Divine Hiddenness

[Vince]

For those who are reading on who would echo this same sentiments as those listed in the original post...the proposal here is completely backwards.

It is God who responded in giving you life in the world, not the other way around. And if you responded to Him haeartedly, that is your doing, not His. If you did the same in school you would fail. If you did the same in a job interview no one would hire you. God has allotted you your whole life to see if you really want to pass on life eternal and just be satisfied with this short-lived organic existence. This is your second chance. Don't waste it looking a gift horse in the mouth. And to be clear, you are not a "Christian" if you only gave it a go for a time, just as you are not a skydiver because you paid your $250 and went for the ride, or a baker because you have your very own kitchen and you fired up the oven, etc.. It is a lifetime commitment. Life and death is the context. It's the answer to what life is all about.

God has manifests the entire physical world to demonstrate your choice of life or death. He has told the world that it was He who created it, and if you believe Him, you will make the right choice and live. If you don't, then this is it. The only consolation is the gift of this organic life such as it is. It's a gift either way. But with that balance sheet He doesn't owe you anything. The ball (your life) is in your court.

And what evidence do you have for any of this?

 

[ScottA]

And what evidence do you have for any of this?

Why?

When you ask for directions...do you ask for evidence when someone points you in the right direction?

Don't ask. Take it or leave it. But it wasn't for you anyway.

 

[Nancy]

Then how can I possible know it is god and not natural?

Well, I should say that, using the man on the roof scenario...if I had been begging God to help me and along comes a guy in a canoe, or boat or whatever, lol...you can be sure I would have been giving God the glory for sending that boat my way. Like I said, God uses natural means (generally) to communicate with us in tangible terms and spiritually in spiritual terms like...believing without seeing? JMO :)

 

[Vince]

Why?

When you ask for directions...do you ask for evidence when someone points you in the right direction?

Don't ask. Take it or leave it. But it wasn't for you anyway.

I would if there were many people telling me different directions to the same place like this site. If that happens then I need evidence to believe who is correct. You just think that I need to take your word that you are giving the correct directions over others. I think that is arrogant because you have no evidence for your directions. Why should I believe you over DaveL or Nancy etc.

 

[Nancy]

I would if there were many people telling me different directions to the same place like this site. If that happens then I need evidence to believe who is correct. You just think that I need to take your word that you are giving the correct directions over others. I think that is arrogant because you have no evidence for your directions. Why should I believe you over DaveL or Nancy etc.

I wouldn't know what to believe either in this case so, maybe your eyes are on Christians way too much and not on Christ? Don't look at us, we are all over the board, lol...take God at His word because He is faithful...Christians are still human and can be just as unfaithful as the next guy/gal. This is YOUR journey and I find that they are different for each of us-even though we are all following The Way, The Truth and The Life: Christ. To me now, it would take a lot more faith on my part to NOT believe in a Creator of this awesomely complex universe and all that is in it. Not to mention, how the human body is designed. I know that does not constitute as evidence. The only "evidence" I could show is my own life. I do hope you will continue to seek truth...

 

[ScottA]

I would if there were many people telling me different directions to the same place like this site. If that happens then I need evidence to believe who is correct. You just think that I need to take your word that you are giving the correct directions over others. I think that is arrogant because you have no evidence for your directions. Why should I believe you over DaveL or Nancy etc.

Then don't ask.

But it is not arrogant to treat you like someone who is looking a gift horse in the mouth. It is arrogant to ask for evidence.

 

[Dave L]

So now I hate the needy as well? Does this exempt you? You seem to have a computer so you have not sold everything you have. BTW that is an immoral and illogical statement by Jesus anyway. If I do that, then I cannot take care of my own family which I am obligated to do morally.

If you define love according to scripture, anything less than treating others as your absolute equal is sin. Hatred (inequality) is the root of all sin.

 

[bbyrd009]

No I don't believe that point of what you say they will see Jesus in the flesh with their eyes.
Thing is that the Jews seen him in the flesh with their own eyes, and only Nathaniel knew he was Jesus Christ and it was because of what Jesus said to him that he knew such directly.
Now the others who were with Jesus thought he was a prophet until later that they knew and as to Saul it came not by seeing him but by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Another thing is that Jesus points out about wolfs in sheep clothing to look out for such, so they are not of Jesus Christ at all, but they will claim to be. I see this everywhere not to mention the Pope Frances for one.

Hmm, you think Francis is evil? Based upon what actions? Seem s like he's cleaning house to me?

 

[Episkopos]

God works in hidden ways. What is keeping the universe in perfect balance? What is making our hearts beat?

When we miss the wonders of God's creation...we miss the evidence of a Person that is so big and wonderful that our tiny brains can't grasp it let alone handle it.

 

[bbyrd009]

no Persons there at all, according to Scripture?
"God in three persons" is Roman yack imo

 

[bbyrd009]

If you define love according to scripture, anything less than treating others as your absolute equal is sin. Hatred (inequality) is the root of all sin.

You might contrast this concept you have acknowledged the book-learning of with your previous statements maybe dave. And maybe make up your mind here

 

[Vince]

Well, I should say that, using the man on the roof scenario...if I had been begging God to help me and along comes a guy in a canoe, or boat or whatever, lol...you can be sure I would have been giving God the glory for sending that boat my way. Like I said, God uses natural means (generally) to communicate with us in tangible terms and spiritually in spiritual terms like...believing without seeing? JMO :)

If this is true then you can never know if it is from god. If a boat comes to save me why would I think that it was sent from god when my entire life experience is that people come rescue others in a flood by boats?

 

[Vince]

Then don't ask.

But it is not arrogant to treat you like someone who is looking a gift horse in the mouth. It is arrogant to ask for evidence.

This is the most ridiculous statement I have heard. Asking for evidence is mature and reasonable. Why then don't you believe a muslims claims? Arrogance is saying I have the truth and you must believe me without evidence. Not me asking you why I should believe you. Faith is not a reasonable way to determine truth because I can believe anything with faith.

 

[Vince]

God works in hidden ways. What is keeping the universe in perfect balance? What is making our hearts beat?

Science know why out hearts beat and we have a good model for how the universe works. Why would I believe god is doing something when I have evidence for other reasons for them?

When we miss the wonders of God's creation...we miss the evidence of a Person that is so big and wonderful that our tiny brains can't grasp it let alone handle it.

Then why blame me for not handling or rasping it? Is your brain so big that you grasp it?

 

[Vince]

If you define love according to scripture, anything less than treating others as your absolute equal is sin. Hatred (inequality) is the root of all sin.

What does treating with absolute equality mean?

 

[Vince]

Yes God wants all to come to the knowledge of Truth and be saved, but God knows that not all will want that because they are happy with playing with their own ego.
So the fact remains is that God understands totally what the subject is and the fact is not all will cut it. not that God wills that on anyone, it's you that has free will, as to or not.

I did all I could for a long time just like many people. I asked, how may works do I need to do to be able to believe?

 

[Dave L]

What does treating with absolute equality mean?

Treating enemies as your absolute equal.

 

[ScottA]

This is the most ridiculous statement I have heard. Asking for evidence is mature and reasonable. Why then don't you believe a muslims claims? Arrogance is saying I have the truth and you must believe me without evidence. Not me asking you why I should believe you. Faith is not a reasonable way to determine truth because I can believe anything with faith.

You have it all upside down and backwards. That is why I gave the example of asking directions. You are in no position to ask anything of anyone who has responded to your inquiry - not any inquiry, not from anyone, not for anything, and certainly not from God. That is what should be considered ridiculous. Have you asked your mother and father for evidence? Have your children asked for evidence from you? Do you ask for evidence when someone gives you a gift? "I realize it's my birthday, but I'm sorry I cannot accept this gift without evidence that the gift is authentic." Right! How did you ever get through school? Did you ask for evidence from your teachers before you would go along with their teaching? You don't have to like the answers - but that whole way of thinking is what is ridiculous.

It is also arrogant. You seem to think that everyone owes you something, that you are entitled to something. No one owes you anything. Grow up!

So...if you are not decidedly grateful - don't ask.

As for believing one answer over another - use your head. Assuming all the answers are equal, is an admission of ignorance. Strike two: arrogance, now ignorance. Needy but critical. Seriously?! If you were using your head...you wouldn't need to ask. You would be able to figure out without asking that there is only one continuous thread of data by eyewitnesses throughout all of history, and that in spite of the variable of divers witnesses of imperfect ability, they generally agree enough to blame any error on the people rather than the facts. But even without all that, without asking anyone - if you were alone on a desert island, you would have the same acts of God bombarding you with plenty of evidence. Acts of God. Seriously, do you own insurance? Do you pay money to an institution who recognizes acts of God? And you still pay them?

You have a serious problem.

The road out begins with humility, not demands.

 

[Nancy]

If this is true then you can never know if it is from god. If a boat comes to save me why would I think that it was sent from god when my entire life experience is that people come rescue others in a flood by boats?

Christians give God the glory for ALL things, it is up to us in recognizing that "every good gift comes from God". Personally, I do not believe in coincidences :)

 

[Helen]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit God only gives to a select few.

...and the band played- "Believe it if you like".

Romans 12
3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

...and we are without excuse ..