There's that, and there is the way some read the Bible that allows this kind of interpretation. If you don't think it means just what it says, then it means whatever you think it means, not necessarily what it says.
Much love!
Did Jesus remove all the sin from the world?
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Much love!
I think my question is more relevant
Everyone should note that God says He makes His new covenant with Israel and Judah, not gentiles.
This is NOT a problem as it proves believing gentiles are become the Israel of God according to the Spirit, and not after the flesh.
In other words, the church is the true Israel of God after the Spirit baptizes people into Christ's church, they have been joined to the commonwealth of Israel, read Ephesians 2.
So yes, the Book of Hebrews APPLIES to gentile believers too.
That's an interesting question. I know the Bible specifically says the New Covenant is with the "house of Israel", and the "house of Judah". Is there a place that specifically says God will make a new covenant with the Gentiles? I can't seem to think of a place.
Is there?
Much love!
i dont condemn osas id ont like it when a person complete gets away.. goes back to the ways of the world.. with no fruit of repentance... one thing i am glad i am not their judge and they are not mine.. our salvation is secure kept by the power of GOD
Jesus takes away the sin of the world?
Why then does anyone die in their sins? Such as the unbelieving?
I think someone is changing the meaning of this.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 7:5
For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
Who has been delivered from sin? Only those the Son makes free, there are still slaves of sin and they perish in their sins.
John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Has the Son made everyone free from sin?
What about sinners? Are they not slaves of sin?
Why then does anyone die in their sins? Such as the unbelieving?
I think someone is changing the meaning of this.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 7:5
For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
Who has been delivered from sin? Only those the Son makes free, there are still slaves of sin and they perish in their sins.
John 8:34-36
New King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Has the Son made everyone free from sin?
What about sinners? Are they not slaves of sin?
I don't believe that's true.
In Romans 9-11, a key passage discussing the Jews and Gentiles, Paul maintains that distinction throughout the passage, included both saved Jews and saved Gentiles.
According to this passage, Israel is not all of Abraham's children, but only from the child of promise, Isaac. And not all of Isaac's children, but only the child God chose, Jacob. And not all of Jacob's children, but only the believing, and this is the "Israel of God". There remains Israel according to the flesh, whom God promised to save at the end of the age, those who remain alive after the persecution by the beast, the time of great tribulation.
Gentiles, meanwhile, are identified as the spiritual children of Abraham - not Jacob/Israel.
Jews are called the natural branches, and Gentiles the wild branches, even as both are grafted onto the same tree, Abraham. We are the children of Abraham spiritually, being grafted in, while they are the children of Abraham naturally.
Much love!
Okay, thank you for not answering my question.
Founded in the audience whom was written to by Paul;
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
When it comes to the new covenant, it's for those of true Israel, did you know Jesus is seen as Israel?
He was the one whom represented them as a whole.
No, there is not.
To me, this proves the believing church is of the true Israel of God and of the commonwealth of Israel according to the Spirit.
Look at Ephesians 2
Paul speaks to that right here
Brought Near by His Blood
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.Christ Our Peace
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.Christ Our Cornerstone
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
He has taken care of sin. People chide people for going to watch porn, or they watch a rated R movie, or they smoke a cigarette, or they do drugs.
As sin.
When those sins have been taken care of, the one sin that remains is the sin of unbelief and that comes from a willingly heart to not have nothing to do with God.
There are people who walk around and show themselves as perfect and flawless, are they truly perfect and flawless as Jesus was and his lived life?
Nope. There are people whom believe on the sanctified and lived life of Yeshua, and it was because him of they get to God.
There are still those whom reject willingly from the heart because they so choose to and everyone can see evidences of Gods existence.
There is much we learn from this, and some certainly has a general application, but I'm sure you'll agree that a great portion has direct application to the Jews, such as when it is comparing the Levitical worship and sacrifices to Jesus' sacrifice.
I think we need to consider to whom a book is written as an important part of the context of that book.
Much love!
The principles and doctrines of God are there.
On the Gospels, much of it was dealing with Jews too and hardly anything to do with gentiles.
Yet us believing gentiles apply it for our faith and practice.
And in this saying, there is harmony with the other saying, In Christ is neither Greek nor Jew.
Ephesians 2 does not directly address the point, whether or not Gentiles become Jews or not. This passage is more about the fact that while Gentiles had no opportunity to be in the covenant in times past, now, in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles can be baptized into Christ, making us neither Greek nor Jew, but the body of Christ.
On the other hand, Romans 9-11 addresses this question directly in showing a continued distinction between Jews and Gentiles, such as the "natural" and the "wild" branches, and that it's the remnant of Israel who will be saved, when the fulness of the Gentiles is come in. And there are a number of places like that where this distinction is maintained.
Reassigning the national identity of Jacob's descendents to a mixed group of Jews and Gentiles creates a great many inconsistencies that force one to somehow find an interpretation that resolves the conflict, but that is only done at the expense of the plain teachings of the texts.
To me this is the real divide between these two interpretations, that the ones will read the text for it's plain saying, while the others believe that the words written are meant to express other ideas than what the words themselves say.
Much love!
Agreed, as according to context. Some is directly to us, some is directly to others, and some is given generally. And while not all the Bible is written to us (only a very small part is), we certainly learn from all of it.
Much love!
The believing gentiles are joined into the 'commonwealth of Israel' as are the believing jews. unbelieving jews, unbelieving gentiles are not of God, they have no inheritance in the kingdom of God.
And like you said there are not 2 people of God as there is neither jew or gentile for those who are joined to the Lord are of one spirit with Him.
Don't promote the flesh, have you studied John 8 and what Jesus told the unbelieving Jews?
Jesus called them liars.
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”
39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For all believers this here, jew or gentile, the Jerusalem which is above is our mother
Paul writes this to a gentile church
Galatians 4
Two Covenants
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are [g]the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
a crying shame is
watching more and more of the church
go into inclusivity . Beleiving in fairty tales and talks of a sensual love .
You dont see me encouraging folks about interfaith finding common ground .
But i sure see many within christendom doing so .
Seems like this generation has a failure to communicate , a failure to beleive CHRIST .
OH , i know many say they believe in HIM
but there sure dont beleive in All of His words .
Anyone care to give a brother some help exposing that which is of anti christ
rather than following men who support it .
OH i know folks can run their lips and make claims all day they beleive in JESUS
but they darn sure dont seem to beleive
HIM . As they often holler at men like me
DONT JUDGE , dont judge , you dont know the muslims heart , or the atheist heart
or the buddist hear , or etc
BUT I DARN SURE KNOW THEIR FRUIT . and any who follows false religoins
DARN SURE DONT FOLLOW GOD or HIS CHRIST .
SO how they lovey do gonna save them . IT WONT . Time to mount up and walk the walk .
ALL them other religoins serve satan . SORRY IF that offends ya , BUT ITS TRUE .
JUST like i myself once did , just like WE ALL ONCE DID , sorry if that offends ya ,
JESUS SET US FREE from the power of satan and of darkness
The other religoins , THEY ARE OF THE DARKNESS . satan dont care if ya call him budda
or muhammed
SO LONG as ya DONT REPENT to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . SO how about some
start exposing the entire nar realm , the RCC , and scores of others
WHO DO THIS ABRAHAM anti christ peace accords .
I'm actually talking about something different. Please keep on topic. You don't have to make EVERY thread about your usual rant. OK? I want to keep on topic.
Much love!
Hiddenthings
Member
Absolutely not! That person becomes an enemy of Christ...which is why every Christian needs to forget what they think they know about him and seek the original Gospel.
pandaflower
Member
I believe as Jesus said. Those whom God knows are eternally secure in him. And of all he gave to Jesus as their savior,God,Jesus,will lose none.
Even if we stray,we are his. And he,as he told us in the lamb parable,will not leave us toive alone as strays. He will come,find us,and bring us back to the fold.
God knows. We live in this world still. We are to use God's wisdom to navigate our way. Though if we fall,he will not stop loving and holding us secure in his grace.
We will never become unsaved.
God said that.
I believe God. Not people who insist that's not true.
Yes, Jesus lost followers . Yet he knew what that was. Which is why he said,they went out from us because they were not one with us.
Those who are his stay. Even should we stray Jesus will bring us home.
Those who are not his stay gone.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
same one said
he who denies JESUS is the CHRIST is anti christ .
John had much to say .
They came out from us for they were NOT truly of us . Yep .
Any who does not beleive the testimony that GOD gave of the SON
is calling GOD a liar . As all other religoins do indeed call HIM a liar . Just keep that in mind .
Hiddenthings
Member
@amigo de christo, as you can see, @pandaflower holds to the traditional version of the Gospel, one that has gone through many revisions over the centuries as men have altered it.
It's not their fault that they believe what they've been taught, but it is their responsibility to seek out the truth: the pure Gospel of God, which is found in Scripture.
It's not their fault that they believe what they've been taught, but it is their responsibility to seek out the truth: the pure Gospel of God, which is found in Scripture.
