Divine Hiddenness

[Vince]

Christians tell me that we can know god exists if we will honestly seek him and want to know he exists. Some say he wants a relationship with me. Many say that I will receive faith if I actively and honestly seek him. My question is why then do many Christians seek him honestly and want him to exist but never receive faith from god? Most atheists including me have a lack of belief because we at one time sought out god and god never responded. Many people honestly seek him and never gain a relationship, why?

 

[bbyrd009]

Christians tell me that we can know god exists if we will honestly seek him and want to know he exists. Some say he wants a relationship with me. Many say that I will receive faith if I actively and honestly seek him. My question is why then do many Christians seek him honestly and want him to exist but never receive faith from god? Most atheists including me have a lack of belief because we at one time sought out god and god never responded. Many people honestly seek him and never gain a relationship, why?

Bc they love the world, and cannot hear I guess. The end goal of "Christianity" is supposed to be destruction of the ego, but really who wants to do that?

 

[Vince]

Bc they love the world, and cannot hear I guess. The end goal of "Christianity" is supposed to be destruction of the ego, but really who wants to do that?

You cannot possible know that I did not seek god or that I loved the world more. You would rather call me a liar than your god be a liar. I know that I sought god earnestly and honestly for a long time, the fact that you tell me that I did not gives evidence that he does not exist.

 

[bbyrd009]

You cannot possible know that I did not seek god or that I loved the world more. You would rather call me a liar than your god be a liar. I know that I sought god earnestly and honestly for a long time, the fact that you tell me that I did not gives evidence that he does not exist.

Ah Vince my apologies, I was talking about myself lol, shoulda said "we" or "me" there I guess.

As far as I am concerned you are ahead of me on the path--actually I have much evidence for this, I even remarked on it at the time? When you first got here and you were slaying everyone with your manner? Need to follow up on that and check for any other witnesses come to think of it, hmm, but Vince you are the like second to last person here that um would need an intermediary lets say, since you say you don't believe in God anymore, I guess? Otherwise I would put it differently.

So anyway no, I meant to speak generally, and see I don't think your current stated beliefs, nor your past ones really mean much, we are even told to not debate beliefs, there is no judgement for beliefs, and one can say they are saved by the blood of the Lamb HALLELUJAH all day long, so what, if you are tearing them a new one and they don't even realize it here where at least I can witness lol. Well, there was one other too I guess, ha gotta go see now.

So anyway, congrats on leaving the camp, isn't ever pretty I guess, and also bs you never dropped everything and walked out your front door in your life, no spares or money, and you prolly even went to Luby's right after huh
I did anyway

careful you don't find yourself ignorantly worshipping an Unknown God I guess, dunno if that means anything to you

 

[Vince]

Ah Vince my apologies, I was talking about myself lol, shoulda said "we" or "me" there I guess.

No problem.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Well I have a full on Atheist mate that I have tried to talk to for years but we are not on the same page, I think it's that he is just so worldly and everything is just about him when you truly look into what he is all about.
He says that he has looked into Christianity and knows all that their is to know, and his wife and I just look at him saying you have no idea at all what you are talking about, he is dead to the Holy Spirit, and one has to understand hat point when you talk to him, because he does not even know the words mean when you talk to him as he is off with the pixies.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well I have a full on Atheist mate that I have tried to talk to for years but we are not on the same page, I think it's that he is just so worldly and everything is just about him when you truly look into what he is all about.
He says that he has looked into Christianity and knows all that their is to know, and his wife and I just look at him saying you have no idea at all what you are talking about, he is dead to the Holy Spirit, and one has to understand hat point when you talk to him, because he does not even know the words mean when you talk to him as he is off with the pixies.

Any chance you could get him to join?


Bc we are fresh out of nonsense around here!

 

[bbyrd009]

Most atheists including me have a lack of belief because we at one time sought out god and god never responded.

Thank God so now y'all are over the "beliefs" thing entirely...only there is obv still a hole to fill, which is not even what I was gonna say, but maybe the beliefs provided something or something maybe. So anyway imo you hardly lack beliefs, they have just changed, right? Now you just "believe" something different, and let's admit their are maybe lots of feelings involved too. That is fairly central imo, something that should be looked at, a coping mech for removing feelings from certain equations where they prolly don't belong. No one has ever gone up to heaven, Vince, you and your sons will be here with me ok

Many people honestly seek him and never gain a relationship, why?

one reason might be that they have set the parameters for the relationship beforehand, based upon expectations and presumptions. The things I was gonna do for God, Vinnie. Big Things, ok. Important Stuff. I was Going Places for God lol. You could not stand to be in a room with me for no minutes back then I'm sure. I was honestly seeking Him too.

but I guess that isn't the formula; the formula is "leave town broke, don't talk to anyone on the way, don't leave in the wrong spirit, don't go to the wrong people, stay in one house when you get there, eat what they feed you," etc, see, basically the exact opposite of what is usually presented, an ego-destroying exercise rather than an ego-building one

you have a perfectly fine relationship with God right now imo, I can tell bc you don't like it! Guess that makes no sense lol...but that's just how doers who are not on tares talk. You just got swallowed by a whale that's all

 

[Episkopos]

Christians tell me that we can know god exists if we will honestly seek him and want to know he exists. Some say he wants a relationship with me. Many say that I will receive faith if I actively and honestly seek him. My question is why then do many Christians seek him honestly and want him to exist but never receive faith from god? Most atheists including me have a lack of belief because we at one time sought out god and god never responded. Many people honestly seek him and never gain a relationship, why?

This is true. The problem is that we want God to respond on OUR terms. But God uses silence in order to quieten our spirits. God whispers to us. We want Him to be forceful....but that is not God's way.

So then to actually contact God requires humility and quietness. I guess we prefer a voice that says loudly to us...NO, not that way... every time we do it wrong. But that would be our way. God's way works and is eternal in nature. We have to adapt our ways to His.

 

[bbyrd009]

an hour in a cave in the dark would drive most ppl insane, yeh

but Jonah tho. His objections on the Ninevites reflecting upon himself of course...it's in "whom you ignorantly worship..." and culminates in the withering tree thing, which I can attest to witnessing here, but never associated with my own episodes before lol. Pride and ego, man

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Any chance you could get him to join?


Bc we are fresh out of nonsense around here!

Who Vince ? I don't know Vince, but I will say that what I know of dedicated Atheist is they don't have ears to hear.

My mate gets in my face and demands that when he sees Jesus in the flesh, then he will believe. what an idiot ! no he wont, the Jews seen Jesus and what was the percentage who had faith in him at the time.

Atheist want a god for themselves and that's what they are looking for.

My atheist mate could not truly give a rats about anyone but himself, sure he looks up to people who have more wealth then himself, regardless of how they made it. because money is his god and that can give one power and control over others, he can see that so that gives him power and that's what feeds his ego.
He can not see the advantage in others value regardless, good will etc does not exist. all are to be exploited if he can fool or rip another off he gets a great kick out of it, it's like a drug that he craves for himself.
Now if I point out that such that he does is wrong, he thinks I am just being foolish or not honest.
Look I do not treat people like that as I would not be able to live with myself and I don't like being around such people but they are everywhere and he just lives down the road and I have known him from when he was 5yo and he shits me off no end and all my good mates can not stand him. if I were not a Christian I would not give him the time of day so too speak. but I understand sinners and he is an idiot, not to mention the last 10 years he has gotten worse and worse each year.

 

[bbyrd009]

He (who is not Vince) says that he has looked into Christianity and knows all that their is to know, and his wife and I just look at him saying you have no idea at all what you are talking about, he is dead to the Holy Spirit, and one has to understand hat point when you talk to him, because he does not even know the words mean when you talk to him as he is off with the pixies.

Any chance you could get him to join?

Who Vince ? I don't know Vince, but I will say that what I know of dedicated Atheist is they don't have ears to hear.

ah, so.
um and you know this for a fact, you're saying?

Funny this came up, see, bc there is a hidden thing right there that you're maybe not hearing, and there is also a thing about Christians initially being charged with being Atheists that we get wrong too I guess.

But you're maybe fam with comparisons of Atheists and Fundies?

My mate gets in my face and demands that when he sees Jesus in the flesh, then he will believe. what an idiot ! no he wont, the Jews seen Jesus and what was the percentage who had faith in him at the time.

Atheist want a god for themselves and that's what they are looking for.

well, I understand the perspective, but I have to point out that these were the same exact charges leveled at Christians, and after all, reflecting on this concept--particularly the "seeing Jesus in the flesh" part--it maybe starts to make sense why, bearing in mind the beliefs of most Christians here, on that same point?

I mean I dunno, but I struggle to recall anyone here who claims to be saved that has not evinced the belief that they will see Jesus in the flesh with their two eyes? Don't you believe that?

My atheist mate could not truly give a rats about anyone but himself, sure he looks up to people who have more wealth then himself, regardless of how they made it. because money is his god and that can give one power and control over others, he can see that so that gives him power and that's what feeds his ego.
He can not see the advantage in others value regardless, good will etc does not exist. all are to be exploited if he can fool or rip another off he gets a great kick out of it, it's like a drug that he craves for himself.
Now if I point out that such that he does is wrong, he thinks I am just being foolish or not honest.
Look I do not treat people like that as I would not be able to live with myself and I don't like being around such people but they are everywhere and he just lives down the road and I have known him from when he was 5yo and he shits me off no end and all my good mates can not stand him. if I were not a Christian I would not give him the time of day so too speak. but I understand sinners and he is an idiot, not to mention the last 10 years he has gotten worse and worse each year.

well, I know it might be easy to put that all down to his "atheism," and I can't deny that that might be a factor, but of course I could provide any number of links for predatory Christians too, or Good Samaritans (also deemed pagans, at least) for that matter, right.

 

[bbyrd009]

Galileans, why do you stand there looking up into the sky?
you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up.
If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.

Now of course we adjust the first one to comport with our beliefs, and we mostly ignore the second one I guess, but it should not be too hard to note how easily the charges leveled at Atheists might also be directed at most "believers?"

 

[brakelite]

want him to exist

I suppose we could ask you what was/is the God like that you want to exist? Because if you have a concept of God already established and that is the God you are searching for, then you can be assured you won't find him. All our concepts of God are wrong in some detail, for some more so than others...and for those who have not found Him, then I would suggest for you your ideas about God could be staggeringly wrong to the point of being unrecognisable.
Now your failure to be right about who and what God is doesn't mean you will never know Him, but like bbryd said, I think the key is starting from a point of admitting complete ignorance and disabusing yourself of any preconceived ideas about the kind of God you hope exists, and just accept Him as you find Him allowing Him to reveal Himself to you little by little, as much as you can bear.

 

[Nancy]

Any chance you could get him to join?


Bc we are fresh out of nonsense around here!

Never! Ha!

 

[Dave L]

Christians tell me that we can know god exists if we will honestly seek him and want to know he exists. Some say he wants a relationship with me. Many say that I will receive faith if I actively and honestly seek him. My question is why then do many Christians seek him honestly and want him to exist but never receive faith from god? Most atheists including me have a lack of belief because we at one time sought out god and god never responded. Many people honestly seek him and never gain a relationship, why?

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit God only gives to a select few.

 

[bbyrd009]

Unfortunately Christians got stuck with beliefs instead, huh dave

Let the blind lead, the blind

"it's like this and
like that and like
this, and uh..."

 

[bbyrd009]

Never! Ha!

Ha well I meant a certain kind of nonsense; the kind not Standing There, if you will
plus I speak pixie

 

[Dave L]

Unfortunately Christians got stuck with beliefs instead, huh dave

Let the blind lead, the blind

"it's like this and
like that and like
this, and uh..."

You should read your bible more.

 

[bbyrd009]

You should read your bible more.

That's it dave, sit Up There in that seat and pretend, if you like.
faith comes by hearing, too, right

so no offense but listening to a guy who can't hear make flowery religious statements about faith is prolly counter-productive, even if you certainly are not technically wrong I guess. Yes, I should read my Bible more, but at least It isn't a minefield for me now.
Never hurts to stick to the obvious though I guess, ty. Lead on bro