Death penalty.

[Ferris Bueller]

While I understand your point in and for our society but... how far gone is a person?

Consider the man with a legion within... but Jesus sent them into the swine herd.

I don't know.
But I think it starts with detecting what capacity for empathy the offender displays and if they care about the harm they have done, and how willingly they take responsibility for what they've done without blaming others and making excuses. Some people can care about being in bondage to bad behavior. There's hope for them. Others don't, and can't. All factors that I think a judge should take into consideration when deciding if a person is going to be trusted to be among the living anymore or not.

 

[Truth7t7]

Should there be a death penalty Yes or No?

As a son of a someone who used to work as a prison chaplain, I don't agree with the death penalty. I believe they too are human beings, they too can be saved, some are genuinely repentant in countries that still have the death penalty, and they are still put to death, the Bali 9 in Indonesia was a good example, Andrew Chan was a genuinely changed man, repentant, he turned to Jesus and deserved a second chance. But even though he significantly changed and was helping other prisoners, he still got put to death.

Found this arcticle.

Death penalty undermines Jesus' redemptive work on the cross - Shane Claiborne

Jesus Christ opposed the death penalty as seen below, the woman was guilty of death by stoning (Adultery)

Example: How many jurors in court rooms have committed 1st degree murder through their acts in killing the unborn (Abortion), and have passed sentence on others, this being comparable to the Pharisees below?

John 8:1-11KJV
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

[LouisWilliams]

The problem is that Democrats could use this kind of argument against Republicans --

How can you be "pro-life", for example, if you are literally at the same time for the "death" penalty of already born and breathing human beings?

(Although I think, for a Western country, there are actually lots of left-wing Americans who also support the death penalty, according to the polls, I think it's just something cultural with America, our society very strongly emphasizes harsh punishment and shaming of criminals, rather than healing and rehabilitation, like the Scandinavian nations or some EU countries.)

I do not say I necessarily agree with this or that (again, I did not vote, because I do feel conflicted, we do NOT live in a perfect world), but it is interesting to ponder, at least.

 

[Taken]

Pro-death penalty? Yes in agreement.
I would say, God already decided and appointed a Death penalty to every human.

Scripturally, men DID carry out Death penalies "according to Gods Word".

We do have a staturatory system, based on Gods Word, of oath to tell the Truth.
But then...we are well aware, all men DO NOT tell the Truth.
If the telling of the Truth was guaranteed, there would be no need for opportunity of weeks, months, years of investigating, "IF" a testifier Told the Truth, and opportunity for Appeal and Review of sentencing. (Which I do favor and agree with.)

Per individual States, a death penalty, is or is not lawfully allowed, and such a penalty not secret.
(It is published for every persons access.)

Per Scriptural teaching;
Obey God, Obey your governing authorities, and every man shall bare his own burden, (Gal 6:5), or otherwise (bare the "consequences" of his own actions).

I would say, it is NOT the duty or even the Right of a citizen of one State to dictate what the citizens of another State must do.
Further, that those who oppose a death sentence of men, (particularly if murder is something they think themselves likely to do) should seek residency in State with no death penalty.
I currently am a resident of a State, with a large population, a large crime index, and an express lane to carrying out death sentences for murder, (which for the commission of murder), I have no objection to.

 

[JohnPaul]

I do too. But it's incumbent on society itself to make sure only honorable and upright men are placed in positions of judging. Usually, the government goes as the people go. A society that hates righteousness will hate righteous men and not have them in places of authority. They will want people like themselves to be over them. That's why America is where it's at today.

You are exactly right Ferris.

 

[Rita]

Obviously I come from a country that did away with the death penalty many years ago, but it’s something I find I have mixed views on. There have been many people who faced this penalty only to be proved innocent afterwards. However this was mainly because forensic proof just wasn’t possible or developed.
That being said there is just so much corruption these days, and power can be used in so wrong ways ……..I think if it was 100% proved that someone was a danger to society and a sociopath, then If it was law I would agree with it.
I am not totally sure I would feel okay about voting for it to come back to the U.K. though………
I am presuming that it use to be the norm in all states but gradually changed over the years …….was that done by voting in each state ?
Rita

 

[JohnPaul]

Obviously I come from a country that did away with the death penalty many years ago, but it’s something I find I have mixed views on. There have been many people who faced this penalty only to be proved innocent afterwards. However this was mainly because forensic proof just wasn’t possible or developed.
That being said there is just so much corruption these days, and power can be used in so wrong ways ……..I think if it was 100% proved that someone was a danger to society and a sociopath, then If it was law I would agree with it.
I am not totally sure I would feel okay about voting for it to come back to the U.K. though………
I am presuming that it use to be the norm in all states but gradually changed over the years …….was that done by voting in each state ?
Rita

I'm for the death penalty, though the liberal Governor in my State of New Jersey Governor Corzine,did away with it and it's never been reinstated not even with conservative Republican Governors such as Chris Christie.

I think the Wests in your country who were committing those atrocities deserved to die instead of living their i
lives out in jail.

Or the Manson family here in America, why waste money on these degenerates? The death penalty had just been overturned when these degenerates were jailed for life.

 

[JohnPaul]

Jesus Christ opposed the death penalty as seen below, the woman was guilty of death by stoning (Adultery)

Example: How many jurors in court rooms have committed 1st degree murder through their acts in killing the unborn (Abortion), and have passed sentence on others, this being comparable to the Pharisees below?

John 8:1-11KJV
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Committing adultery which is still wrong, but not as serious as an offence such as murder, rape or pedophilia, should not be punishable by death nor is it in the civilized world anymore except in the Muslim countries, it should have a form of punishment, which I don't know.

But when you commit murder, or your a repeat offender in raping women and children, then yes I believe you should be put to death, there is no cure for repeat rapists and Child molesters.

 

[Rita]

I'm for the death penalty, though the liberal Governor in my State of New Jersey Governor Corzine,did away with it and it's never been reinstated not even with conservative Republican Governors such as Chris Christie.

I think the Wests in your country who were committing those atrocities deserved to die instead of living their i
lives out in jail.

Or the Manson family here in America, why waste money on these degenerates? The death penalty had just been overturned when these degenerates were jailed for life.

I don’t tend to think about ‘ what they deserve ‘ as such because they will have to stand before God and give an account. West didn’t survive long in prison and ended up committing suicide. As we don’t have the death penalty I just accept that the punishment is Imprisonment. Many serial killers have to live in prison with their continuous inner desires not being fulfilled, to me death can be an escape on one level. ( that’s just my opinion)

 

[JohnPaul]

I don’t tend to think about ‘ what they deserve ‘ as such because they will have to stand before God and give an account. West didn’t survive long in prison and ended up committing suicide. As we don’t have the death penalty I just accept that the punishment is Imprisonment. Many serial killers have to live in prison with their continuous inner desires not being fulfilled, to me death can be an escape on one level. ( that’s just my opinion)

Why give these sociopaths comfort in jail and waste tax payers money, swift justice with a bullet to the back of the head and it's all over, and they can go reside with their master Satan.

 

[Rita]

Why give these sociopaths comfort in jail and waste tax payers money, swift justice with a bullet to the back of the head and it's all over, and they can go reside with their master Satan.

My post was written from the prospective that we don’t have the death penalty at all in the U.K, and it’s been years since it has even come up for re assessment or a vote. So, in that context, standing before God to give an account and not being able to give into their desires is the only way I can think that they may have some kind of justice for what they did.
In my earlier post I did say that i would agree with the death penalty if someone was a sociopath and their crimes were proved ,I would agree with the death penalty.
Rita

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus Christ opposed the death penalty as seen below

By law Jesus had to oppose putting her to death because there is a law to follow concerning how to administer the death penalty. By law the witnesses are to be the first in stoning her. And I think they were unwilling to do that because they suddenly became aware of their own sins that required the death penalty.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm quite confident He did not want to see her put to death for her adultery, but rather to forgive her, if that's what she wanted. But, surely, He is not saying she is somehow not worthy of the death penalty. That would defeat the whole purpose for Him coming to die for our sins.

 

[amadeus]

I don't know.
But I think it starts with detecting what capacity for empathy the offender displays and if they care about the harm they have done, and how willingly they take responsibility for what they've done without blaming others and making excuses. Some people can care about being in bondage to bad behavior. There's hope for them. Others don't, and can't. All factors that I think a judge should take into consideration when deciding if a person is going to be trusted to be among the living anymore or not.

While I agree, I try not to set up rules and regulations for my own reaction to people unseen and unknown. I want to take them as they come and always give them the time to show what they really are and to go from there.

God may give us the ability to see some things regard to others, but still, we should, I believe, try to give them the chance to do things right, if at all possible. I certainly recognize that some of them never will.

I have been hurt more than once because I trusted a person who was not trustworthy. I won't stop trusting everyone because of that.

 

[JohnPaul]

By law Jesus had to oppose putting her to death because there is a law to follow concerning how to administer the death penalty. By law the witnesses are to be the first in stoning her. And I think they were unwilling to do that because they suddenly became aware of their own sins that required the death penalty.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm quite confident He did not want to see her put to death for her adultery, but rather to forgive her, if that's what she wanted. But, surely, He is not saying she is somehow not worthy of the death penalty. That would defeat the whole purpose for Him coming to die for our sins.

Some form of punishment is needed when adultery is.committird, but not death, repentance and the to beg for forgivenev is needed.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

While I agree, I try not to set up rules and regulations for my own reaction to people unseen and unknown. I want to take them as they come and always give them the time to show what they really are and to go from there.

God may give us the ability to see some things regard to others, but still, we should, I believe, try to give them the chance to do things right, if at all possible. I certainly recognize that some of them never will.

Thankfully, I'm not presently in a position to give someone a death penalty. Because I do know, that given time, there is the slim chance even the most hardened psychopath can come to his senses. I think Ted Bundy did. Don't quote me on that, though. And perhaps at least one other well known serial killer did.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have been hurt more than once because I trusted a person who was not trustworthy. I won't stop trusting everyone because of that.

We're definitely different that way. I will stop putting my safety and welfare in the hands of someone who has demonstrated they can not be trusted. I won't hate them. I won't hurt them. I won't retaliate against them. I may even pray for them. But I will not put myself at risk with them...unless I sense some spiritual benefit for them in doing that. IOW, the Spirit is leading me to do that. I've learned to cast off the guilt trip that people can often lay on us Christians about having to just give it all up for unrepentant people choosing to live a life of evil. (Don't misunderstand. I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying.)

 

[amadeus]

Thankfully, I'm not presently in a position to give someone a death penalty. Because I do know that, given time, there is the slim chance even the most hardened psychopathy can come to his senses. I think Ted Bundy did. Don't quote me on that, though. And perhaps at least one other well known serial killer.

I heard about such things and perhaps even read some testimonies. My memory fails me on details any more. I hope that all of the good ones were true!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Some form of punishment is needed when adultery is.committird

I think the everlasting shame of having done that, and the harm it does to a marriage is sufficient punishment for adultery.

 

[Rita]

Some form of punishment is needed when adultery is.committird, but not death, repentance and the to beg for forgivenev is needed.

I agree their should be accountability but surely this is not the same as a criminal act ( my ex committed adultery for 16years of a 27year old marriage ) I do happen to know that both of us were at fault within our marriage and that was something I had to come to terms with, it doesn’t excuse the adultery, but he wasn’t a criminal in my eyes. He faced the consequences of his decisions, as we all do when we choose to do things wrong. He never really sort my forgiveness , he died two years ago. However I was able to forgive him long before that and we remained friends. Rita

 

[amadeus]

We're definitely different that way. I will stop putting my safety and welfare in the hands of someone who has demonstrated they can not be trusted. I won't hate them. I won't hurt them. I won't retaliate against them. I may even pray for them. But I will not put myself at risk with them...unless I sense some spiritual benefit for them in doing that. IOW, the Spirit is leading me to do that. I've learned to cast off the guilt trip that people can often lay on us Christians about having to just give it all up for unrepentant people choosing to live a life of evil. (Don't misunderstand. I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying.)

Back again then to the question of how many times should we forgive someone who have offended us. I have not always allowed them to "enter my home" again but... one wonders at times.

When I was on active duty in Viet Nam, a very personable likeable fellow arrived and was assigned to our barracks in Danang. Everyone liked the guy including me. Eventually he was sent elsewhere in Viet Nam and was caught stealing money from the lockers of the guys he lived with in another barracks... Caught he confessed also to stealing from everyone in my barracks as well. No one locked their lockers.

He was court martialed and sentenced to a prison term. On an appeal to the commanding general of U.S Forces in Viet Nam [General Westmoreland] his sentence was suspended if he agreed to pay back as he was able all of the money to the people from whom he had stolen. He agreed.

I remember receiving some kind of notice about his agreement to pay back my $40.00. He never paid me back anything nor did any of my friends ever receive back any of their money. The offender completed his time on active service and was never sent to prison. He really always seemed to be such a nice guy when he lived with us...