Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
While I agree with the Genesis sentiment in this... the CPDV of 2009...... Really?
Do animals have souls?
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Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Genesis 1
And then God said, "Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven." (Your reply #120)
Is in the newest bible I could find ~OF NOTE IS... Only the Catholic Bibles mention the word soul with animals..... None other does.
Catholic Public Domain Version (CPDV)
The Catholic Public Domain Version, Original Edition was completed on March 28th, 2009.Gen 1:20 And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”
1:21 And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind. And God saw that it was good.
1-24 God also said, "Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species." And so it became.
Also:
Genesis 1:20-31 And then God said, "Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven." And God created the great sea creatures, and everything wit | Catholic Public Domain Version (CPDV) | Download The Bible App Now (Which is , of course a different presentation of the CPDV
1:20 And then God said, "Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven."
1:21 And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind.
1:24"Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species."
Genesis, 1 - In the beginning God created heaven and - Catholic Public Domain Version
In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. But the earth was empty and unoccupied, and darknesses were over the face of the abyss; and so the Spirit of God was brought over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light.” And ...
20.And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”
21.And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind. And God saw that it was good.
24. God also said, "Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species." And so it became.
Latin/English Bible
Genesis - Latin English Study Bible
The Book of Genesis. The Holy Bible. Latin Vulgate Bible and English translation (CPDV), with translation commentary. Public domain.
www.sacredbible.org
{1:20} And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”
{1:21} And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind. And God saw that it was good.
{1:24} God also said, “Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species.” And so it became.
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. I'm not CatholicGenesis 1
And then God said, "Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven." (Your reply #120)
Is in the newest bible I could find ~OF NOTE IS... Only the Catholic Bibles mention the word soul with animals..... None other does.
Catholic Public Domain Version (CPDV)
The Catholic Public Domain Version, Original Edition was completed on March 28th, 2009.
Gen 1:20 And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”
1:21 And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind. And God saw that it was good.
1-24 God also said, "Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species." And so it became.
Also:
Genesis 1:20-31 And then God said, "Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven." And God created the great sea creatures, and everything wit | Catholic Public Domain Version (CPDV) | Download The Bible App Now (Which is , of course a different presentation of the CPDV
1:20 And then God said, "Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven."
1:21 And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind.
1:24"Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species."
Genesis, 1 - In the beginning God created heaven and - Catholic Public Domain Version
In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. But the earth was empty and unoccupied, and darknesses were over the face of the abyss; and so the Spirit of God was brought over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light.” And ...www.bibliacatolica.com.br
20.And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”
21.And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind. And God saw that it was good.
24. God also said, "Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species." And so it became.
Latin/English Bible
Genesis - Latin English Study Bible
The Book of Genesis. The Holy Bible. Latin Vulgate Bible and English translation (CPDV), with translation commentary. Public domain.www.sacredbible.org
{1:20} And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”
{1:21} And God created the great sea creatures, and everything with a living soul and the ability to move that the waters produced, according to their species, and all the flying creatures, according to their kind. And God saw that it was good.
{1:24} God also said, “Let the land produce living souls in their kind: cattle, and animals, and wild beasts of the earth, according to their species.” And so it became.
ON THE NATURE OF THE SOUL
THE HEBREW VIEW: The Hebrew word for soul is nephesh and it literally means "breath." Animals as well as human beings were created with this life breath as a gift from God (Gen. 2:7; 7:22, 6:17; Ecc. 3:19). The Hebrew nephesh is also connected with the life-blood (Gen. 9:4; Lev. 17:11), and if the breath and/or blood leaves the body or stops circulating, then the soul is dead (Num. 6:6; Lev. 19:28).
Rather than a dualistic view like Plato's--i.e., an immaterial, immortal soul separate from, but within a material body--the Hebrews believed that the soul is a psycho-physical unity. It is sometimes called a "somatic" (Gk. soma=body) soul to emphasize the fact that there is no soul without the body and vice versa.
We have to conclude,then, that the Hebrew soul was thoroughly mortal, and that this life was the most important for human beings, and that the afterlife was essentially the non-life of Sheol (the "Pit") where everyone goes, exists as a shadow, and is alienated from God. Note this passage from Job: "Before I go, never to return, to a land of darkness and gloom [Sheol]" (10:21, Anchor Bible).
THE NEW TESTAMENT: The somatic soul of the Hebrews continued to have a profound influence, even though Greek dualism is strong as well. Late Judaism, especially under the Pharisees, eventually accepted the idea of eternal life, Heaven, and Hell, and this idea passes into Christianity. The Hebrew "somatic" view dominated particularly in the idea of the resurrection of the body. This is alien to Platonic and Hindu views of the soul, which celebrates a disembodied soul and rejects the body as ultimately evil.
The New Testament uses the Greek word psych‘ for soul (it means "breath" too), and, interestingly enough, there are animal souls here, too (Rev. 8:9). And, even more intriguing, Jesus, when he dies, is said to give up his soul () or his "spirit" (). What are the implications of this?
THREE VIEWS OF THE SOUL'S NATURE AND DESTINY
HOMERIC-HEBRAIC: The human soul is essentially mortal and must live in a body to have any integrity or meaning. There is a shadowy, meaningless afterlife in Hades or Sheol.
JUDEO-CHRISTIAN: The human soul is naturally mortal, but immortality is "bestowed" upon it by divine miracle, which resurrects the body and enables it to live with the soul forever. (Note that the Hebrew idea of psycho-physical unity wins out over Greek dualism.) Interestingly enough, this immortality must be granted to everyone, otherwise eternal damnation in Hell would make so sense.
PLATONIC-HINDU: The human soul is naturally and essentially immortal; it is uncreated and eternal. The soul passes from one body to another through a series of many incarnations. After paying off its sin (karmic debt), the soul is liberated from somatic existence and lives in a totally blissful state.
AN ARGUMENT FOR THE IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL (based on Plato)
A thing can be destroyed only by separation into its parts.
The soul has no parts.
Therefore, the soul cannot be destroyed.
Objection 1: Cannot something be reduced to nothing, as in blowing out a flame, without breaking it into parts? Analagously, this would mean that the soul might fade out after several incarnations.
Objection 2: The self-soul that we can observe introspectively has many parts. As the Buddha argued, the self is nothing but a bundle of emotions, thoughts, dispositions, and awareness.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
I am not Catholic either.
Interesting that it was they who introduced animal souls into Genesis.
Thank you for this info.
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
I found it interesting the Hebrews said it first.
They're more open than thelater Catholics were apparently. The name they give to Holy Spirit is Sophia.
Recognizing the female power in nature.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Very interesting.... WRONG but interesting.
A little light reading for you, if you are so inclined... going back actually 30 some years ago.
SOPHIA REVISITED
When they first heard about the trouble with Sophia, the folks at the Methodist Church headquarters in Nashville didn’t know what everyone was getting so excited about. “I’ve work…
www.chicagotribune.com
SOPHIA REVISITED
When they first heard about the trouble with Sophia, the folks at the Methodist Church headquarters in Nashville didn't know what everyone was getting so excited about."I've worked for the church all these years, and I'd never heard of Sophia," said Tom McAnally, chief spokesman for the United Methodist Church. "We thought she was the waitress down at the corner diner."
McAnally soon learned that Sophia was no neighborhood waitress.
To Christian feminists seeking new ways to envision the divine, "Sophia" embodies the spirit of wisdom, a primordial source of female power.
But to a rising chorus of voices in the Methodist, Presbyterian and other churches, Sophia is a pagan goddess and dangerous heresy threatening the patriarchal foundations of American Christianity.
What inspired the uproar over Sophia was a little-noticed, church-financed conference for Christian feminists convened in Minneapolis in November and called "ReImagining 1993."
Reports soon emerged about some rather unorthodox prayers and rituals held at this ecumenical gathering, which attracted a crowd of 2,000 women and 85 men, including leading staff members of the Presbyterian and Methodist denominations.
"Our maker Sophia, we are women in your image," the women reportedly intoned. "With the hot blood of our wombs we give form to new life. . . . With nectar between our thighs we invite a lover . . . with our warm body fluids we remind the world of its pleasures and sensations."
Heresy and paganism, declared the Presbyterian Layman, the watchdog newspaper of evangelicals within the relatively liberal Presbyterian Church USA.
There is more in the link and many more links but this was the most concise.....
So I wonder if the two Sophia are in any way linked?
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
How can you call it wrong when you finished your presentation admitting you don't know if your resource is linked?Very interesting.... WRONG but interesting.
A little light reading for you, if you are so inclined... going back actually 30 some years ago.
SOPHIA REVISITED
When they first heard about the trouble with Sophia, the folks at the Methodist Church headquarters in Nashville didn’t know what everyone was getting so excited about. “I’ve work…SOPHIA REVISITED
When they first heard about the trouble with Sophia, the folks at the Methodist Church headquarters in Nashville didn't know what everyone was getting so excited about.
"I've worked for the church all these years, and I'd never heard of Sophia," said Tom McAnally, chief spokesman for the United Methodist Church. "We thought she was the waitress down at the corner diner."
McAnally soon learned that Sophia was no neighborhood waitress.
To Christian feminists seeking new ways to envision the divine, "Sophia" embodies the spirit of wisdom, a primordial source of female power.
But to a rising chorus of voices in the Methodist, Presbyterian and other churches, Sophia is a pagan goddess and dangerous heresy threatening the patriarchal foundations of American Christianity.
What inspired the uproar over Sophia was a little-noticed, church-financed conference for Christian feminists convened in Minneapolis in November and called "ReImagining 1993."
Reports soon emerged about some rather unorthodox prayers and rituals held at this ecumenical gathering, which attracted a crowd of 2,000 women and 85 men, including leading staff members of the Presbyterian and Methodist denominations.
"Our maker Sophia, we are women in your image," the women reportedly intoned. "With the hot blood of our wombs we give form to new life. . . . With nectar between our thighs we invite a lover . . . with our warm body fluids we remind the world of its pleasures and sensations."
Heresy and paganism, declared the Presbyterian Layman, the watchdog newspaper of evangelicals within the relatively liberal Presbyterian Church USA.
There is more in the link and many more links but this was the most concise.....
So I wonder if the two Sophia are in any way linked?
Not quite correct - the Darby translation uses the word soul:
Genesis 1:
(20) And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.
(21) And God created the great sea monsters, and every living soul that moves with which the waters swarm, after their kind, and every winged fowl after its kind. And God saw that it was good.
(24) And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth, after their kind. And it was so.
According to Bible Hub the Aramaic Bible In Plain English also uses soul:
(1:24) And God said, “The Earth shall produce the living soul with its genus, beast, and creepers, and the beast of the Earth with its kind”, and it was in this way.
and Smith's Literal Translation:
(1:24) And God will say, the earth shall bring forth the living soul according to its kind, cattle and creeping things, and living things of the earth after its kind: and it shall be so.
and even an early English translation, the Coverdale Bible of 1535:
(1:24) And God sayde: let ye earth brynge forth lyuynge soules, euery one after his kynde: catell, wormes & what as hath life vpon earth, euery one after his kynde. And so it came to passe.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Fair assessment.
BUT. I certainly can say wrong about "The name they give to Holy Spirit is Sophia.
Recognizing the female power in nature."
I have always heard it said... God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
I have never heard Goddess, the Holy Spirit which is what naming the Holy Spirit would mean. After all... back in the day there were only 2 genders to reference the differences... unless you call a Eunuch a gender... I dont.
It was during that meeting that I gave you the link in that had those women reimagining and praying to the "Goddess" Sophia. But in all the links I have ever seens with regard to this.... BTW.... the Presbyterian Church USA is now fully woke... I never saw Sophia being talked of in terms of being God, the father....
But now that I think about it..... WOW.... YES THEY DID.... kind of. I copied for you what they were saying...
"Our maker Sophia, we are women in your image," the women reportedly intoned. "With the hot blood of our wombs we give form to new life. . . . With nectar between our thighs we invite a lover . . . with our warm body fluids we remind the world of its pleasures and sensations."
OUR MAKER SOPHIA... dang that sure does call God a female.....
Anyway... I digress... The Holy Spirit IS NOT NOW or NEVER HAS BEEN even a hint of anything female.
Therefore they are/were WRONG
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Thank you,, thank you , thank you , thank you, thank you..........
.I searched for the verse and Duck Duck only gave me Catholic. So then there is agreement between some... from each side of this aisle.... the aisle being that division that keeps us separated from the Catholics and Protestants.
Now these Should definitively be proof for even the staunches of naysayers......?......
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
I think you are too wrapped in gender pronouns. God is not male.
God created human male and female humans in the image of God,the Holy Spirit. God is a spirit and male and female
are of and from God.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, But God did create Adam, and was going to keep him as the only human in the garden had there been a good help mete for him. And the Holy spirit, who common sence says was male because he came on Mary and hence male Jesus was born. And seemingly from day 1 it was the males who were the heads and dominated... it just seems to me like even as a spirit Father God has to be very masculine
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
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