT allow to be done in your body, that was the "bad", in that you neglected to do?
A. John 3:18 Luke 11:13 Romans 8:8-9.

Notes:
* many are called, but few chosen.

Mat. 22:14.
** workers of iniquity.
Luke 13:27

Q. Now, considering all that I have said, Who is it, that is seated on "a great white throne"?
A. Christ

Is the WTJ separate from the JSoC, or are they one in the same thing, just being spoken of differently, through the different people of Paul and John?
Before you answer, please notice where the unsaved dead are located when they are destroyed:
Mat. 10
 

Earburner

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^Mat. 10[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hell is the grave.
 

Earburner

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bla bla bla
Only God is GOOD!

Rom. 7[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
2 Cor. 5[10] For *we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; (John 3:18)
that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(Things done by God) or (things done by self).
What have you allowed or neglected,
to BE DONE in your body, concerning God's Gift of His Holy Spirit?

Romans 8[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. > (He who is Good!)
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Luke 13[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
 

Earburner

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News for Earbluster, <Hell is the grave> from which into which again, the wicked shall be raised; now they're dead in it; then they'll live in it.
You are not hearing the Lord's words!
Mat. 10:28....fear him which is able to *destroy BOTH soul and body
in hell, > aka the grave(s).

*Strongs- 623- ἀπόλλυμι -
to destroy fully; perish [in the grave].
 

Earburner

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Jesus said this about one of the MANY of the son(s) of perdtion, Judas Iscarriot:
John 17[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Mark 14[21] The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
> What is a "son of perdition" ?
Everyone who shall be destroyed in the grave (hell).
 

Earburner

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Exactly on condition the destroyed and perished lived in the grave.
Exactly on condition the destroyed and perished lived in the grave.
People who do not have the Holy Spirit, CANNOT live on after their fleshly life, in any kind consciousness or unconsciousness, whatsoever!
For anyone to believe it to be otherwise, they have signed up to the devils lie, that men are given an eternal soul.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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People who do not have the Holy Spirit, CANNOT live on after their fleshly life, in any kind consciousness or unconsciousness, whatsoever!
Why is this your comment on my post? Can't you read, have I said anything about <the Holy Spirit>? Is the Holy Spirit a.t.y., <<any kind of consciousness or unconsciousness, whatsoever!>>? Crazy!
 

Enoch111

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^Mat. 10[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Hell is the grave.
That is incorrect. The Greek word in Matthew 10:28 is Gehenna which is eternal Hell -- the Lake of Fire. It is DEFINITELY NOT the grave.

It is very unfortunate that the KJV translators used the same word "hell for (1) Sheol, (2) Hades, (2) Gehenna, and (4) Tartarus. Then they also turned around and called "Sheol" the grave, when it is the region of departed souls and spirits in "the heart of the hearth" or "the lower parts of the earth" or near the core of the earth.

The only thing found in graves is dust. But souls and spirits either go to Hades (or Sheol/Hades) or to Heaven. Those who go to Sheol/Hades will eventually go to Gehenna -- the Lake of Fire. And *destruction* (apollumi) does not mean annihilation, but total ruination -- eternal anguish and torment.
 

CadyandZoe

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No! When Apostle Paul speaks of the subject of a "spiritual body" in 1 Corinthians 15:44, here is the Greek for it...

NT:4152
pneumatikos
(pnyoo-mat-ik-os'); from NT:4151; non-carnal, i.e. (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious:

KJV - spiritual. Compare NT:5591.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Even the NT:4151 word it is derived from points to the idea of 'spirit'. So YOU... need to heed exactly what the KJV says, because Paul included more info to make SURE what he taught there would be understood. That other info are the 1 Corinthians 15:48-50 verses which clearly explain he was talking literally about a spirit body, and body of the heavenly.



If you think that flesh body is the 'real' you, then when it dies, 'you' would be dying with it. God's Word does NOT teach any such idea as that. The false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" are who that teach that LIE. So you can listen to them and perish if that's what you want. But Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 and elsewhere that the 'soul' continues after flesh death. And Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 also showed this indirectly, for our soul is connected to that spirit that goes back to God at flesh death. In other words, the SOUL is NOT a part of the flesh!
In my studies, I have found that the correct meaning of the word is the meaning that the author intended. In this case, Paul the Apostle is defending his gospel, which includes the doctrine of Resurrection. In this context he is answering two questions, "how are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" The second question seeks information concerning the kind of body given to the resurrected; the first question is concerned with the means by which the body comes into existence.

At this point in the argument, Paul will attempt to bracket the concept by pairing up contrasting qualities of the resurrected body or at other times pairing up contrasting agencies of production. It's important to bear in mind that each pair answer to the same question.

42 It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
The contrasted pair above is perishable :: imperishable, which answers to the question "what kind?"

43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory;
The contrasted pair above is dishonor :: glory. I believe this answers to the question, "what kind",which suggests our sinful nature. All sinners die in dishonor, because death itself condemns us as a sinner. Glorification, then, is the transformation of the sinner into a glorious, righteous, good, person with moral courage. And the agency of this transformation is God himself

it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
The contrasted pair above is weakness :: power. This contrast is reminiscent of Romans 8:1-4, which answers to the question of means. What the law could not do because of the weakness of our flesh, God did by sending his own son, and etc. Again this is a contrast of agency: what we can not do for ourselves; God has done for us.

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
Here is our verse, the one in question.
The contrasted pair above is natural :: spiritual. While the term "spiritual" can answer to the question of kind, natural answers to the question of means. Te term "spiritual" stands in contrast to "natural", not "physical". Therefore, the definition of "spiritual" is the opposite of "natural."

Paul often uses the word "natural" to indicate the way things exist and function in nature. So for instance, in Romans 1:26 he says, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, " indicating a contrast between what nature normally expects, i.e. a woman sleeps with a man, as compared to that which is unnatural, i.e a woman sleeps with another woman.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
The contrasted pair above is natural :: spiritual. This pair contrasts the body which nature provides and the body which God will provide. Animals are born into this world, with a mother and father that nature provides. The body of this animal is its natural body. This answers to the question, "from where did this body come"? The natural body comes naturally from a mother and father.

A "spiritual body" by contrast, is a miracle body that God provides apart from the natural processes of physics and chemistry and biology. "Spiritual" in this context means "supernatural", i.e. brought into existence by God outside of the normal processes.
 
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Davy

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In my studies, I have found that the correct meaning of the word is the meaning that the author intended. In this case, Paul the Apostle is defending his gospel, which includes the doctrine of Resurrection. In this context he is answering two questions, "how are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" The second question seeks information concerning the kind of body given to the resurrected; the first question is concerned with the means by which the body comes into existence.

At this point in the argument, Paul will attempt to bracket the concept by pairing up contrasting qualities of the resurrected body or at other times pairing up contrasting agencies of production. It's important to bear in mind that each pair answer to the same question.

42 It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
The contrasted pair above is perishable :: imperishable, which answers to the question "what kind?"

43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory;
The contrasted pair above is dishonor :: glory. I believe this answers to the question, "what kind",which suggests our sinful nature. All sinners die in dishonor, because death itself condemns us as a sinner. Glorification, then, is the transformation of the sinner into a glorious, righteous, good, person with moral courage. And the agency of this transformation is God himself

it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
The contrasted pair above is weakness :: power. This contrast is reminiscent of Romans 8:1-4, which answers to the question of means. What the law could not do because of the weakness of our flesh, God did by sending his own son, and etc. Again this is a contrast of agency: what we can not do for ourselves; God has done for us.

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
Here is our verse, the one in question.
The contrasted pair above is natural :: spiritual. While the term "spiritual" can answer to the question of kind, natural answers to the question of means. Te term "spiritual" stands in contrast to "natural", not "physical". Therefore, the definition of "spiritual" is the opposite of "natural."

Paul often uses the word "natural" to indicate the way things exist and function in nature. So for instance, in Romans 1:26 he says, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, " indicating a contrast between what nature normally expects, i.e. a woman sleeps with a man, as compared to that which is unnatural, i.e a woman sleeps with another woman.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
The contrasted pair above is natural :: spiritual. This pair contrasts the body which nature provides and the body which God will provide. Animals are born into this world, with a mother and father that nature provides. The body of this animal is its natural body. This answers to the question, "from where did this body come"? The natural body comes naturally from a mother and father.

A "spiritual body" by contrast, is a miracle body that God provides apart from the natural processes of physics and chemistry and biology. "Spiritual" in this context means "supernatural", i.e. brought into existence by God outside of the normal processes.

Well, you're getting closer to what Paul said, but you failed to include these verses where Apostle Paul nailed what the "spiritual body" is...

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The "first man Adam" is literally about the first flesh man Adam which God formed in His Garden per Genesis 2. But the "last Adam" represents Christ and the resurrection. Notice that state of the last Adam Paul there says, "was made a quickening spirit". That is about our Lord Jesus' resurrected body. It is a spiritual type body, even though His spiritual body retained the marks of His crucifixion, and His flesh body was transfigured to the spiritual body type. That's what that body is, a 'spiritual body'.


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul doesn't leave us hanging as to how... he meant those ideas of natural vs. spiritual. The flesh body (natural) is first, and then the spiritual body afterward (meaning after we die, or are changed on the "last trump" he covers later).


47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Paul then links this latter spiritual body state with our Lord Jesus' resurrection to a quickening spirit state in the Heavenly. And just to make sure we understand he is speaking of another dimension type body and not flesh, he continues to contrast the two...


48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Those in the flesh are earthy, those like the angels are heavenly. Paul is contrasting two different dimensions of existence, just as our Lord Jesus did also in John 3 and Matthew 10:28.


49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Just as we have borne the "image of the earthy" (flesh body), so also we shall bear the "image of the heavenly".


What is that "image of the heavenly"? It is the image body the angels have in the heavenly dimension; our Lord Jesus told us about that future state as the resurrection, so Paul is only agreeing with our Lord Jesus here in 1 Cor.15 (Matthew 22:30).

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


Then Paul is adamant that the resurrection body is NOT one of flesh and blood.