Do animals have souls?
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Right. So as I said, there is clear Biblical support for the rapture. It was you that brought up the subject and used the word rapture, so of course I would use the same word, a word which most Christians use and know what it means. It's much simpler to use the word rapture than say "the catching up" or "the snatching away" or "Jesus' return to gather the Church". Some Christians just use the Greek word and refer to it as the "harpazo".
Duh! I never said that it did mention animals. I quoted that verse in support of my statement that there will be more than enough to keep us happy that we won't miss having pets/animals.
Or you misunderstood what he meant. It can be easy to misunderstand some of Jesus' sayings, e.g.:
John 2:16-21 (WEB):
(16) To those who sold the doves, he said, “Take these things out of here! Don’t make my Father’s house a marketplace!”
(17) His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will eat me up.”
(18) The Jews therefore answered him, “What sign do you show us, seeing that you do these things?”
(19) Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
(20) The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days?”
(21) But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 6:56 (WEB):(56) He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me, and I in him.
God, Jesus and the angels existed before the world, and anything physical, was created. Were they starving then?
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Gabriel_Arch said ..."Reading scripture differently from one another I think is also of God."
And I truly believe this is very accurate.
My gut tells me this goes back to the Tower of Babel... whether or not you personally believe that to have been fact, or an allegory.
And seemingly is born out by what each individual sees as they read the 4 corners of the Holy book and their personal understanding.
With all the varied denominations of Protestants there has to be a reason. (I just read that in 2015... I think... there is a new Presbyterian one) ((So now I know of 5))
And a seeming spit of the Orthodox from the RCC way back... and the changes that come about within the
RCC as each Pope makes some changes....
With all the myriad of translations scattered around the earth... just look at how many people feel they could write a scripture with a clearer understanding of meaning.
Is any singular church right or could they all be?
While ,
is truly stated ... I often wonder.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Simpler yes, but when trying to witness... even to each other... using terms that are simpler, with the necessity
of needing further explanation, when someone may "google" where in the bible is the rapture... just sews confusion.
The Holy Word is confusing enough as it is in places when we all read the same scriptures and come away with different meaning of what is said.
Take the word Trinity. You , if not a believer, at least know that this word refers to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. But if you are not a believer you cannot relate 2 Cor. 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.... is a clear indication there is a Trinity....
Godhead in Christianity - Wikipedia
Alrighty then... before I digress further I shall move on
And no chocolate
or popcorn 
... or Superbowl 
I did not misunderstand....,,,,,,,,,,,,,,~~!~~~~~~~!
New International Version
“Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Berean Literal Bible
Truly I say to you that never will I drink of the fruit of the vine again, until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."
King James Bible
Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
NASB 1995
“Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Enough????????? I can give you more.... even from the interlinear
Which reads:
Truly I say to you that no more never not will I drink of the fruit of the vine until the day that when it I drink anew in the kingdom - of GOD
If you could turn water into wine, or make baskets of bread or fish multiply do you really think you would starve?
I was not there... were you/
It doesn't say "spiritual resurrection", it IS a spiritual resurrection! What part of man is "dead in trespasses and sins" before they are quickened/made alive (spiritually) by being born again? We are physically alive, but spiritually man is DEAD without the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. It is our spirit that is made alive when we are born again, and that through new birth of His Spirit.
Good. I'm glad you understand the life we receive through Christ when we are born again of His Spirit is eternal. That is not our flesh & bone body that shall one day die. It is our spirit that returns to God when our body dies that is eternal and shall never die. Our spirit ascends to God in heaven ALIVE IF we have been born again and have ETERNAL spiritual life through the Spirit of Christ in us.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
This is why Christ says that whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die. Christ said this knowing every human is destined to physically die. Because He was not speaking of our physical life but our eternal spiritual life we receive when we partake of Christ's resurrection life, because He is the FIRST RESURRECTION from the dead and shall never die again. When we have been born again of His Spirit as spiritual body of believers in heaven we shall never die.
This is a fallacy that is nowhere taught in Scripture, but some believe based on a misunderstanding of the verses you quote. How can our spirit that has eternal spiritual life through His Spirit in us become lost, since the Spirit shall not depart from our spirit until we have resurrected immortal & incorruptible bodies when the last trumpet sounds? Since the Spirit is us does not leave us, we cannot turn away from Christ that we again become spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. Once we have been sealed by Christ's Spirit in our spirit, we have His promise the life we receive through Him is forever and the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:12-14 (KJV) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Was Paul speaking of our flesh & bone that was physically alive, but "dead in trespasses and sins", or our spirit, through the spirit of this world, the "prince of the power of the air" in times past when we desired to fulfill the lusts and desires of our flesh and mind, being by nature "the children of wrath"?
Ephesians 2:1-3 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Paul likens our spiritually dead state of being DEAD in sins. But while we were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, through the power of Christ's Word and His Spirit we believed by grace through faith, and were made spiritually alive in Him. Since His Spirit is in believers, we have been raised up together with Christ through His Spirit and are spiritually alive with Christ.
Ephesians 2:5-6 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:Our body is not as good as dead before we are born again of Christ's Spirit. Our body, being natural, mortal and corruptible is of the earth and destined to die and return to the earth. But our spirit through Christ's Spirit in us shall return to God in heaven eternally alive a spiritual body of believers there. The spiritual body of Christ alive in heaven will wait there until time given this earth expires. Then our spirit alive will return with Christ from heaven to give our changed resurrected body of flesh & bone immortal and incorruptible life on the new earth that shall be after the first heaven and earth passes away.
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
The Revelation uses symbolic language to demonstrate spiritual truths. We must discern what the symbols are used for if we are to rightly understand. John was given to understand that physical life for believers does not mean our spirit will return to God after our body dies, without life. John is proving the Words of Christ are truth. We who have lived and believed in Christ shall NEVER die. Because after our body is laid to rest we shall still be a living spiritual body in heaven.
Actually the "first resurrection" is the resurrection life of Christ. Unlike all of us who shall follow Him, believers must wait for our physical resurrection in an hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds. That doesn't mean we are not already spiritually made alive forever the moment we believe and have His Spirit within us.
While they were physically alive they LIVED and REIGNED (past tense) with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years. For this reason John sees them a spiritual body of believers alive in heaven after physical death, still living souls. If this were not true Christ would not have said those who live and believe in Him shall NEVER die. Even though these faithful saints kept the faith until physical death, after death they continued to be a spiritual body of believers in heaven.
Revelation 20:4 (KJV) .... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
First you say John is not speaking literally in the Revelation, now you argue for a literal 1,000 years, saying "is not symbolic"? Hmmm?
Again John writes as though in life we are kings and priests when we have come into the spiritual Kingdom of God.
Revelation 1:5-6 (KJV) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Not only does the verse speak of those who have lived and reigned in life with Christ, John also writes of others who had not yet, but who shall be priest of God and shall also reign with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years. John first proves those who have died in Christ are still spiritually alive in heaven after physical death, then he also writes of those who shall have part in the first resurrection, that is in life that shall partake of the resurrection life of Christ. When they partake of the resurrection of Christ, the second death (physical) no longer has power over them, because after physical death they will still be spiritually alive in heaven. These who shall reign with Christ during this time again symbolized a thousand years shall also be priests of God and of Christ.
Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
This only makes sense when we realize the thousand years symbolize time, but is not to be misunderstood as a literal one thousand years after Christ returns.
continues
You again want to pick and choose what part of the Revelation you view as literal language and what part you view as symbolic/imaginary language, depending on which fits your doctrinal point of view you are trying to read into the text.
To be seated on thrones is not different than the meaning of being kings and priests unto God. In Christ we are said to belong to a royal household of faithful saints, a royal priesthood.
1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
A/the thousand years symbolically represent TIME. Time given the Church to go unto all the nations of the earth with the Gospel. And through the Gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit the spiritual Kingdom of God is being built and shall be complete before Satan is loosed from his pit. This time coincides with Satan being bound, because Satan would not longer be able to deceive the nations, as he was able to before the Gospel went out to them. Satan held people in bondage to fear of death, keeping them in darkness an unbelief until Christ came and by His blood made atonement for sin, and defeated death. Now the nations of the world may hear the Gospel and believe through the power of the Gospel and Holy Spirit. That was not the case for all nations before the first advent of Christ.
Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Philippians 3:10 (KJV) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Hebrews 2:13-15 (KJV) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Matthew 12:28-29 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Why does John see them alive in heaven if death meant the dead are dead?
Why do you doubt life after death? You agreed the life believers receive through the Spirit of Christ when we are born again is ETERNAL! You either believe the words of Christ, or you don't, which is it? Do believers have eternal life when we are born again of His Spirit or don't we? Because death of the physical body cannot be death also of our spirit or there is NOT eternal life for whoever lives and believes in Him!
It is the Spirit that gives LIFE! When He is in you, the spirit in man shall return to God after physical death ALIVE!
John 6:63-64 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Yes, the two parts of our living soul are different. One is physical, flesh & bone, made for life on earth. The other as Paul writes is celestial/heavenly, a spiritual body, for life in heaven. For spirits are life without form. A spirit does not have a body but is said to be like the angels of God in heaven, spirit beings. Christ Jesus IS the resurrection! Now, since He has been raised up, when we have part in His resurrection life (the first resurrection) during our life times, then in death we are raised a spiritual body (not resurrected to life again, because our spirit never died). Paul says there is both man's natural body (physical) that dies, and a spiritual body in heaven that is alive, because God is not the God of the DEAD, but of the living. Since Christ's resurrection Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are among the spiritual body of believers alive in heaven, waiting there till the seventh trumpet sounds and time for this earth shall be no longer, because the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven will be complete.
1 Corinthians 15:35 (KJV) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1 Corinthians 15:38 (KJV) But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:40 (KJV) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1 Corinthians 15:44-50 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Matthew 22:30-32 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Luke 20:37 (KJV) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Luke 20:38 (KJV) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Just quoting different translations doesn't mean that you have understood what Jesus meant. Jesus is not talking literally, just as he wasn't when he said "Take, eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26). Albert Barnes' Notes for Matthew 26:29 says:
When I drink it new with you - Not that he would partake with them of literal wine there, but in the thing represented by it. Wine was an important part of the feast of the Passover, and of all feasts. The kingdom of heaven is often represented under the image of a feast. It means that he will partake of joy with them in heaven; that they will share together the honors and happiness of the heavenly world.
Jesus also said, Luke 22:29-30 (WEB):
(29) I confer on you a kingdom, even as my Father conferred on me,
(30) that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom. You will sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
"Eat and drink at my table" was just an expression meaning that they would share Jesus' kingdom.
Again you miss the point. God and angels are not physical beings. They don't process physcial substances in order to repair and grow their bodies, because they don't have physical bodies. Nor do they use physical matter to provide them with energy that can be stored in physical cells in physical bodies. How their spirit bodies function we can only guess - the Bible doesn't tell us! It does tell us that God and the angels existed before God created the physical universe. No physical matter, no atoms, existed until God created it; so no food and drink existed then either.
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Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Well, I will believe what He said because they believed what He said.
He had personal experience?
YOU cannot definitively say one way or the other. The verse is misleading at best and pure deception if it is wrong.
Good reason to not encourage the study of the bible and just let mortal men tell you
their thoughts to convince you they know what they are talking about.
How did the Sons of God MATE with the daughters of men? Or are you claiming that an allegory because you cannot figure it out?
I can figure it out. In order to mate with women, and have offspring, the angels took on human form. As Jude says:
Jude 1:6 (KJV):
(6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
The Greek word that is translated as "habitation" is oiketerion, which the Online Bible Greek Lexcon interprets as:
1) a dwelling place, habitation
1a) of the body as a dwelling place for the spirit
The Greek word is only used in one other place in the Bible, by Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:2 -
KJV:
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
WEB:(2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;
In this passsage Paul is talking about when we die our physical human body dissolves away, but God will give us (Christians) a heavenly spiritual body. The angels that left their spiritual bodies in order to live in human bodies and mate with women, back in the days of Noah, will be punished for their actions. Peter also mentions them in 2 Peter 2:4 (WEB):
(4) For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment;
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
The Bible only says that it is a resurrection from death. Jesus said, Luke 20:35 (WEB):
(35) But those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage.
As Jesus also taught, when we are dead (physcially) our spirits are not conscious, but are considered to be sleeping a deep sleep - a bit like hibernation. When we die, our spirits separate from our flesh and bones body, and it ceases to function; our thoughts cease - Psalms 146:4 (WEB):
(4) His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.
Our spirit is the essence of who we are. If our spirit is dead then we are dead. As Jesus said, Matthew 10:28 (WEB):
(28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
The soul, or spirit (Strong's says that psuche, translated as soul, means breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, heart, life, mind, soul), survives the death of the body, in a dormant state, and God can resurrect it to life again, giving it a new body (human or spritual), or he can destroy it so that it will never live again (the second death - a permanent death). The spirit part of us is not immortal; it only becomes immortal when God resurrects us, giving us an immortal spirit body.
Being begotten again (not born again) does not mean that at that point we gain an immortal spirit, as you seem to think. Paul wrote that some men "have erred concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past" (2 Timothy 2:18) and:
Philippians 3:11
(11) if by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
i.e. Paul was still hoping that he would have a part in the first resurrection - because it had not yet happened. Before he could participate in that he had to die (physical death), and later his dormant sleeping spirit would be resurrected and given a spirit body.
It is alive but unconscious, and will eventually have eternal conscious life. As Jesus said, Revelation 1:18 (WEB):
(18) and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades.
So was Jesus dead, i.e. his spirit was not conscious. But after God (into whose hands Jesus had entrusted his spirit - Luke 23:46) resurrected him, now he lives eternally alive and conscious (just as God never sleeps, Psalms 121:4, neither does Jesus).
Paul wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4:14
(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15:51(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
Our spirit is not lost; after we die it is in a deep sleep, in God's care.
And yet John writes, 1 John 5:16 (WEB)
(16) If anyone sees his {Christian} brother sinning a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for those who sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death. I don’t say that he should make a request concerning this.
As Jesus said, Matthew 12:32 (WEB):
(32) Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is to come.
Adam was not destined to die - if he did not sin then he would have lived forever. He only died because that was God's punishment for sin, and Adam sinned. Only those humans that are resurrected in the second resurrection and by their works are judged not worthy of eternal life will suffer the second death (Revelation 20:13-15). All others will have eternal human lives living on the earth - Revelation 21:4 (WEB):
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Those were resurrected from the dead! They are not physically resurrected because none shall be physically resurrected before an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. Why do you not read the passage in context? If Christ was speaking of the physical resurrection that shall come, why would He say those who obtain "that world" do not marry, cannot die anymore, and they are equal/like the angels of God? That is a description of a spirit being made alive after the physical body has died. Luke writes "NOW that the dead are raised"! IOW NOW, through the advent of Christ, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Not physically living, because Luke writes of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being alive in heaven because they died in faith waiting for the promised Messiah, Christ Jesus our Lord to come and rescue them from the grave, where they had been waiting for Him. Believers, after physical death, become like/equal to/as are the angels of God in heaven. Our spirit alive ascends to heaven if before death we have been born again of His Spirit. The spirit in man of faith leaves the body alive and ascends to heaven a spiritual body of believers there. How? By partaking of the "first resurrection" which is the resurrection life of Christ, when we are born again and spiritually enter the Kingdom of God in heaven.
Luke 20:34-38 (KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Again Ps 146 in context is speaking of those who die in unbelief. Scripture is clear there is no hope for all who live and die without partaking of Christ. The Psalm speaks of those whose trust is in man who dies in unbelief, there is no help for them, they wait in silence and darkness after physical death. But that is NOT true of those who die in faith. David knew even in death he would praise and bless the Lord, though in death his flesh (body) would rest in hope, the Lord would not leave his soul (life/spirit) in the grave (hell).
Psalm 146:3-4 (KJV) Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Psalm 115:17 (KJV) The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Psalm 115:18 (KJV) But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD.
Psalm 16:9-10 (KJV) Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
I agree! Our spirit is who we are! In this life mankind is trapped in a physical body that is destined to corruption and death. Yes, it is God only who may take our breath of life (spirit/soul) from our body in the second death (lake of fire). Death of the body for believers is not to be feared, because when our body dies, our spirit, as a living soul without physical form ascends to heaven alive a spiritual body of believers in heaven.
Only the spirit of man in unbelief is in a dormant state after physical death, because without the Spirit of Christ within you, man's spirit returns to God who gave it without life. No, the spirit is not immortal! But the spirit with the Spirit of Christ within is ETERNAL. Christ never promises that man who lives and believes in Him shall have immortal spirit life. He promises that man who lives and believes in Him shall have ETERNAL spirit life through Him. Only the spirit, which is man's identity has eternal life through Christ's Spirit in us. The part of mankind who die in faith shall have immortal & incorruptible physical body resurrected to life again through our living spirit that returns with Christ. There is no such thing as a physical spirit body! There is a physical body WITH a spirit to give our body life, and together called a living soul. In life mankind is both physical & spirit. In death mankind is both a physical corpse that returns to dust, and spirit that returns to God. The spirit of man shall return to God either in silence and darkness, or with life through the Spirit of Christ within us. Because we have Christ's promise that the eternal spiritual life we have when we believe in Him shall NEVER die.
Paul was part of the first resurrection through the resurrection life of Christ. He died in faith, having been born again of the Spirit of Christ within him, and in death Paul knew his life (spirit) through Christ's Spirit was eternal and would never die. That's why Paul longed to be out of his body of death and decay and spiritually alive in heaven with the Lord.
There is no such thing as soul sleep! Mankind after death is either fully alive with the Lord in heaven a spiritual body of believers, OR they are altogether in darkness and silence knowing nothing until they are physically resurrected from the graves to stand before God in judgment and cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.
How can believers have ETERNAL life through our spirit with the Spirit of Christ within if physical death leaves us without life? Our spirit with His Spirit is either ETERNALLY ALIVE, or without His Spirit within, DEAD! Jesus was physically dead, but His spirit was not! The spirit of Christ, like the spirit of every human returned to His Father in heaven. As soon as He died Christ's spirit went to heaven as His physical body died.
Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Prove the spirit of believers is in "deep sleep" while in God's care! Paul is speaking of our physical body in death that will be resurrected immortal & incorruptible in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. Once again there is no such thing as soul/spirit sleep! The spirit of man is either fully alive in heaven after physical death, or they are fully without life of any kind until physically resurrected from the graves to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment.
How do these verses prove that Christ's Spirit eternally within us will depart from us when we sin?
Yes, I agree mankind could have lived forever IF they did not sin! Mankind is not saved according to their works! Man is saved by grace through faith in Christ, and when man is saved by grace through faith they have been born again of the Spirit of Christ within, and the life we receive through His Spirit within us is ETERNAL spiritual life, and our spirit shall NEVER die! This is in life having partaken of the first resurrection through Christ. Believers look forward to an hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds when our eternal spirit shall once again give life to our resurrected immortal & incorruptible physical body that we may once again be complete living souls as we were in the beginning when God created mankind.
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
How do we consolidate those soul sleep passages with Ecclesiastes 12:7, that says our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us?
Why would we want to return to any version of our former human form after returning to God the moment we died?
And the 12:7 verse certainly makes for the question regarding the dead being asleep.
"“to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.”" Apostle Paul
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Why would we want to return to any version of our former human form after returning to God the moment we died?
And the 12:7 verse certainly makes for the question regarding the dead being asleep.
"“to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.”" Apostle Paul
edited and fixed a tyoo
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Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Do animals have souls?
No. Btw I did not read the 5 pages on this thread.
No need too.
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
Of course animals have souls.
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21
I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. 19 For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?
Psalm 6:36
“Your righteousness is like the mountains of God; your judgments are like the great deep; man and beast you save, O Lord.”
Luke 3:36
"
… and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.”
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21
I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. 19 For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?
Psalm 6:36
“Your righteousness is like the mountains of God; your judgments are like the great deep; man and beast you save, O Lord.”
Luke 3:36
"
… and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.”
If we are absent from the human body that means we have died, and will be sleeping in death, i.e. we will have no conscious thoughts. Our very next thoughts will be after we are resurrected to life again, which will be moments before the rapture, when we will be caught up to be with Jesus. So effectively, as far as our conscious thoughts are concerned, it will seem to us that we will fall asleep when we die and then we will wake up and be with Jesus and the other resurrected saints. We will be unaware of how much time has passed between the two events (just like when we sleep at night and wake up in the middle of the night we have no idea what time it is, or how long we have been asleep).
This is ALL true....IF you are speaking of those who die in UNBELIEF! They are the DEAD who know nothing after breathing their last, they are silent in the grave and in darkness until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and they are resurrected to damnation!
John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
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