Defending the Trinity

[shturt678]

JoJo
Thanks for your post but sadly we have been over this ground a number of times in this debate and it appears the Trinitarians will not remove their trifocals.
If only they knew what was a stake.
Purity

p.s

Check out Randor rant below - he thinks one needs to be born of the Spirit before they can understand (ha) what a joke!

Would "born again" work? Praying to our Lord God-man Jesus also work? Must have something to do with the Trinity?

Old realiter believing Jack

 

[Purity]

Would "born again" work? Praying to our Lord God-man Jesus also work? Must have something to do with the Trinity?

Old realiter believing Jack

Nothing here is there? - your demigod theology has you confused regarding being born again and I have nothing but your "I said so approach".

No evidence mixed with the dark councils where the traditions of men are taught... its not a wonder there is such blindness in the world.

All will be revealed in time.
Purity

 

[shturt678]

Nothing here is there? - your demigod theology has you confused regarding being born again and I have nothing but your "I said so approach".

No evidence mixed with the dark councils where the traditions of men are taught... its not a wonder there is such blindness in the world.

All will be revealed in time.
Purity

Thank you again for your reponse and caring!

I had always thought that the regenerating agent, ie, God the Holy Spirit (a part of the Trinity) is joined to water for one undergoing a "born again" experience?

Old Jack's opinion

btw realiter = God united with the man Jesus at conception, ie, concluding the Trinity: the union of the three divine Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) in one Godhead (state of being God) where all three are "co-equal," "co-eternal," and "co-substantial."

 

[JoJoRoss]

Check out Randor rant below - he thinks one needs to be born of the Spirit before they can understand (ha) what a joke!

Acts 5:32-And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[nothead]

Thank you again for your reponse and caring!

I had always thought that the regenerating agent, ie, God the Holy Spirit (a part of the Trinity) is joined to water for one undergoing a "born again" experience?

Old Jack's opinion

btw realiter = God united with the man Jesus at conception, ie, concluding the Trinity: the union of the three divine Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) in one Godhead (state of being God) where all three are "co-equal," "co-eternal," and "co-substantial."

Your definition of REALITER has nothing whatsoever to do with the canon of NT, sir. In fact, if it was so important, maybe God would have put it there, instead of YOUR IMPROVEMENTS thereof?

Say?

 

[shturt678]

Your definition of REALITER has nothing whatsoever to do with the canon of NT, sir

Thank you again for your response and caring, "sir" used as I'm of a lower paygrade thus is used in respect, ie, no sarcasm).

Only a head's up, ie, "Canon" includes the non-inspired "Deuterocanonical books" thus "Scripture" should be used.

A little more than a head's up, ie, one more paygrade up ("Scripture's Text"): "REALITER" in Heb.1:3, "who, as being his glory's effulgence and His BEING'S impress, and as bearing all the (existing) things by means of the uttered word of His power......sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high, etc."



. In fact, if it was so important, maybe God would have put it there, instead of YOUR IMPROVEMENTS thereof?

Say?

Summarizing: "The Son of man (God) is realiter, that is in deed and truth, exalted according to His human nature to the right hand of the almighty majesty and power of God, because He (that man) was assumed into God when he was concedived of the Holy Ghost in His mother's womb, and His human nature was personally united with the Son of the Highest."

The former is the exact definition of realiter as opposed to the more inferior hypostasis sir.

Only Old Jack's opinion

 

[Floyd]

Nothing here is there? - your demigod theology has you confused regarding being born again and I have nothing but your "I said so approach".

No evidence mixed with the dark councils where the traditions of men are taught... its not a wonder there is such blindness in the world.

All will be revealed in time.
Purity

Hi Purity.
I have been absent; however; I am surprised that you and nothead are still chewing the same old fat?
Why won't you accept that your arguments are without foundation; and, heretical?
By the way; I notice that you sign off "in the masters service"; may I ask who you are referring to?
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity.
I have been absent; however; I am surprised that you and nothead are still chewing the same old fat?
Why won't you accept that your arguments are without foundation; and, heretical?
By the way; I notice that you sign off "in the masters service"; may I ask who you are referring to?
Floyd.

Welcome back Floyd.

When the Master returns I pray you will sit at his feet and learn of him.

“a Disciple Not Above His Master” – it was a general proverb Lk 6:40; Jn 13:16 cp. John 15:20.

Christ’s servants must not accept better treatment than their Lord

 

[nothead]

Your definition of REALITER has nothing whatsoever to do with the canon of NT, sir

Thank you again for your response and caring, "sir" used as I'm of a lower paygrade thus is used in respect, ie, no sarcasm).

Only a head's up, ie, "Canon" includes the non-inspired "Deuterocanonical books" thus "Scripture" should be used.

A little more than a head's up, ie, one more paygrade up ("Scripture's Text"): "REALITER" in Heb.1:3, "who, as being his glory's effulgence and His BEING'S impress, and as bearing all the (existing) things by means of the uttered word of His power......sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high, etc."



. In fact, if it was so important, maybe God would have put it there, instead of YOUR IMPROVEMENTS thereof?

Say?

Summarizing: "The Son of man (God) is realiter, that is in deed and truth, exalted according to His human nature to the right hand of the almighty majesty and power of God, because He (that man) was assumed into God when he was concedived of the Holy Ghost in His mother's womb, and His human nature was personally united with the Son of the Highest."

The former is the exact definition of realiter as opposed to the more inferior hypostasis sir.

Only Old Jack's opinion




Exact effulgence of God? Is this not what ANNOINTED means? The Shekinah reflected glory of the One who never said he is God, FROM the One who IS GOD??

 

[shturt678]

Exact effulgence of God? Is this not what ANNOINTED means? The Shekinah reflected glory of the One who never said he is God, FROM the One who IS GOD??

Always wondered if the "Angel of the Lord" in Exod. in the pillar cloud was, loosely speaking, the Pre-incarnate God-man Jesus, ie, the Shekinah?

Thank you for your response and caring again!

Heb.1:3, "who, as being his glory's effulgence and his being's impress,...." a better rendition following my Interlinear and in context. "his glory's effulgence" simply meaning the inscrutable glory of God streams forth in the Son, who is the effulgence of that glory, ie, "glory" is not just the shining forth of one of the divine attributes, but the shining forth of all of them; As the effulgence of God's glory the Son is God in essence, and has every divine attribute, yet not in the light to which no man can approach, which no man hath seen nor can see (ITim.6:16).

 

[nothead]

Thank you for your response and caring again!

Heb.1:3, "who, as being his glory's effulgence and his being's impress,...." a better rendition following my Interlinear and in context. "his glory's effulgence" simply meaning the inscrutable glory of God streams forth in the Son, who is the effulgence of that glory, ie, "glory" is not just the shining forth of one of the divine attributes, but the shining forth of all of them; As the effulgence of God's glory the Son is God in essence, and has every divine attribute, yet not in the light to which no man can approach, which no man hath seen nor can see (ITim.6:16).

Maybe old son needs a lesson on Glory, that old doxa which men are blessed to behold...

Jn 17

[SIZE=.75em]4 [/SIZE]I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[SIZE=.75em]5 [/SIZE]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

[SIZE=.75em]21 [/SIZE]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[SIZE=.75em]22 [/SIZE]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[SIZE=.75em]23 [/SIZE]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Now you know...the REST of the story, old son. This glory is not SHARED so much as passed down from God to beloved Son of God.

Making the Son of God AS DIVINE as he is gonna get, ontologically.

 

[Purity]

Exact effulgence of God? Is this not what ANNOINTED means? The Shekinah reflected glory of the One who never said he is God, FROM the One who IS GOD??

The blindness has set in Nothead - your understanding has been given to you by God.

 

[shturt678]

Maybe old son needs a lesson on Glory, that old doxa which men are blessed to behold...

Jn 17

[SIZE=.75em]4 [/SIZE]I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Thank you for your response, and caring again!

Jn.17:5, "now glorify thou me" means, "in my human nature"; "with the glory which I had with thee before the world was," means, "with the glory of my divine nature." The Logos did not empty himself of his divine glory when the world began nor at any point in time.

21

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[SIZE=.75em]22 [/SIZE]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[SIZE=.75em]23 [/SIZE]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Now you know...the REST of the story, old son. This glory is not SHARED so much as passed down from God to beloved Son of God.

Making the Son of God AS DIVINE as he is gonna get, ontologically.

Old Jack

btw The Son of God means the eternal, co-equal, essential Son, the 2nd Person of the Godhead, ie, Trinity.

 

[Purity]

with the glory which I had with thee before the world was," means, "with the glory of my divine nature." [/color]The Logos did not empty himself of his divine glory when the world began nor at any point in time. [/b]

Yeah right Old Jack! - yet another shifty eh? So much you don't know because you think you know.

John 17:22 The glory61 you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one

Now old Jack is teaching Jesus gave the disciples Gods divine nature.

If this was not so serious, it would be comical.

Why don't you do us all a favour Old Jack and simply say "I don't know what I am talking about but I am prepared to shut up and listen"

Harsh but true.

 

[Floyd]

Welcome back Floyd.

When the Master returns I pray you will sit at his feet and learn of him.

“a Disciple Not Above His Master” – it was a general proverb Lk 6:40; Jn 13:16 cp. John 15:20.

Christ’s servants must not accept better treatment than their Lord

Hi Purity; Your reply is unrelated to my question?
I already sit at my masters feet; but to me He is more than Master; He is Saviour and Friend; can you say the same?
Floyd.
PS: please don't regurgitate what we have already covered.

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity; Your reply is unrelated to my question?
I already sit at my masters feet; but to me He is more than Master; He is Saviour and Friend; can you say the same?
Floyd.
PS: please don't regurgitate what we have already covered.

Jesus has many titles all of which were bestowed on him by his Father. Terms such a friend and elder brother may be appropriate in some circumstances, though I do desire to use those titles which exult and elevate him - after all he is Gods Son.

 

[nothead]

Your definition of REALITER has nothing whatsoever to do with the canon of NT, sir

Thank you again for your response and caring, "sir" used as I'm of a lower paygrade thus is used in respect, ie, no sarcasm).

Only a head's up, ie, "Canon" includes the non-inspired "Deuterocanonical books" thus "Scripture" should be used.

A little more than a head's up, ie, one more paygrade up ("Scripture's Text"): "REALITER" in Heb.1:3, "who, as being his glory's effulgence and His BEING'S impress, and as bearing all the (existing) things by means of the uttered word of His power......sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high, etc."



. In fact, if it was so important, maybe God would have put it there, instead of YOUR IMPROVEMENTS thereof?

Say?

Summarizing: "The Son of man (God) is realiter, that is in deed and truth, exalted according to His human nature to the right hand of the almighty majesty and power of God, because He (that man) was assumed into God when he was concedived of the Holy Ghost in His mother's womb, and His human nature was personally united with the Son of the Highest."

The former is the exact definition of realiter as opposed to the more inferior hypostasis sir.

Only Old Jack's opinion




So then you behoove yourself to improve upon the Nicean Creed? This is your definition of the word you made up? And where does Jack the Realiter Inventor get his authority?

 

[shturt678]

Yeah right Old Jack! - yet another shifty eh? So much you don't know because you think you know.

John 17:22 The glory61 you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one

Now old Jack is teaching Jesus gave the disciples Gods divine nature.

If this was not so serious, it would be comical.

Why don't you do us all a favour Old Jack and simply say "I don't know what I am talking about but I am prepared to shut up and listen"

Harsh but true.

Thank you again for your response!

I thought that our God-man Jesus might strike a nerve, ie, our Lord Jesus plays hardball at times - I'm just a worthless clay vessel of our Lord.

Let's take another look at Jn.17:22 as I'm not ony 'correctable,' but 'refuteable.'

Jn.17:22 The purpose that the God-man Jesus has in making this gift is now added: "in order that they may be one even as we are one." The gift of the divine glory unites us in one body, great! How/s this sound to you so far? We, of whom the God-man Jesus says in v.19, "that also they be in us," are by this made one in the divine glory that thus comes to us, ie, GREAT!

When the three kathws "even as," vs. 11, 21, and now v.23, are grammatically and contextually placed side by side, each sheds light on the other, ie, all Greek to me, however sounds GREAT! The last adds the predicate which is left out in the other two: "even as we are one." How's it feel to be a part of the "1"? In this restatement of the oneness of believers, we must not forget the written Word, correct? This Word mediates the indwelling of the God-man Jesus within us and thus the reception of His glory in us, and thus the oneness that results.

When the God-man Jesus says, "even as we are one," His human nature must not be left out, correct? This is the nature that received the divine glory, received it for our sakes in order that we might be partakers of it through His God-man indwelling.

Again through His human nature in which all the God-head dwells bodily (Col.2:9) Jesus is our Savior; and all His saving gifts come to us through this nature, here in particular the gift of His glory.

Old Jack, refuteable at any point.

 

[Purity]

Lets consider for a moment what it is you distort.

1. Jesus Christ and his nature
2. Jesus Christ and his teaching
3. The Glory of God
4. Their oneness in Spirit (mind)
5. Their relationship
6. The Holy Spirit Power of God
7. The Glory of the Saints to come

Your theology destroys truth at every letter and you cant see that!

John 8 must apply - you are from beneath - no other way I'm afraid.

Purity

 

[shturt678]

Lets consider for a moment what it is you distort.

1. Jesus Christ and his nature
2. Jesus Christ and his teaching
3. The Glory of God
4. Their oneness in Spirit (mind)
5. Their relationship
6. The Holy Spirit Power of God
7. The Glory of the Saints to come

Your theology destroys truth at every letter and you cant see that!

John 8 must apply - you are from beneath - no other way I'm afraid.

Purity[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your response, and even caring about me!

I do have to admit at times I'm 'of this world' continually trying to only be 'in this world,', ie, trying not live the 'here and now.' However our Godman Jesus was from above from eternity; and the Jews then and for us today, by way of escape, simply by faith be at His side, eg, Jn.8:23.

Let's both you and I by a leap of faith join our Godman Jesus at His side this day?

Old Jack 'beneath' other's paygrade, ie, at the bottom of the heap.

btw let's get the facts straight then distort them.