Did Jesus claim to be God?

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Fred J

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If God the Word is also a creation then God the Word created himself. The text clearly states "by him..."
Where is GOD the FATHER then ? It is merely your assumption to ridicule.

Why in John 3:16, GOD the FATHER declares the Son as, 'HIS 'only begotten Son'.

One in the beginning the 'only begotten by the FATHER'.

If i were to declare to my friends, this is my only begotten son, did he begotten by himself ?

'By Him', meaning, 'GOD by Him', as liken unto Genesis 1:26Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
If He is not the Son pre-incarnate itself, how come He gets to create all things.

In Genesis 1:26, 'in our image', isn't He in the beginning itself the Son who is in the image of the invisible FATHER ?
 

Peterlag

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Where is GOD the FATHER then ? It is merely your assumption to ridicule.

Why in John 3:16, GOD the FATHER declares the Son as, 'HIS 'only begotten Son'.

One in the beginning the 'only begotten by the FATHER'.

If i were to declare to my friends, this is my only begotten son, did he begotten by himself ?

'By Him', meaning, 'GOD by Him', as liken unto Genesis 1:26Colossians 1:16 (KJV)

If He is not the Son pre-incarnate itself, how come He gets to create all things.

In Genesis 1:26, 'in our image', isn't He in the beginning itself the Son who is in the image of the invisible FATHER ?
If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.
 

Fred J

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No this is obviously referring to the incarnation.
The new declaration of the FATHER, also did HE at, 'anytime', 'even prior', said to which of the angels, 'with question marks'.

Read the next verse 6, 'when HE brings in the firstbegotten into the world'.

i know you would want to say, HIS firstbegotten through Mary ?

False, for HIS firstbegotten by linage is, 'Adam'. Read, 1 Corinthians chapter 15, about the first man and the second man.

The 'second man' is the Lord from Heaven, for He is the firstbegotten in Heaven, whom GOD brings forth into the world.
 

Spyder

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You seem emotional about the subject. My opinion is you deny Jesus being God that is a grave error. It is Antichrist in my opinion.
Have you ever questioned yourself about this?

If Yeshua is NOT God, and you claim that He is, are you not violating God's statements throughout the O.T. and His first commandment to Moses?

If Yeshua IS God, and I don't acknowledge that fact, what sin do I commit? I have been instructed to know that He is the Son of God. And THAT I do.

All those years in Sunday school where EVERYBODY knows that "Jesus is God" cannot be corrected without Yahweh's help, but I expect that Yahweh will correct those who have violated Yahweh's command to not put any God before Him and repeatedly to us "I am Yahweh, besides me there is no God."
 

Aunty Jane

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Have you ever questioned yourself about this?

If Yeshua is NOT God, and you claim that He is, are you not violating God's statements throughout the O.T. and His first commandment to Moses?
The ones who accept this belief have never really tested it out by scripture....only their twisted interpretation of it. If Jesus is God then who is his Father? If the Father “sent “ his “firstborn” son to pay a ransom for mankind, then the ransom price was set by God’s law already......”a life for a life”....not just any life, but a sinless one. No human was sinless, so God sent his own sacrifice to save mankind. The story of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only begotten son is pictorial.....God provided the sacrifice there as well....but the willingness of both Abraham and his son to offer it obediently to God, was taken as them giving it figuratively. (Heb 11:17-19)
If Yeshua IS God, and I don't acknowledge that fact, what sin do I commit? I have been instructed to know that He is the Son of God. And THAT I do.
All true Christians can see this.....the Christ never once said that he was God incarnate.....something that he would have mentioned often if it was true....but he never did. How can a foundational doctrine be built on something Jesus never taught?
All those years in Sunday school where EVERYBODY knows that "Jesus is God" cannot be corrected without Yahweh's help, but I expect that Yahweh will correct those who have violated Yahweh's command to not put any God before Him and repeatedly to us "I am Yahweh, besides me there is no God."
2 Cor 10:4-5...
“For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ”.

Strongly entrenched beliefs such as this and many others can be hard to eradicate from the indoctrinated mind.....this is why Jesus could say....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him . . . .This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (John 6:44, 65)

Yahweh, by means of his Christ, is the only one who can reverse what satan has done....(Rom 1:18)
The devil, through his human minions, “exchanged the truth for the lie” in so many ways....but the sheep hear the voice of the Fine Shepherd and he leads them out of the devil’s counterfeit Christianity....and they follow him to greener pastures, where they are healed and spiritually well fed.
“When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.” (John 10:4)

Yes.....the “correction” is coming but it will take the majority by complete surprise. (Matt 7:21-23)
 
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Truthnightmare

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You missed a bunch that say Jesus is God and Hell fire is everlasting.
Sup bro….

If the fires of hell are everlasting, then hell must be everlasting in of itself..

What do you make of this?

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 

Jack

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Sup bro….

If the fires of hell are everlasting, then hell must be everlasting in of itself..
No, Hell is created and sustained by God for the Devil and his angels. but BILLIONS of humans chose to follow Satan.
What do you make of this?

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Hell is merged into the Lake of Fire and 'death' NEVER means 'cease to exist'.
 

Truthnightmare

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No, Hell is created and sustained by God for the Devil and his angels. but BILLIONS of humans chose to follow Satan.

Hell is merged into the Lake of Fire and 'death' NEVER means 'cease to exist'.
Does not “perish” mean cease to exist!
 

URwrongAgain

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Have you ever questioned yourself about this?

If Yeshua is NOT God, and you claim that He is, are you not violating God's statements throughout the O.T. and His first commandment to Moses?

If Yeshua IS God, and I don't acknowledge that fact, what sin do I commit? I have been instructed to know that He is the Son of God. And THAT I do.

All those years in Sunday school where EVERYBODY knows that "Jesus is God" cannot be corrected without Yahweh's help, but I expect that Yahweh will correct those who have violated Yahweh's command to not put any God before Him and repeatedly to us "I am Yahweh, besides me there is no God."
Do you worship Jesus?
 

Triumph1300

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Does not “perish” mean cease to exist!

That's your opinion.
-----------------------------

Here's the Biblical meaning:

....it refers to the judgment of God which is eternal separation from God in conscious suffering

Jesus calls it "eternal punishment" in Matthew 25:46. In Luke 16:26 he says there is a great chasm fixed between heaven and hell, so that no one goes from one to the other. Perishing is eternal and irreversible. Perishing means wrath; it means fiery torment; it means separation from God; and it lasts forever.
 

URwrongAgain

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That's your opinion.
-----------------------------

Here's the Biblical meaning:

....it refers to the judgment of God which is eternal separation from God in conscious suffering.
You know, over a very long period of time, I have observed, that more than the majority
of all the opinions I have heard or read, turned out to be wrong.

That is why I very seldom form an opinion of anything and only inquire of it from God.
 
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Truthnightmare

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That's your opinion.
-----------------------------

Here's the Biblical meaning:

....it refers to the judgment of God which is eternal separation from God in conscious suffering.
But isn’t that your opinion? Well… let’s just let the scriptures speak.

2 Pet 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (KJV)
1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (KJV)
What does the phrase never shalt thou be any more” mean?

Ezek 28:18-19
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. (KJV)

And scripture lays out a blotting or a non existence, as seen below…

Isa 47:11-15
11 Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.
12 Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.
13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.
14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee. (KJV)

This is speaking about those involved in the occult and what happens to them on Judgment day. They are cast into the flame (the lake of fire) [Rev 20:14]. And then there is nothing left of them, no remains glowing warm, nothing left to burn.

But yes… my opinion.
 

Truthnightmare

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Of course not. Rev 20 'they will be tormented day and night forever and ever'.
I see what you are seeing…. But it is a idiom.
the 'torment for ever and ever' spoken of, for they will never ever be again, and the torment is them knowing prior to execution of judgment that they will forever be separated from God and denied eternal life in Heaven.

Revelation 21
and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Yet… you say pain will still exist throughout eternity. Those that don’t overcome will be blotted out… they never existed.
 

Jack

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I see what you are seeing…. But it is a idiom.
the 'torment for ever and ever' spoken of, for they will never ever be again, and the torment is them knowing prior to execution of judgment that they will forever be separated from God and denied eternal life in Heaven.

Revelation 21
and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
That part is ONLY for those in God's Kingdom.
Yet… you say pain will still exist throughout eternity. Those that don’t overcome will be blotted out… they never existed.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

"Everlasting", exact same Greek Word. NEVER ending. Do you believe "everlasting life" will end?
 

Truthnightmare

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That part is ONLY for those in God's Kingdom.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

"Everlasting", exact same Greek Word. NEVER ending. Do you believe "everlasting life" will end?
Boy you’re something else…

What is the punishment? The ultimate punishment Is being blotted out. You will never be again, forever, you will never exist, never be thought of never be remembered… you were never. And that will never end.

Likewise, those who overcome will be forever, or as you said, everlasting.

You can’t have it both ways friend… does God destroy all evil, of does he leave it around?
 

Jack

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Boy you’re something else…

What is the punishment? The ultimate punishment Is being blotted out. You will never be again, forever, you will never exist, never be thought of never be remembered… you were never. And that will never end.

Likewise, those who overcome will be forever, or as you said, everlasting.

You can’t have it both ways friend… does God destroy all evil, of does he leave it around?
Boy you’re something else…

What is the punishment? The ultimate punishment Is being blotted out. You will never be again, forever, you will never exist, never be thought of never be remembered… you were never. And that will never end.

Likewise, those who overcome will be forever, or as you said, everlasting.

You can’t have it both ways friend… does God destroy all evil, of does he leave it around?
Exact same Greek Word, NEVER ending.
 

Truthnightmare

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Exact same Greek Word, NEVER ending.
Does Satan get tormented forever?

Mind you…

All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

How can you torment nothing?
 
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