Did Jesus raise hiself from the dead or did God yhe father raise him

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Gabriel _Arch

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Ambiguity and assumption again.....Jesus is not the Creator, his Father is. The Father used his son to create all things....it is called agency.....he was by his Father’s side in creation...his “master workman” (Proverbs 8:30-31)
He is the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.

Col 1 :15-17 says that all things were brought into existence by the one who was “the firstborn of all creation”...and all things were “created for him” so how does that fit what you believe?

Ambiguity and assumption,again?

Goodness, I would think God would be very up front and clear about his identity as Mighty God, Savior of the world.

Let's see if we can clear some stuff up. Since the meaning of Immanuel , God with us, would appear ambiguous and assuming,shall we?

Okay,here goes.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6

Oh,look,there's more.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (14)And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 20:26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Exodus 3:14 (ESV)​

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “I have been with you such a long time, and have you not known Me, Philip? Whoever has seen Me, has seen the Father.

 

Fred J

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Ambiguity and assumption,again?

Goodness, I would think God would be very up front and clear about his identity as Mighty God, Savior of the world.

Let's see if we can clear some stuff up. Since the meaning of Immanuel , God with us, would appear ambiguous and assuming,shall we?

Okay,here goes.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6

Oh,look,there's more.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (14)And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 20:26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Exodus 3:14 (ESV)​

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “I have been with you such a long time, and have you not known Me, Philip? Whoever has seen Me, has seen the Father.
Let me understand your denomination faith, Jesus is the Mighty God?

So in other words, Jesus is the FATHER, and Jesus is the Son, and Jesus is the Holy Spirit?
 

TheHC

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Is the Bible contradicting for who raised Jesus.
John 10.18 says he did but what do you think
Jesus raised Himself in the same way the woman with a blood flow healed herself.

Remember what Jesus said? Jesus told her, “Your faith has made you well.” - Luke 8:43-48

What if she hadn’t had faith? She wouldn’t have been healed. So in a sense, she healed herself. Of course, God healed her through Jesus, but her faith was what allowed it to happen.

Same with Jesus: He had faith that God would resurrect Him, so in that same sense, He resurrected himself.
 
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TheHC

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"No scripture says Jesus is the Father...", is untrue
You think that’s really what was literally meant?

What about Acts 9:2-5 then? It was Jesus’ disciples that Saul had been persecuting. Jesus told Saul, “why are you persecuting me?” He again said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”


So, take it literally, and Jesus is his disciples now.

(Wow, the Godhead is getting sort of crowded!)
 

Gabriel _Arch

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You think that’s really what was literally meant?

What about Acts 9:2-5 then? It was Jesus’ disciples that Saul had been persecuting. Jesus told Saul, “why are you persecuting me?” He again said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”


So, take it literally, and Jesus is his disciples now.

(Wow, the Godhead is getting sort of crowded!)
John 15
Abide in me, and I in you.
 

Fred J

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What did Immanuel say?
Immanuel said, "Our FATHER who art in Heaven. Hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done here on earth, as it is in Heaven. ..........

So, when God was with us the Israelite on that day of visitation, who was He praying to, Himself?
 
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Jack

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Immanuel said, "Our FATHER who art in Heaven. Hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done here on earth, as it is in Heaven. ..........

So, when God was with us the Israelite on that day of visitation, who was He praying to, Himself?
You already admitted that Jesus is God the Creator.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Ambiguity and assumption,again?

Goodness, I would think God would be very up front and clear about his identity as Mighty God, Savior of the world.

Let's see if we can clear some stuff up. Since the meaning of Immanuel , God with us, would appear ambiguous and assuming,shall we?

Okay,here goes.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6

Oh,look,there's more.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (14)And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 20:26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Exodus 3:14 (ESV)​

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “I have been with you such a long time, and have you not known Me, Philip? Whoever has seen Me, has seen the Father.
Would you like me to take these one at a time?......I have made so many replies to these very ‘cherry picked’ scriptures.....which shows that the person claiming that they support a three headed god, has not studied the Bible but relies on flawed human theology......big difference.
I am a researcher.....are you?

Isaiah 9:6-7...is a prophesy about the coming Messiah, who was to be the king of God’s kingdom.....this is the “government“ that will be “on his shoulders”, so can you tell me what God’s Kingdom is? If it is a government, does Jesus rule alone? If not, then who are it’s rulers, and who are it’s subjects? What is the purpose of the Kingdom?

Was Jesus a wonderful counselor? There were none finer. His teachings are recorded In the Christian scriptures....so, down to this day we can benefit from his fine counsel....

The Hebrew rendering of that verse shows that Messiah was not going to be “Almighty God” (el Shaddái) but “el gibbór,” (“Mighty God”), showing the “el” means more than just Jehovah.

According to Strongs, “el” means...
  1. “god, god-like one, mighty one
    1. mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
    2. angels
    3. god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
    4. God, the one true God, Jehovah
  2. mighty things in nature
  3. strength, power”.

Very similarly the Greek “theos” also means the same thing. Just because someone is called a “god” doesn’t make them Jehovah. Even satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4.
So, calling “the Word” “theos” (god) in John 1:1 doesn’t make him Jehovah either.
Thomas calling Jesus “theos” likewise.....you should do some thorough research.....the truth is there if you want to see it.

What about “Eternal Father”....Jesus himself said...”call no man your Father on earth, for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven.” (Matt 23:9) The Father was in heaven when Jesus was on earth.

So in what way is Jesus a “Father”....figuratively, he is the ‘life giver’ to all who accept him as Messiah, and who worship the same God as he does. (John 17:3)

Prince of Peace?.....What is a Prince, but the son of a King....his rulership will be a peaceful one.

So nothing in that passage says what you have been led to believe it does.

What about Jesus calling himself “I Am”.....shock, horror! He didn’t do that either.
Have you looked up Exodus 3:14-15 in a Jewish word for word translation?
God never said “I Am” was the meaning of his name.....

Exodus 3:13-15..Jewish Tanakh...

13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God (יְהֹוָ֞ה) of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

The “Lord God” is Jehovah (יְהֹוָ֞ה)

John 10:30? See John 17:22....
“I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.”
Are Jesus and his disciples part of this one God too?

“Whoever has seen me has seen the Father”......
See John 1:18.....
No man has seen God at any time”.....how many people saw Jesus?
He was a reflection of his Father’s personality....like him in every way. If you saw Jesus you would see exactly what his Father is like....

You see.....none of those scriptures say what you think they do. If you did research, you would know that.
All resource material is online, so no one has an excuse for ignorance any more.
Do your own homework....don’t rely on other people’s.
 

Jack

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JW's don't even know that their own JW bible proves that Jesus is God and Hell fire is "forever and ever"!
 
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Fred J

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Jesus raised Himself in the same way the woman with a blood flow healed herself.

Remember what Jesus said? Jesus told her, “Your faith has made you well.” - Luke 8:43-48

What if she hadn’t had faith? She wouldn’t have been healed. So in a sense, she healed herself. Of course, God healed her through Jesus, but her faith was what allowed it to happen.

Same with Jesus: He had faith that God would resurrect Him, so in that same sense, He resurrected himself.
Apparently, your testimony is partly true, Jesus had to perform His role, in order by faith and performance the miracles and resurrection should take place.

But the invisible power that manifested to perform the miracles and that raised Jesus from the dead, came from the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11, justify this power at work in the Trinity, saying,

"If the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, HE who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through HIS Spirit who dwells in you."

Clearly, it is referring to the invisible Holy Spirit and Power whom dwell in believers. Whom dwell in Jesus first, and also raised Jesus from the dead.

As GOD the FATHER is Spirit and invisible, who art in Heaven and in secret always. Therefore, HE in the Trinity performed HIS role too from Heaven, while Jesus and the Holy Spirit were here on earth performed theirs'.
 
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Fred J

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You already admitted that Jesus is God the Creator.
So, your denomination believe, He was praying to Himself every time in the Gospel., And by the way, islam is close to your believe, as allah prays to himself.

One more thing, when Immanuel was baptize by John T. B. and during the transfiguration of Immanuel in the Gospel. Who's voice was it that spoke from Heaven, was it Immanuel on earth's voice that also came from up there?

If yes, than your Immanuel is the master of ventriloquist, who's able to throw his voice from Heaven in order to praise himself.
 
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Jack

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So, your denomination believe, He was praying to Himself every time in the Gospel., And by the way, islam is close to your believe, as allah prays to himself.

One more thing, when Immanuel was baptize by John T. B. and during the transfiguration of Immanuel in the Gospel. Who's voice was it that spoke from Heaven, was it Immanuel on earth's voice that also came from up there?

If yes, than your Immanuel is the master of ventriloquist, who's able to throw his voice from Heaven in order to praise himself.
You already admitted that Jesus is God the Creator. What can I say?
 

1stCenturyLady

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If you want to get on this one. The question is what are the three parts of God? I give the first 2 and you give the third. Ready?

1.) Spirit
2. ) Jesus
3.)
Father

Matthew 28:19

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

1 John 2:22-23
He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
 

Peterlag

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Father

Matthew 28:19

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

1 John 2:22-23
He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Father is not an acceptable answer as to what a life form is. You cannot say I'm a brother, cousin, and uncle and therefore there's 3 of me. Nor should you say I'm a man and a human and that makes 2 of me. These are just names and tiles. I only have 1 car. Not 2 because I call it a Mercedes and a Car.
 
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Gabriel _Arch

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Immanuel said, "Our FATHER who art in Heaven. Hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done here on earth, as it is in Heaven. ..........

So, when God was with us the Israelite on that day of visitation, who was He praying to, Himself?
Philippians 2
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 

Aunty Jane

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Philippians 2
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Gabriel.....again....analyse what the scripture is actually saying, rather than what you think it does.

If you understand the power of suggestion, then you will comprehend what it means to live in a world ruled by the devil. (1 John 5:19) Everything Christendom believes is by the power of suggestion in twisting the meaning of scripture....once you know the truth, you can see right through his successful attempts to get people to break the first and most important Commandment.....”You shall have no other gods but me”.

Who was this God of the Jews? He is the one identified in Deut 6:4....(the Shema)
From the Jewish Tanakh...

Jesus did not depart from the written word of his Father.

יְהֹוָ֥ה is, was, and always will be, the one God of Jesus Christ who in heaven, has a new name. (Rev 3:12)
So with that fact in mind, read Philippians 2:5-11 again....

“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped”

Notice that he was “in the form of God”......so, what “form” does God have? The scriptures tell us that “God is a spirit”...so Jesus was in ‘spirit form’ too, as are all who dwell in the spirit realm, unseen to human eyes.

When Paul was shipwrecked on the Island of Malta, with others who were also prisoners, they were taken care of by some friendly locals......on gathering some wood for a fire, he encountered a venomous snake which attached itself to his hand. The superstitious people knew that this snake was deadly and thought he would surely drop dead, but when he didn’t.....
“he shook the creature off into the fire and suffered no harm. 6 But they were expecting him to swell up or suddenly to drop dead. After they waited for a long time and saw that nothing bad happened to him, they changed their mind and began saying he was a god. (Acts 28:5-6...Read the whole story in Acts 27)

When Jesus performed miracles, people may have thought that he was “a god” (a divine mighty one) and might have been persuaded to worship him, (as Jews in the past had been persuaded to worship “gods” other than the true God Jehovah.) But Jesus was always careful not to give credit for his power to himself....he always used God’s powerful spirit to give glory to the one who provided it...not to himself. He never wanted to give the impression that he was equal in any way to his superior Father.

“7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.”
How did he “empty himself”? Being a glorious spirit being, he willingly left his lofty position as second only to his Father, to become a mere mortal, so as to rescue Adam’s children, trapped in sin and resulting in death and a host of horrible outcomes, through no fault of their own. Christ willingly sacrificed so much to rescue us.
But ask yourself, “can God become his own servant?” (Acts 4:27)

“8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”
If Jesus humbled himself by “becoming obedient as far as death”...to suffer such a painful death....to whom was he obedient? Himself? Or to someone who was his superior?

“9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name”
How does God highly exalt himself? How does he give Jesus a name that is above every name when (if he is the Father) he already has the highest name in existence? (Psalm 83:18)

“10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Jesus is our saviour and redeemer and we rightly bow in obeisance to honor him, but worship belongs only to the Father, (Luke 4:5-8) who tolerates the worship of no other “gods”. Christendom has three, yet only one is mentioned in scripture by Jesus and his apostles. (1 Cor 8:5-6) As Jews, they had only one God.

Whatever Jesus did, he did for the glory of his Father, who is also his God...he never did a thing for his own personal glory.

So again, research reveals another passage of scripture that has been altered by suggestion and accepted on a cursory reading.

Do your homework.....the truth is there, but you will not find it in the theological mess that is Christendom.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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Father is not an acceptable answer as to what a life form is. You cannot say I'm a brother, cousin, and uncle and therefore there's 3 of me. Nor should you say I'm a man and a human and that makes 2 of me. These are just names and tiles. I only have 1 car. Not 2 because I call it a Mercedes and a Car.
Scripturaly it is. I was wondering why you were trying to bait me to say the Father as that is what is written. And we live by every word that proceeds from the Father. I'm surprised you don't believe in the Father as one part of the Trinity that makes God one whole being, not three persons. Both the Father and the Spirit are invisible, but are separate parts of Christ as I've shown you in 1 Thess. 5:23. I'll explain further.

We are spirit, soul and body because God is also and they created us in Their image. One person. One God.

God is:
Spirit/Mind/Father - Romans 7:25; Galatians 5:17(small 's'); 1 Cor. 2:16. Jesus has the mind of the Father, just as the born again have the mind of Christ.
Holy Spirit/Soul/heart and conscience
Jesus embodies the Godhead, so Jesus is the Body of God. Colossians 2:9