Did Jesus raise hiself from the dead or did God yhe father raise him

[Fred J]

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

ONLY Jesus / Jehovah / God are called "Mighty God" in the Bible. NOBODY else! They are the same. Even the JW bible says so.

Your JW propaganda appreciated though, so the Truth can be shown that Jesus is God and Hell fire is "forever and ever"!

Am no JW nor denominational, but the church of Christ by Sola Scriptural.

Scripture is clear from misconception, that Jesus indeed is the firstborn of or over all creation. However you read it from any version to the context of the All Scripture = Holy Bible, Jesus is created, the firstborn of or over all creation.

In the Scripture the FATHER refers to HIS Son as HIS only begotten. Therefore, the only begotten from the FATHER, created by the FATHER HIMSELF. Even before all other creation in Heaven and on earth, which apparently then was created by the Son with the FATHER.

John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, ...................

The Word came into being in the beginning when there was nothing, compared to the FATHER who have no beginning nor end. Basically, like the globe, it was quiet and empty until came it's beginning of creation.

 

[Jack]

Am no JW

That's a plus.

nor denominational, but the church of Christ by Sola Scriptural.

Scripture is clear from misconception, that Jesus indeed is the firstborn of or over all creation. However you read it from any version to the context of the All Scripture = Holy Bible, Jesus is created, the firstborn of or over all creation.

Do you know that ONLY Jesus / God are called "Mighty God" in the Bible? They are the same.

In the Scripture the FATHER refers to HIS Son as HIS only begotten. Therefore, the only begotten from the FATHER, created by the FATHER HIMSELF.

Now you're flat out making stuff up!

Even before all other creation in Heaven and on earth, which apparently then was created by the Son with the FATHER.

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created.

He is God!

John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, ...................

The Word came into being in the beginning when there was nothing,

Again, you're making that up!

compared to the FATHER who have no beginning nor end. Basically, like the globe, it was quiet and empty until came it's beginning of creation.

Thomas was taught by Jesus personally. He said Jesus is God! Jesus agreed! Who are you to declare Jesus and Thomas wrong?

 

[Fred J]

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

Amen Thomas!

i don't mean to burst your bubbles, that one or two or more quote cannot debunk the context that Jesus is God the Junior subjected to GOD the SENIOR and have His limitation in obedience.

He can't even decide nor know which of His disciple will be on His right or left in Heaven, for only the FATHER decide and know.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No

“No” to what? “......If Jesus is the Father, then he had “sons”, not “brothers”
Is it a “no” to that?

Or is it that you don’t know about the original “Immanuel”?...Isaiah’s Son.

I need specifics....or I cannot respond...

 

[Jack]

i don't mean to burst your bubbles, that one or two or more quote cannot debunk the context that Jesus is God the Junior subjected to GOD the SENIOR and have His limitation in obedience.

He can't even decide nor know which of His disciple will be on His right or left in Heaven, for only the FATHER decide and know.

Jesus agreed with Thomas! Who are you to say Jesus and Thomas were wrong??? Are you sure you're not JW? Ex JW?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Am no JW nor denominational, but the church of Christ by Sola Scriptural.

Take no notice of Jack...he thinks everyone who disagrees with what he believes is a JW....

 

[Jack]

“No” to what? “......If Jesus is the Father, then he had “sons”, not “brothers”
Is it a “no” to that?

Or is it that you don’t know about the original “Immanuel”?...Isaiah’s Son.

I need specifics....or I cannot respond...

JW's don't even believe their own bible!

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

 

[Jack]

Take no notice of Jack...he thinks everyone who disagrees with what he believes is a JW....

That's a LIE! Do JW's even know what will happen to "all liars"?

Jesus is God and Hell fire is "forever and ever", the JW NWT says so!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Not true. Though I know there's no chance of correcting an errant denominational teaching.

I guess there is no correcting you either then.....what “errant denominational teaching” have you adopted?
Do you know if what you believe is true? Who told you it was?

We are all entitled to our viewpoint....some of us are going to be dead wrong in what we have been persuaded to believe....so it’s not WHAT you believe...it’s WHO You believe that makes the difference. Not too many have their very own religion. (though some here actually do)

Jesus will let us all know, (soon I believe) because we will all stand before the same judge....until then he is separating the ‘sheep from the goats’ as we speak......by what we accept in our hearts as truth, we are telling Jesus who we are, and whether we support the truth of God’s word....or someone else’s version of it.

Remember that Jesus said “you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free”....what we are set free from, is the sham of Christendom’s divided churches with her conflicting doctrines and practices adopted from false religion. If you have not identified the ones who teach false doctrines, and separated yourself from those teachings that originated in ancient Babylon, then you are stuck in “Babylon the great”.....God has told us to “get out of her my people if you do not want to share in her sins and receive part of her plagues, for her sins have massed way u to heaven......” (Rev 18:4-5) How did God’s “people” get into Babylon the great in the first place?

Think back to what happened when God’s people were taken captive to original Babylon.....God had the Babylonians conquer Israel’s homeland and take them away to a foreign land, rife with false worship......it was a punishment for their disobedience, and they remained there for 70 years. Only a remnant of faithful ones returned home when God set Israel free under King Cyrus, who was used by God to conquer mighty Babylon.

Another Babylon will be conquered in the near future....we have to make sure that we are not part of that unfaithful harlot....or we will go down with her...

 

[Jack]

Do all JW's have difficulty quoting the Bible? Maybe Kingdom Hall won't allow JW's to quote Scripture?

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

That is not what I said.....my point was that Jesus is not the Father......he had “brothers” not “sons”.

please read my original post to Gabriel Arch again.

Jesus was the Father. Which is why the name Immanuel is in the New Testament and means, God with us.

Immanuel,had siblings being he was born of woman,Mary. He did not have sons because he did not procreate.

He was a son twice over though. The son of man and the son of God. "Sired" by God in that God, The Father, manifest himself ,begat himself, upon Mary. As prophecy foretold.

Immanuel was The Father,God. Traditions may deny that however God knows they're wrong.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

You are wrong, it is Scriptural in Colossians 1:15, for the error is in your part. And, i may find it difficult to beat because i too perceive the denomination you represent., sorry

No, Colossians 1:15 reiterates my point.
“Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation."

The Old Testament tells us God is. Spirit. A Holy Spirit.
Immanuel, God with us, is the visible Holy Spirit.

Are you one of the elect? According to JW teachings.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

“No” to what? “......If Jesus is the Father, then he had “sons”, not “brothers”
Is it a “no” to that?

Or is it that you don’t know about the original “Immanuel”?...Isaiah’s Son.

I need specifics....or I cannot respond...

My, No, was in response to the first part of your post and directly to that last question there. Pasted here:
"You said Jesus was the Father….if he was the Father then he did not have “brothers”….he had “sons”….No?"

As the first of your remarks are in error I saw no reason to reply to the rest of that post.

 

[Jack]

AJ is just another lost Kingdom Hall puppet.

 

[Fred J]

Do you know that ONLY Jesus / God are called "Mighty God" in the Bible? They are the same.

Yes, Isaiah 9:6

Do you know as well, that GOD the FATHER in the Holy Bible is referred to as the AL-MIGHTY and AL-MOST HIGH GOD, compared to the Son, Mighty God?

Now you're flat out making stuff up!

It's your say against mine, since you don't perceive the term, firstborn, only begotten and in the beginning used in regards the Son in the Holy Bible

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created.

You seem to be making up your own denominational stuffs by even misquoting Scripture. The Scripture quote is, For by Him................... - all things were created through Him and for Him. The insight to the context of the Scripture indicate, For GOD the FATHER, by, and through, and for the Son created all things in Heaven and on earth.

He is God!

He is Mighty God the Son subjected to AL-MIGHTY and AL-MOST HIGH GOD the FATHER

Again, you're making that up!

Is there any verse go by, In the beginning was the God? Clearly, the Word had a beginning, the firstborn of or over all creation. But you want to remain blind even to the term, 'firstborn', so be it.

Thomas was taught by Jesus personally. He said Jesus is God! Jesus agreed! Who are you to declare Jesus and Thomas wrong?

Again and final, Jesus is God the Son subjected to GOD the FATHER. Do you now in Hebrews chapter 1, GOD the FATHER address the Son as, God and Lord?

 

[Fred J]

Jesus agreed with Thomas! Who are you to say Jesus and Thomas were wrong??? Are you sure you're not JW? Ex JW?

There's something definitely wrong with you, by going on with the same thing, which i know not mentioning.

 

[Jack]

Yes, Isaiah 9:6

Yeah, Jesus is God the Creator!

Do you know as well, that GOD the FATHER in the Holy Bible is referred to as the AL-MIGHTY and AL-MOST HIGH GOD, compared to the Son, Mighty God?

Are you sure you're not JW?

It's your say against mine, since you don't perceive the term, firstborn, only begotten and in the beginning used in regards the Son in the Holy Bible

JW irony?

You seem to be making up your own denominational stuffs by even misquoting Scripture. The Scripture quote is, For by Him................... - all things were created through Him and for Him. The insight to the context of the Scripture indicate, For GOD the FATHER, by, and through, and for the Son created all things in Heaven and on earth.

That's what I said. Jesus is God the Creator.

He is Mighty God the Son subjected to AL-MIGHTY and AL-MOST HIGH GOD the FATHER

Amen, Jesus is the Mighty God of the Bible!

Is there any verse go by, In the beginning was the God? Clearly, the Word had a beginning, the firstborn of or over all creation. But you want to remain blind even to the term, 'firstborn', so be it.

Bingo!

Again and final, Jesus is God the Son subjected to GOD the FATHER. Do you now in Hebrews chapter 1, GOD the FATHER address the Son as, God and Lord?

Bingo again!!!

 

[Jack]

There's something definitely wrong with you, by going on with the same thing, which i know not mentioning.

No Scripture, just personal insults?

 

[Aunty Jane]

No, Colossians 1:15 reiterates my point.
“Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation."

Um....no, that is an incorrect translation.

Almost all English translations render that verse....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.”

Backed up by Jesus himself in Revelation 3:14...
“...These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God”...

Only trinitarians will force those verses to say something else.

According to Strongs, “firstborn” (prōtotokos) means ....

1. “the firstborn
   1. of man or beast
   2. of Christ, the first born of all creation.”

Used in other verses it still says “firstborn”.....why try to make it say what it clearly does not?

The Old Testament tells us God is. Spirit. A Holy Spirit.
Immanuel, God with us, is the visible Holy Spirit.

“God is a spirit”...John tells us that. (John 4:24) That means that God has no visible form....he dwells in an invisible realm which is called “heaven” in the Bible, and it is populated with many “sons of God”.
The pre-human Jesus was the “firstborn” of many “sons”. Adam was also called a “son of God” because the was created, not born. All the “sons of God” were created.

Are you one of the elect? According to JW teachings.

FJ is new here and he has already said that he is not a JW.....
Jack assumes that everyone who doesn’t accept the trinity must be a JW, but there are a few others here who reject it as unscriptural. He is just a bit fixated about JW’s for some reason.

 

[Jack]

Um....no, that is an incorrect translation.

Almost all English translations render that verse....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.”

Backed up by Jesus himself in Revelation 3:14...
“...These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God”...

Only trinitarians will force those verses to say something else.

According to Strongs, “firstborn” (prōtotokos) means ....

1. “the firstborn
   1. of man or beast
   2. of Christ, the first born of all creation.”

Used in other verses it still says “firstborn”.....why try to make it say what it clearly does not?

“God is a spirit”...John tells us that. (John 4:24) That means that God has no visible form....he dwells in an invisible realm which is called “heaven” in the Bible, and it is populated with many “sons of God”.
The pre-human Jesus was the “firstborn” of many “sons”. Adam was also called a “son of God” because the was created, not born. All the “sons of God” were created.


FJ is new here and he has already said that he is not a JW.....
Jack assumes that everyone who doesn’t accept the trinity must be a JW, but there are a few others here who reject it as unscriptural. He is just a bit fixated about JW’s for some reason.

Even the JW bible calls Jesus "Mighty God" and "the first and the last"! ONLY God / Jesus / Jehovah are called those! They are the same!

Even the JW bible says "Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God""!

You should read your JW bible some time.