Death penalty.

[Ferris Bueller]

I agree their should be accountability but surely this is not the same as a criminal act ( my ex committed adultery for 16years of a 27year old marriage ) I do happen to know that both of us were at fault within our marriage and that was something I had to come to terms with, it doesn’t excuse the adultery, but he wasn’t a criminal in my eyes. He faced the consequences of his decisions, as we all do when we choose to do things wrong. He never really sort my forgiveness , he died two years ago. However I was able to forgive him long before that and we remained friends. Rita

It sounds like it ended the marriage, and if it did, I'm of the opinion that is usually a punishment in and of itself. Besides the fact that the adulterer will always be known as an adulterer to those who know about it.

But a man who commits adultery has no sense; whoever does so destroys himself.
Blows and disgrace are his lot, and his shame will never be wiped away.
Proverbs 6:32-33
​

But above all, thank God for his forgiveness. For even the most hurtful of adulterers is not beyond the comfort of God's forgiveness. And what joy it must bring to the person who is the conduit of that forgiveness.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He really always seemed to be such a nice guy when he lived with us...

You know what I've learned? Don't trust someone who is too likable. You're being manipulated.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I remember receiving some kind of notice about his agreement to pay back my $40.00.

Just for the sake of interesting discussion...under the law he would be required to pay you $40.00 + 1/5. And there would be no prison sentence.

If I'm not mistaken, historically, prison sentences were to hold prisoners until they could be put to death, not to punish them. Feel free to fact check all of that. I'm no expert in the law....or history for that matter, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Back again then to the question of how many times should we forgive someone who have offended us.

I know you know the answer to that. 7 x 70 times.

“Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?”22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!" Matthew 18:21-22
​

I have not always allowed them to "enter my home" again but...

I think that's entirely up to your discretion. IMO, that has nothing to do with whether or not you have forgiven them. It's just a matter of your own safety and well-being.

"23And when He was in Jerusalem in the Passover, in the Feast, many believed in His name, beholding His signs that He was doing. 24But Jesus on His part did not did entrust Himself to them, because of His knowing all men, 25and because He had no need that anyone should testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man." John 2:23-25​

 

[JohnPaul]

I agree their should be accountability but surely this is not the same as a criminal act ( my ex committed adultery for 16years of a 27year old marriage ) I do happen to know that both of us were at fault within our marriage and that was something I had to come to terms with, it doesn’t excuse the adultery, but he wasn’t a criminal in my eyes. He faced the consequences of his decisions, as we all do when we choose to do things wrong. He never really sort my forgiveness , he died two years ago. However I was able to forgive him long before that and we remained friends. Rita

I think it is a criminal act, you’re breaking your vows you’ve taken before God, through thick and thin and sicker and for poorer and through sickness,till death do us part.

 

[Rita]

I think it is a criminal act, you’re breaking your vows you’ve taken before God, through thick and thin and sicker and for poorer and through sickness,till death do us part.

There is no law in the western world that puts anyone in prison or eligible for arrest for committing adultery……….that is what would make it a criminal offence. I agree that is it breaking a commandment, but as Jesus said ‘ cast the first stone if you are without sin ‘ ….
So what punishment would you expect to have for the things you do wrong !? Rita

 

[JohnPaul]

There is no law in the western world that puts anyone in prison or eligible for arrest for committing adultery……….that is what would make it a criminal offence. I agree that is it breaking a commandment, but as Jesus said ‘ cast the first stone if you are without sin ‘ ….
So what punishment would you expect to have for the things you do wrong !? Rita

Loss of all inheritance and banished by divorce with no alimony or child support.

 

[Rita]

Loss of all inheritance and banished by divorce with no alimony or child support.

No I meant for the things that you do wrong in your life that are not unlawful within our cultures …if breaking Gods law is a criminal offence in your eyes then so must the breaking of all the laws, given the fact that none of us are capable of keeping all the laws, then you must have committed a criminal offence against God, so what should your punishment be ?

I am just curious x
Rita

 

[amadeus]

You know what I've learned? Don't trust someone who is too likable. You're being manipulated.

Oh but some likeable people can be trusted. How does one separate the tares from the wheat? Are we to wait until the harvest? What do you think? Perhaps it is a wrong application of the parable?

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30

 

[amadeus]

Just for the sake of interesting discussion...under the law he would be required to pay you $40.00 + 1/5. And there would be no prison sentence.

If I'm not mistaken, historically, prison sentences were to hold prisoners until they could be put to death, not to punish them. Feel free to fact check all of that. I'm no expert in the law....or history for that matter, lol.

Hmmm? I wonder if we may presume that this guy delivered to the tormentors had unstated sources of income that the work of the tormentors would convince to turn over...?

"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him." Matt 18:34

But that is likely not the message Jesus was giving us with that parable.

More on point perhaps was the way our government repaid the loss of income to American citizens of Japanese descent who were incarcerated without due process of law during WWII. I handled many of their claims for Social Security benefits.

We had a chart whereby we would credit the person with a monthly income for each month of incarceration based on his own average income for the period immediately prior to incarceration. If there was no evidence for that prior period, we had a chart which assigned him a minimum monthly pay. We requested proof of the time the person was incarcerated from another government agency that had records of the incarceration times for each person in the camps. Cost of Living [COL] increases were applied to those minimal amounts based on national average COL changes for each year involved.

Those people actually earned nothing while incarcerated but we calculated a monthly Social Security check for them which included the amount of credit from their Internment periods we were able to add to their actual earning records. It added permanent amount to their Social Security checks. Not much repayment for illegal incarceration, was it?

Similar credits were calculated for military service men who served before they had FICA withheld from their pay. That got complicated as the laws to calculate the amounts changed over the years.

 

[amadeus]

I know you know the answer to that. 7 x 70 times.

“Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?”22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!" Matthew 18:21-22
​

I think that's entirely up to your discretion. IMO, that has nothing to do with whether or not you have forgiven them. It's just a matter of your own safety and well-being.

"23And when He was in Jerusalem in the Passover, in the Feast, many believed in His name, beholding His signs that He was doing. 24But Jesus on His part did not did entrust Himself to them, because of His knowing all men, 25and because He had no need that anyone should testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man." John 2:23-25​

The one time my wife and I actually took in a young homeless couple for a night and gave them money taught us a hard lesson about that. We have never done anything like that again. God helped us that time...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think it is a criminal act

It was when I was in the military. I don't know if it still is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The one time my wife and I actually took in a young homeless couple for a night and gave them money taught us a hard lesson about that. We have never done anything like that again. God helped us that time...

Were they drug and/or alcohol addicts?

 

[amadeus]

Were they drug and/or alcohol addicts?

No! This happened about 35 years ago. We fed them a good meal and gave them a place to sleep for one night. They said they were broke and needed to get to Tulsa Ok in order to supposedly catch a bus to someplace down south...where they would get the money from her sister to repay us for the bus ticket. We bought their bus ticket at about $90.00 and I drove them the 60 some miles in my car to Tulsa and dropped them off at the bus station.

Later by different means we talked with her sister on the phone, who confirmed that they were scam artists and that we would never see any money from them. She said they had done similar things several times before always targeting "good Christian people". She apologized profusely for her sister but told us she could not afford to repay us either.

They had cashed in the bus ticket in Tulsa and disappeared. It put a real financial bind on us... but God provided and we moved on...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Oh but some likeable people can be trusted. How does one separate the tares from the wheat? Are we to wait until the harvest? What do you think? Perhaps it is a wrong application of the parable?

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30

It's a matter of discernment. I think it's learned through the help of the Spirit and experience. I know who to be careful of more than ever now because of personal experience and training by the Holy Spirit. As my character grows, so does my discernment of character.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No! This happened about 35 years ago. We fed them a good meal and gave them a place to sleep for one night. They said they were broke and needed to get to Tulsa Ok in order to supposedly catch a bus to someplace down south...where they would get the money from her sister to repay us for the bus ticket. We bought their bus ticket at about $90.00 and I drove them the 60 some miles in my car to Tulsa and dropped them off at the bus station.

Later by different means we talked with her sister on the phone, who confirmed that they were scam artists and that we would never see any money from them. She said they had done similar things several times before always targeting "good Christian people". She apologized profusely for her sister but told us she could not afford to repay us either.

They had cashed in the bus ticket in Tulsa and disappeared. It put a real financial bind on us... but God provided and we moved on...

Your reward is waiting on the other side 'thou good and faithful servant'.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Should there be a death penalty Yes or No?

As a son of a someone who used to work as a prison chaplain, I don't agree with the death penalty. I believe they too are human beings, they too can be saved, some are genuinely repentant in countries that still have the death penalty, and they are still put to death, the Bali 9 in Indonesia was a good example, Andrew Chan was a genuinely changed man, repentant, he turned to Jesus and deserved a second chance. But even though he significantly changed and was helping other prisoners, he still got put to death.

Found this arcticle.

Death penalty undermines Jesus' redemptive work on the cross - Shane Claiborne

God commanded one! Gen. 9:6 Man is to kill man if they commit murder!

Paul never condemned Rome for the death penalty for treason either. He said if ha done something worthy of death he was prepared to die, butif not no one could punish him.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Matthew 5:7
7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.

Your two posts are personal commands, not doctrine for governing people. There is a difference.

 

[dev553344]

It's my belief that the criminal laws are designed to stop crimes against citizens in general. They are to stop crimes and prevent further crimes that criminals might perpetrate. The death penalty should only be used if the criminal will kill again or kills while in prison. Again the imprisonment and death penalty are to prevent further crimes from that individual.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It's my belief that the criminal laws are designed to stop crimes against citizens in general. They are to stop crimes and prevent further crimes that criminals might perpetrate. The death penalty should only be used if the criminal will kill again or kills while in prison. Again the imprisonment and death penalty are to prevent further crimes from that individual.

The death penalty established by God is simple, if a p-erson takes another persons life- they forfeit theirs because man was made in the image of God! Period! No long drawn out philosophy or list of reason how it benefits- kill someone you forfeit your life as well.