Death penalty.

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Do you think there should be a death penalty?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 62.0%
  • No

    Votes: 16 32.0%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 3 6.0%

  • Total voters
    50

RainAndIceCream

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@LC627said:
"The moral of Noah's Ark is that God wants you to have a yacht!" ...​




Ummmmmm, it would seem that BOTH of you will "laugh" your way to you graves:

Lke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.

Personally, I have a "lifeboat" in a remote location which provides shelter, food, water, and fuel to last some 6 months. And I've been working on providing for my family for some 7 years to make things ready. I'm not through, and only have about another year until I expect we'll need to "evacuate".

So you might consider preparing your provisions as Jesus instructs. But you only have about a year.

Good Luck,
Bobby Jo
God does not give us luck, but blessings.
And that is quite optimistic of you would you agree? Emmanuel tells us that no one but the Father knows what you claim shall occur in about a year.
Further, if you will indulge me, the prosperity doctrine that is taught today by what appear to be materialist humanists carried by a large following of $ustainers, is in no wise reminiscent of Emmanuel's teaching.
Emmanuel was God walking among us in his time. He did not have to walk everywhere he and his Disciples ventured, but he did. He said, the son of man has no place to lay his head, while after he arrived on earth he and his family were given riches that were to insure they would want for nothing. He lived simply, as did his followers. He preached to the poor, the disenfranchised, and he warned the rich and materialistic against their ways.
Whatever you ask for in his name shall be granted unto you, as Jesus said, is a promise that in my experience has been lashed to death by those who think a mansion, great expensive rides, furs, bling, and more and more cash, are proof they are beloved by God. For the treasures they lay up here on earth do not translate to Heaven.Flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does decay inherit immortality.

Jesus did not teach today's prosperity gospel. Unless the Lord leads them to a change of heart, today's prosperity humanist materialists with a following of $ustainers shall find that out. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.
"The Lord commonly gives riches to foolish people, to whom he gives nothing else."
Martin Luther
 

Bobby Jo

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The scripture that comes to my mind is love your enemies, do not judge and forgive 77 times.
My knowledge of scripture isn't that good so tell me which verses ur thinking of

It ain't the milk, -- it's the meat. So let me know when you're ready for meat.

Bobby Jo
 

Cristo Rei

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It ain't the milk, -- it's the meat. So let me know when you're ready for meat.

Bobby Jo

Milk... Meat... What does that even mean?
If the answer to the question was that clear then there wouldn't be this many opinions
I gave the bible teachings which helped bring me to my conclusion, same with others on this thread.
Now, im not a mind reader to know which specific verses you have in mind so why don't just spill it
 

RainAndIceCream

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I should now be about the topic of this discussion. The Old Testament evidence of a death penalty remains in place. I know my Emmanuel born of Mary was the God who does not change. Therefore, my answer to the OP question was and remains, I am unsure if there should be a death penalty.
I support The Innocence Project, and thank God for them. The number of innocent persons wrongly incarcerated in America is staggering. Worse, and yet a blessing due to the diligence of TIP, is the precious lives of those wrongly convicted innocents who were sentenced to death row were saved before they could be murdered by the state. Praise God.

I have a friend who has served more than a quarter century in law enforcement and has witnessed the great evils the fallen human race is capable of. Especially and understandably upsetting are those evils perpetrated against babies and children. He happens to also serve in a state where the law supports capital punishment for those most heinous evils.
He says when I ask him about his view about the DP, some people ask to be executed. It is as though they are aware they are so fallen that they commit crime after crime as if hoping someone will stop them the only way that is guaranteed to. Because many who are vicious callous murderers on our streets are worse when confined in our prisons.

Lord knows God is no pacifist, I then realize I cannot sustain that ideology myself and keep to his example of righteousness and sound justice.
What gives me pause concerning that final solution to the most evil of criminal acts are those cases I've come across while supporting Innocence Project. There is no appeal or exoneration for an innocent who is sentenced to death and the sentence is carried out before they're saved by the evidence and the law rightly applied this time. They're forever dead in the eyes of the state, and the state shall forever be guilty of murdering one who was not worthy of the ultimate punishment.

I see a sentence in lieu of the death penalty that insures hope and reprieve for the wrongly accused; life! In some states a life sentence means natural life, no parole. In others, there is hope for parole after serving a large portion of the term. Twenty-five years is not unusual a time before being considered for parole.
In that way, the innocent incarcerated in what is a living death, and hell on earth, prison, are able to be saved by advocacy groups who seek to free innocent people from that horribly violent stinking cloying existence. And for those who are guilty, they are able to find their way to perhaps become better people if they are able to find programs inside that lead them to that path of redemption.

For those who are in capital punishment jurisdictions, death row is solitary confinement. They're kept away from the violence and the sub-culture that is general population. Spiritual programs, clergy, hope, visit death row with regularity and as such those who are truly guilty there have hope of repentance and salvation, praise God. And perhaps even contrition so that they realize they put themselves there, as the truly guilty offender. Forgiveness is also a life sentence. May all who are in that place find their way to the love and light of Christ. Amen.

That's my view. And finally, I'm on topic. (happy dance):)
 

Scoot

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The executioner is next in line then, according to those verses. “Shed no mans blood”...would certainly apply to the executioner as well..?

If so - would it also apply to soldiers? What about defending one's family from armed intruders if they're set on raping and killing?

Or more importantly and closer to that scripture - how did Moses marry it up with other laws that said to put people to death for certain crimes, and how did Moses reconcile it when He commanded others to be put to death himself?

It seems that the scriptures contradict themselves in this. The beauty is - I don't believe the scriptures do. When scriptures appear to contradict themselves to me - I use it as a warning light / flag that I have misunderstood the intent or interpretation of those scriptures (or they are interpreted incorrectly to the english langauge), or something else - and there's a lot more to it than I've realised, and I need to go back to find out how the complement each other instead of contradict.

I'm unsure on capital punishment - I lean towards it being biblical (with a righteous government) - but I can not be certain at the moment.

But one thing I'm absolutely convinced of. Shed no mans blood can not mean no one ever under any circumstances, otherwise God was commanding people to sin and break His own law. Between that, and me having a misunderstanding of the scriptures - I know where the fault lies. :)
 

Josho

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Lke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.

You always quote these verses, but I wonder what the sword was for, as after Jesus's death and resurrection there is no record of any of the apostles in the NT using their sword to defend themselves from being persecuted.

Could it have been to hunt? Could it have been to skin an animal and prepare it for a meal?
 

kcnalp

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Execution is against all the NT says! Jesus said we'd better be merciful if we want Him to give us mercy!
 

Pisteuo

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If so - would it also apply to soldiers? What about defending one's family from armed intruders if they're set on raping and killing?

Or more importantly and closer to that scripture - how did Moses marry it up with other laws that said to put people to death for certain crimes, and how did Moses reconcile it when He commanded others to be put to death himself?

It seems that the scriptures contradict themselves in this. The beauty is - I don't believe the scriptures do. When scriptures appear to contradict themselves to me - I use it as a warning light / flag that I have misunderstood the intent or interpretation of those scriptures (or they are interpreted incorrectly to the english langauge), or something else - and there's a lot more to it than I've realised, and I need to go back to find out how the complement each other instead of contradict.

I'm unsure on capital punishment - I lean towards it being biblical (with a righteous government) - but I can not be certain at the moment.

But one thing I'm absolutely convinced of. Shed no mans blood can not mean no one ever under any circumstances, otherwise God was commanding people to sin and break His own law. Between that, and me having a misunderstanding of the scriptures - I know where the fault lies. :)
I cannot answer for soldiers or anyone else. They/you cannot get fat on what I eat. So you will have to live off your own convictions as you work through scripture and are led. As far as I know, God has not commanded anyone to take another’s life for thousands of years. Kings and governments are another subject. I feel led to spread the message of life rather than death. Repentance rather than vengeance.
 
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CadyandZoe

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The scripture that comes to my mind is love your enemies, do not judge and forgive 77 times.
My knowledge of scripture isn't that good so tell me which verses ur thinking of
I think the scripture draws a distinction between what we do as individuals and what the state does. Although we love our enemies and pray for them and forgive those who trespass against us, we still expect a criminal to be punished.

Right?
 

Cristo Rei

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I think the scripture draws a distinction between what we do as individuals and what the state does. Although we love our enemies and pray for them and forgive those who trespass against us, we still expect a criminal to be punished.

Right?

I agree but should a judge be given the power to call for someones life?
Can the justice system be relied upon to stay true and not be tempted by financial gain?
If u answered yes and yes then please go to post #36 on the 2nd page of this thread for my response...
 

CadyandZoe

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I agree but should a judge be given the power to call for someones life?
Can the justice system be relied upon to stay true and not be tempted by financial gain?
If u answered yes and yes then please go to post #36 on the 2nd page of this thread for my response...
I don't know. In our country we set the bar very high. Trial by Jury; beyond reasonable doubt, and such.
 

Renniks

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Execution is against all the NT says! Jesus said we'd better be merciful if we want Him to give us mercy!
If someone trys to kill me or my family, I can not shoot them?
I should just stand by? Not happening, unless I'm already dead.
 
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Renniks

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You always quote these verses, but I wonder what the sword was for, as after Jesus's death and resurrection there is no record of any of the apostles in the NT using their sword to defend themselves from being persecuted.

Could it have been to hunt? Could it have been to skin an animal and prepare it for a meal?
Swords are not skinning tools. Against a robber or lion they could be a deterrent, however. I don't think they were used to defend against the law of the land, however, even when persecution happened.
 

Enoch111

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Execution is against all the NT says! Jesus said we'd better be merciful if we want Him to give us mercy!
Execution is in the hands of the justice system. What Jesus said was not addressed to the state, but to individuals who are His disciples.
 
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Josho

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Swords are not skinning tools. Against a robber or lion they could be a deterrent, however. I don't think they were used to defend against the law of the land, however, even when persecution happened.

Still though it could have been used to hunt or to kill a cow in the field for food, people used to kill their own chicken by slicing their necks, a few still do, but a lot used to do it.

My point is the use of a literal sword for self defense just wasn't recorded in the NT, it just doesn't say one of the Apostles used it for self defence against a robber or an attacker.

The only case where a literal sword was used by an apostle, was Simon Peter, striking the high priest's servant's ear off.

Then after that action, Jesus said in Matthew 26:52

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

This is why I do not get people's position of execution. As it's living under the Old Testament retaliation law, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and in the case of execution "take a life for a life."

In the NT Jesus taught love your enemies, grace and forgiveness.

I find here in Australia, even though we don't have the death penalty, a lot of Aussies tend to hold grudges and unforgiveness a lot against others. And even against innocent people, some are used as scapegoats, for example if I ever became a Catholic Priest in Australia, I would cop a whole heap of blame for something I did not do.

We even see the case of Israel Folau, he is treated like a criminal, just for Christian instagram posts, AFL footballer Gary Abblett Jr simply liked Folau's instagram post, and was treated like a criminal by some of the public, and was pressured to remove his like from Folau's post, he did end up removing the like, but he was booed quite a lot the next few games after giving that like, he still follows Folau on Instagram though.
And yes he still gets hate whenever he tries to post something Christian.

This is sad, if you are in the public eye in Australia, it's hard to talk about something Christian without getting verbally attacked for it.
 
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Renniks

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Still though it could have been used to hunt or to kill a cow in the field for food, people used to kill their own chicken by slicing their necks, a few still do, but a lot used to do it.

My point is the use of a literal sword for self defense just wasn't recorded in the NT, it just doesn't say one of the Apostles used it for self defence against a robber or an attacker.

The only case where a literal sword was used by an apostle, was Simon Peter, striking the high priest's servant's ear off.

Then after that action, Jesus said in Matthew 26:52

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

This is why I do not get people's position of execution. As it's living under the Old Testament retaliation law, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and in the case of execution "take a life for a life."

In the NT Jesus taught love your enemies, grace and forgiveness.

I find here in Australia, even though we don't have the death penalty, a lot of Aussies tend to hold grudges and unforgiveness a lot against others. And even against innocent people, some are used as scapegoats, for example if I ever became a Catholic Priest in Australia, I would cop a whole heap of blame for something I did not do.

We even see the case of Israel Folau, he is treated like a criminal, just for Christian instagram posts, AFL footballer Gary Abblett Jr simply liked Folau's instagram post, and was treated like a criminal by some of the public, and was pressured to remove his like from Folau's post, he did end up removing the like, but he was booed quite a lot the next few games after giving that like, he still follows Folau on Instagram though.
And yes he still gets hate whenever he tries to post something Christian.

This is sad, if you are in the public eye in Australia, it's hard to talk about something Christian without getting verbally attacked for it.
That is sad. I kill chickens with an axe myself. I've skinned hundreds of animals, that's why I know a big knife isn't needed. And a sword would be way too large. A gun is often a deterrent to people with bad intentions, even if never fired. I imagine a sword would serve the same purpose in that time.
 
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marksman

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Many are probably conversant with the idea of the punishment fitting the crime. We don't have the death penalty here but where it is used, if the punishment fitted the crime, there may not be so much of a demand for the death penalty.

In my country, first-degree murder has a mandatory sentence of life in prison. Does anyone get life in prison? NO. The last one to get that was Martin Bryant who murdered 43 innocent people including children at Port McArthur in Tasmania.

Prior to that, a Julian Knight murdered 9 people in cold blood on the streets of Melbourne. He was given life with a minimum of 22 years. I mean you can murder nine people and get 22 years!! He has served his 22 years and they are desperately trying to find some way to keep him in jail. The families of those nine people are terrified of meeting him on the street again.

And then there is as I mentioned a catholic priest who abused 43 boys and he gets 10 years.

Australians by nature are reasonable people and are not vengeance-seeking hard nuts. If a person is dealt with reasonable and sensibly they tend to let sleeping dogs lie. But if someone is cheated out of justice, watch out.

In both Bryant and Knights cases, they wanted the death penalty because they saw that as reasonable.