Did Jesus raise hiself from the dead or did God yhe father raise him

[Aunty Jane]

My, No, was in response to the first part of your post and directly to that last question there. Pasted here:
"You said Jesus was the Father….if he was the Father then he did not have “brothers”….he had “sons”….No?"

As the first of your remarks are in error I saw no reason to reply to the rest of that post.

No scripture says Jesus is the Father.....how can a Father be his own son? Or a son be his own Father?
It is God who calls Jesus his son...are you arguing with him?

Isaiah’s prophesy certainly applies to the son of God, but Gabriel told Mary that her son’s name would be Jesus, not Immanuel.....it is true that God was certainly “with” the disciples of Christ Jesus.

 

[Jack]

No scripture says Jesus is the Father.....

You don't even know what your JW bible says!

John 14 Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.

how can a Father be his own son? Or a son be his own Father?
It is God who calls Jesus his son...are you arguing with him?

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

How long since you read the NWT? Never maybe?

Isaiah’s prophesy certainly applies to the son of God, but Gabriel told Mary that her son’s name would be Jesus, not Immanuel.....it is true that God was certainly “with” the disciples of Christ Jesus.

And Isaiah called Jesus "Mighty God"!

 

[mailmandan]

God the Father raised Jesus from the dead. Romans 10:9 - that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Galatians 1:1 - Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead).

Jesus Christ raised Himself from the dead. John 2:19 - Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

John 10:17 - “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead. Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[Fred J]

Um....no, that is an incorrect translation.

Almost all English translations render that verse....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.”

Backed up by Jesus himself in Revelation 3:14...
“...These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God”...

Only trinitarians will force those verses to say something else.

According to Strongs, “firstborn” (prōtotokos) means ....

1. “the firstborn
   1. of man or beast
   2. of Christ, the first born of all creation.”

Used in other verses it still says “firstborn”.....why try to make it say what it clearly does not?

“God is a spirit”...John tells us that. (John 4:24) That means that God has no visible form....he dwells in an invisible realm which is called “heaven” in the Bible, and it is populated with many “sons of God”.
The pre-human Jesus was the “firstborn” of many “sons”. Adam was also called a “son of God” because the was created, not born. All the “sons of God” were created.


FJ is new here and he has already said that he is not a JW.....
Jack assumes that everyone who doesn’t accept the trinity must be a JW, but there are a few others here who reject it as unscriptural. He is just a bit fixated about JW’s for some reason.

i get it, J. goes on and on the same verse and some made up of his denominational stuff. Part of it is that they believe, if am not mistaken, GOD the FATHER and God the Son are the same person.

And since they use the quote, GOD is Spirit, meaning, is the Holy Spirit. Apparently, to them, God the FATHER, God the Son and Holy Spirit are one person.

If such a person twist words and things around, is best to avoid even having a conversation and get no where. J. throws all the insult on us and yet one manages to turn the table around on us.

Anyway, nice meeting you, peace be with you, and may GOD the FATHER of Lord Jesus Christ enrich HIS church with sound doctrine.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

No scripture says Jesus is the Father.....how can a Father be his own son? Or a son be his own Father?
It is God who calls Jesus his son...are you arguing with him?

Isaiah’s prophesy certainly applies to the son of God, but Gabriel told Mary that her son’s name would be Jesus, not Immanuel.....it is true that God was certainly “with” the disciples of Christ Jesus.

I won't debate scripture when you ignore that which proves your supposition incorrect.

"No scripture says Jesus is the Father...", is untrue

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Um....no, that is an incorrect translation.

Almost all English translations render that verse....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.”

Backed up by Jesus himself in Revelation 3:14...
“...These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God”...

Only trinitarians will force those verses to say something else.

According to Strongs, “firstborn” (prōtotokos) means ....

1. “the firstborn
   1. of man or beast
   2. of Christ, the first born of all creation.”

Used in other verses it still says “firstborn”.....why try to make it say what it clearly does not?

“God is a spirit”...John tells us that. (John 4:24) That means that God has no visible form....he dwells in an invisible realm which is called “heaven” in the Bible, and it is populated with many “sons of God”.
The pre-human Jesus was the “firstborn” of many “sons”. Adam was also called a “son of God” because the was created, not born. All the “sons of God” were created.


FJ is new here and he has already said that he is not a JW.....
Jack assumes that everyone who doesn’t accept the trinity must be a JW, but there are a few others here who reject it as unscriptural. He is just a bit fixated about JW’s for some reason.

Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Colossians 1

 

[Peterlag]

Apparently yes, if you were to put in direct context of the Scripture. But Jesus did say, He have the authority to lay down His life and lift it up again, even before fulfilling the mission. Therefore, it was His own effort to fulfill in the end, and according to GOD's righteousness indeed He will be resurrected without a question.

Jesus can say, I laied down My life for the sins of the world and raised it up again in fulfillment. Can any one say it is false, besides the FATHER and the Holy Spirit played the role in the resurrection?

Next, let's be realistic here, you say the word 'Father' is not a living being, since GOD is Spirit, fair enough. Now, how do you answer this in John 1:18, No one has ever seen GOD; the only God, who is at the FATHER's side, He has made HIM known.

GOD indeed is Spirit and an invisible living being who art in Heaven and in secret, and Jesus who have seen has made HIM known. In Heavenly term, they are Spirit beings, ranking from top to bottom, as similar on earth that are visible. The verse say, to what is in Heaven it's like a shadow here on earth.

Apparently, you debunk the Scripture by making your own point over it, to say, Father is a term we only use on parent here on earth. Therefore, Jesus saying, I and the FATHER are one, is false? How many times Jesus used the term, FATHER, in the Gospel, haven't you any clue?

Am merely perplexed my friend where are you heading with such a strange testimony, sorry. To add, you say GOD is Spirit and HE the Spirit resurrected Jesus, is false! GOD is Spirit but HE is not the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is another person in the Trinity.

If i were to distinguish to prove they are three different person, hence believe the Scripture it is the truth. Am not going to quote Scripture, for you should already know by now the Gospel, if you're a born again.

When John the Baptist baptized Jesus, three different person in the Trinity was present individually. Jesus came out of the water, the first person in the Trinity. Next, the Holy Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove, the second person in the Trinity. Finally, a voice spoke from Heaven who is GOD the FATHER who reside in heaven and in secret, the third person in the Trinity.

All of this took place at the same time, and there were witnesses to testify about it, and we are disciple to testify accordingly. Peace be with you all in the name of Lord Jesus Christ and be enrich in the Word.

What verse says Jesus said "...and raised it up again in fulfillment." Now let's talk more about this Father thing. I am a human. I'm not a son, uncle, cousin, and brother. Those are not what I am. So let's see if someone can tell me what God is. We can't say I'm made up of 2 because I'm a man and human. Same with saying God and Spirit. Can we say Father, God, and Spirit make 3 of Him. Does man, human, and flesh and blood make 3 of me.

1.) Spirit
2. Jesus
3.) What's the third

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Is the Bible contradicting for who raised Jesus.
John 10.18 says he did but what do you think

There are different scriptures that point to each of the three. They are One.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What verse says Jesus said "...and raised it up again in fulfillment." Now let's talk more about this Father thing. I am a human. I'm not a son, uncle, cousin, and brother. Those are not what I am. So let's see if someone can tell me what God is. We can't say I'm made up of 2 because I'm a man and human. Same with saying God and Spirit. Can we say Father, God, and Spirit make 3 of Him. Does man, human, and flesh and blood make 3 of me.

1.) Spirit
2. Jesus
3.) What's the third

The scriptures already tell us. Remember we are made in the image of God.

1 Thess. 5:23

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

The scriptures already tell us. Remember we are made in the image of God.

1 Thess. 5:23

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you want to get on this one. The question is what are the three parts of God? I give the first 2 and you give the third. Ready?

1.) Spirit
2. ) Jesus
3.)

 

[Aunty Jane]

My, No, was in response to the first part of your post and directly to that last question there. Pasted here:
"You said Jesus was the Father….if he was the Father then he did not have “brothers”….he had “sons”….No?"

As the first of your remarks are in error I saw no reason to reply to the rest of that post.

No scripture says Jesus is the Father.....how can a Father be his own son? Or a son be his own Father?
It is God who calls Jesus his son...are you arguing with him?
Who did Jesus pray to? Who did he teach his disciples to pray to?....“Our Father who art in heaven”...so the Father was in heaven when Jesus was on earth.....do you have two gods?......or three? How can they be in different places and speak to each other? Your god is very confused....if humans displayed this trait, they would be diagnosed with multiple personality disorder....a recognised mental illness.

It is also obvious that you have never heard of the story of the original “Immanuel”... it wasn’t Jesus.
Thought to be Isiah’s third son, the young woman who gave birth to him was Isaiah’s wife. There was a reason for using the Hebrew word ‘al·mahʹ (young woman) at Isaiah 7:14 instead of bethu·lahʹ (“virgin”). Her son was to be named Immanuel, meaning “God is with us.” God would go on to demonstrate that he really was “with” his faithful servants.

The prophesy had a wider fulfilment in Jesus as it was used in connection with him.....but the angel did not tell Mary to call him “Immanuel”....he said to call him “Jesus”. (Yeshua)..a very popular name at the time, as was the name, “Lazarus”.

 

[Fred J]

What verse says Jesus said "...and raised it up again in fulfillment." Now let's talk more about this Father thing. I am a human. I'm not a son, uncle, cousin, and brother. Those are not what I am. So let's see if someone can tell me what God is. We can't say I'm made up of 2 because I'm a man and human. Same with saying God and Spirit. Can we say Father, God, and Spirit make 3 of Him. Does man, human, and flesh and blood make 3 of me.

1.) Spirit
2. Jesus
3.) What's the third

John 10:17

In Heaven, GOD also go in the term called, FATHER, for Jesus came from there bringing us Grace and Truth. The Gospel that disciple us about GOD, Son, the Holy Spirit, the kingdom of GOD, and to what we can compare it to, here on earth.

In Heaven, GOD have sons, not daughters for they will be changed during ascension to the Heavenly spirit form, as sons not sure. Jesus said there will be no marriage like here on earth in Heaven. Believers in Christ, men and women will be transformed into that Heavenly spirit body form during ascension.

From then on spending eternal life with GOD, they will be like angels, worshiping GOD day and night. Next, man made in the image of GOD goes by 3 parts, body, soul and spirit. Therefore, when man sinned against the Word of GOD, the spirit side of the image of GOD in Him dies, and is left with body, soul and mind.

That's why Adam did not physically die, even though GOD said, he would surely die. Apparently, GOD's Son, Jesus, did mend the separation and relationship back. As every born again of water and the Holy Spirit, have been restored back to having, body, soul and spirit once again.

The Holy Bible write, GOD is Spirit, meaning referring to HIS invisible Heavenly form, and not relating to the Holy Spirit. In the Gospel, JESUS refers to the Holy Spirit as, He, the Helper and Comforter, apart from GOD who is addressed differently.

Now, in regards you, how come if you're born again, you do not see these in the Holy Bible, acknowledge and testify accordingly? To tell you the truth, you resemble Nicodemus who question the Lord about born again using a human understanding.

Only thing the Lord advices generally to ones like Nicodemus, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of GOD. Furthermore, unless one is born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of GOD.

Example, we can testify and testify the Holy Bible and quote thoroughly for one see and see. But on the other hand, if one is not born again accordingly mentioned, he will be not able to see nor enter the kingdom of GOD.

And humbly for the record, Jesus did not continue with Nicodemus teaching and explaining to him just about born again, pointless it seem. In one account Jesus said about the Jews, "They will see and see but unable to see, and they will hear and hear but unable to hear." For GOD in brief, have consigned the Jews to disobedience, since have blinded their eyes and blocked their ears.

Now in another, generally to the world, Jesus says, "The god of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers." Apparently, the god of this world He is referring to, is the devil, the god of unrepented sinners.

 

[Peterlag]

John 10:17

In Heaven, GOD also go in the term called, FATHER, for Jesus came from there bringing us Grace and Truth. The Gospel that disciple us about GOD, Son, the Holy Spirit, the kingdom of GOD, and to what we can compare it to, here on earth.

In Heaven, GOD have sons, not daughters for they will be changed during ascension to the Heavenly spirit form as sons. Jesus said there will be no marriage like here on earth in Heaven. Believers in Christ, men and women will be transformed into that Heavenly spirit body form during ascension.

From then on spending eternal life with GOD, they will be like angels, worshiping GOD day and night. Next, man made in the image of GOD goes by 3 parts, body, soul and spirit. Therefore, when man sinned against the Word of GOD, the spirit side of the image of GOD in Him dies, and is left with body, soul and mind.

That's why Adam did not physically die, even though GOD said, he would surely die. Apparently, GOD's Son, Jesus, did mend the separation and relationship back. As every born again of water and the Holy Spirit, have been restored back to having, body, soul and spirit once again.

The Holy Bible write, GOD is Spirit, meaning referring to HIS invisible Heavenly form, and not relating to the Holy Spirit. In the Gospel, JESUS refers to the Holy Spirit as, He, the Helper and Comforter, apart from GOD who is addressed differently.

Now, in regards you, how come if you're born again, you do not see these in the Holy Bible, acknowledge and testify accordingly? To tell you the truth, you resemble Nicodemus who question the Lord about born again using a human understanding.

Only thing the Lord advices generally ones like Nicodemus, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of GOD. Furthermore, unless one is born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of GOD.

Example, we can testify and testify the Holy Bible and quote thoroughly for one see and see. But on the other hand, if one is not born again accordingly mentioned, he will be not able to see nor enter the kingdom of GOD.

And humbly for the record, Jesus did not continue with Nicodemus teaching and explaining to him just about born again, pointless it seem. In one account Jesus said about the Jews, "They will see and see but unable to see, and they will hear and hear but unable to hear." For GOD in brief, have consigned the Jews to disobedience, since have blinded their eyes and blocked their ears.

Now in another, generally to the world, Jesus says, "The god of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers." Apparently, the god of this world He is referring to, is the devil, the god of unrepented sinners.

I will take this as you don't know what the third is.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I won't debate scripture when you ignore that which proves your supposition incorrect.

"No scripture says Jesus is the Father...", is untrue

And here I thought was someone who loves the Bible....but not when it disagrees with an accepted belief....

There is a difference between “won’t” and “can’t”.
What have I ignored that proves my beliefs are incorrect....please tell me.

I will say it again.....NO scripture says that Jesus is the Father.....if you can provide a clear unequivocal statement, then perhaps we can discuss it.....but no ambiguous verses that make suggestions that other scripture contradicts.......the truth can be confronting when we thought we knew what it was.....that is the difference between studying the Bible and studying theology....one of them is correct and the other is a complete departure from the truth that the Bible teaches.

So we have choices and if what we choose to believe is not the truth, then God will not invite us into his kingdom, because we don’t love the truth when we hear it (2 Thess 2:9-12) and God will not correct us because we have free will....like the Jews of Jesus day, the truth doesn’t touch the heart.....it just makes people angry, like Jack. Who has no idea what the Bible teaches, but accepts what Christendom dishes up along with an outdated version of the Bible that most English speakers find hard to understand.
Ignorance is a terrible thing...it will cost people their lives.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Colossians 1

Ambiguity and assumption again.....Jesus is not the Creator, his Father is. The Father used his son to create all things....it is called agency.....he was by his Father’s side in creation...his “master workman” (Proverbs 8:30-31)
He is the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.

Col 1 :15-17 says that all things were brought into existence by the one who was “the firstborn of all creation”...and all things were “created for him” so how does that fit what you believe?

 

[Fred J]

I will take this as you don't know what the third is.

Is this a bait? Even if i know and answer in regards the third person, what's the point if you're not born again.

 

[Fred J]

Ambiguity and assumption again.....Jesus is not the Creator, his Father is. The Father used his son to create all things....it is called agency.....he was by his Father’s side in creation...his “master workman” (Proverbs 8:30-31)

Sorry Jane, this part is not entirely true, Jesus is the creator, while the FATHER is the Overseer. In Colossians, it does say, GOD, by, and through, and for the Son created all other things in Heaven and on earth.

But in Hebrews 1:10, GOD the FATHER HIMSELF proclaims to the Son, saying, "You Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the Heavens are the work of your hands;"

 

[Jack]

Sorry Jane, this part is not entirely true, Jesus is the creator, while the FATHER is the Overseer. In Colossians, it does say, GOD, by, and through, and for the Son created all other things in Heaven and on earth.

But in Hebrews 1:10, GOD the FATHER HIMSELF proclaims to the Son, saying, "You Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the Heavens are the work of your hands;"

I think you need to start over from the Beginning.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[Fred J]

Ambiguity and assumption again.....Jesus is not the Creator, his Father is. The Father used his son to create all things....it is called agency.....he was by his Father’s side in creation...his “master workman” (Proverbs 8:30-31)
He is the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.

Col 1 :15-17 says that all things were brought into existence by the one who was “the firstborn of all creation”...and all things were “created for him” so how does that fit what you believe?

Understandably, going back and forth with someone of another denominational faith, causes us to lose focus at times.

 

[Fred J]

Have we finalize the actual topic in the thread, who raised Jesus from the dead, Himself, the FATHER, or the Holy Spirit?