Do Joseph Smith and Ellen White fir Bibal criteria of a true Prophet?

[JesusFan1]

As the Lord required that who ever was a true Prophey from Him would be among the brothers of Israel, in line of Isaac, would not undo or contridict any prior revelations, would know and use the name of God, and would either fo verified miracles or prophecy!

Do they qualify?

 

[DPMartin]

As the Lord required that who ever was a true Prophey from Him would be among the brothers of Israel, in line of Isaac, would not undo or contridict any prior revelations, would know and use the name of God, and would either fo verified miracles or prophecy!

Do they qualify?

according to those who witnessed in his day. it my understanding they witnessed the Merkabah according to Mormon history. it could have been something else but I'm under the impression its the Merkabah by the description I heard.

but according to the Mormon history of joseph smith yes there was some verification. look it up.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Do Joseph Smith and Ellen White fir Bibal criteria of a true Prophet?

Hi @JesusFan1, welcome to the forum. Christianity Board is a place where all whom cliam Christ are welcomed and acknowledged as Christians. That includes Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, LDS Christians ("Mormons"), JWs, SDA's, just generic Christians, etc. If that makes you uncomfortable and you would prefer a forum with a more exclusive welcomed-list, those certainly do exist.

We may not agree with each other on every theological point (I certainly don't!) but Christ is our one Lord, and we are all sisters and brothers in Him.

 

[Enoch111]

Do they qualify?

Joseph Smith was regarded as more than a prophet by his followers. But not by most Christians. Ellen G. White was also regarded as a prophetess by her followers. But again, not by most Christians.

They both had many things to say which were acceptable to all. But some of their teachings were not biblical. Christians are commanded to "Prove all things. Hold fast that which is good".

 

[JesusFan1]

Hi @JesusFan1, welcome to the forum. Christianity Board is a place where all whom cliam Christ are welcomed and acknowledged as Christians. That includes Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, LDS Christians ("Mormons"), JWs, SDA's, just generic Christians, etc. If that makes you uncomfortable and you would prefer a forum with a more exclusive welcomed-list, those certainly do exist.

We may not agree with each other on every theological point (I certainly don't!) but Christ is our one Lord, and we are all sisters and brothers in Him.

Even though Mormons have a different Jesus and another Gospel?

 

[JesusFan1]

Joseph Smith was regarded as more than a prophet by his followers. But not by most Christians. Ellen G. White was also regarded as a prophetess by her followers. But again, not by most Christians.

They both had many things to say which were acceptable to all. But some of their teachings were not biblical. Christians are commanded to "Prove all things. Hold fast that which is good".

Both of them denied the real Jesus and real Gospel!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Even though Mormons have a different Jesus and another Gospel?

Both of them denied the real Jesus and real Gospel!

@JesusFan1 I'm a "Mormon" and I assure you that you and I and Catholic and Protestants and SDA etc all worship the one Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the very Son of God whom willingly suffered and died that each of us might be saved thorough faith in Him.

If you actually want to talk about things, feel free to send me a PM. If you just want to shout and don't have functioning ears yourself, well that's your choice and everybody will just go about their day same old same old.

 

[Enoch111]

Both of them denied the real Jesus and real Gospel!

Joseph Smith did not DENY the real Jesus. He postulated a different Jesus than found in the Bible. However Ellen G. White was thoroughly confused about who Jesus is, and even contradicted herself:

JESUS DID NOT CEASE TO BE GOD
From Letter 32, 1899, quoted in the SDA Bible Commentary, Volume 5, pg. 1129 we have Ellen White stating: "But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...

JESUS WAS NOT THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY
...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one."

From her writings in Desire of the Ages, she says:
JESUS WAS MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL
"The words of the angel, 'I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God', show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, 'There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael (Christ) your prince'." (Dan. 10:21) (THE DESIRE OF AGES, p99.)
And from her writings in Spiritual Gifts. she says:
"Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses, came down from Heaven, after he had remained in the grave a short time, and resurrected him, and took him to Heaven."
and,
"As Christ and his angels drew nigh, Satan resisted their approach, but was compelled, by the glory and power of Christ and his angels to fall back. Satan claimed the body of Moses, because of his one transgression; but Christ meekly referred him to his Father, saying, "The Lord rebuke thee." " (SPIRITUAL GIFTS, Vol 4, Pg. 58)

Essentially both Joseph Smith and Ellen G. White were FALSE prophets/prophetesses. They created a lot of spiritual confusion, and obviously their gospels are false.

 

[theophilus]

If you want to compare the teachings of Joseph Smith and Ellen G. White to what the Bible teaches I recommend that you check these links:

Mormonism | CARM.org

Seventh-day Adventism | CARM.org

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If you want to compare the teachings of Joseph Smith and Ellen G. White to what the Bible teaches I recommend that you check these links:

Mormonism | CARM.org

Seventh-day Adventism | CARM.org

I can't comment on the SDA CARM page.

But the "Mormon" one is complete hogwosh. Literally every single sentence of it is giving downright false information. It's a complete embarrassment to Evangelical Christians. It's entirely possible to disagree with someone's beliefs and be accurate & respectful (something CARM completely misses on every mark).

 

[JesusFan1]

Joseph Smith did not DENY the real Jesus. He postulated a different Jesus than found in the Bible. However Ellen G. White was thoroughly confused about who Jesus is, and even contradicted herself:

JESUS DID NOT CEASE TO BE GOD
From Letter 32, 1899, quoted in the SDA Bible Commentary, Volume 5, pg. 1129 we have Ellen White stating: "But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...

JESUS WAS NOT THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY
...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one."

From her writings in Desire of the Ages, she says:
JESUS WAS MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL
"The words of the angel, 'I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God', show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, 'There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael (Christ) your prince'." (Dan. 10:21) (THE DESIRE OF AGES, p99.)
And from her writings in Spiritual Gifts. she says:
"Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses, came down from Heaven, after he had remained in the grave a short time, and resurrected him, and took him to Heaven."
and,
"As Christ and his angels drew nigh, Satan resisted their approach, but was compelled, by the glory and power of Christ and his angels to fall back. Satan claimed the body of Moses, because of his one transgression; but Christ meekly referred him to his Father, saying, "The Lord rebuke thee." " (SPIRITUAL GIFTS, Vol 4, Pg. 58)

Essentially both Joseph Smith and Ellen G. White were FALSE prophets/prophetesses. They created a lot of spiritual confusion, and obviously their gospels are false.

They both denied the Jesus of the Bibvle, and held to another Gospel, one of works!

 

[JesusFan1]

I can't comment on the SDA CARM page.

But the "Mormon" one is complete hogwosh. Literally every single sentence of it is giving downright false information. It's a complete embarrassment to Evangelical Christians. It's entirely possible to disagree with someone's beliefs and be accurate & respectful (something CARM completely misses on every mark).

Mormonism holds that God was once a Man, and as God now is, we one day shall be!
Not the eternal God of the Bible!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

They both denied the Jesus of the Bibvle, and held to another Gospel, one of works!

Mormonism holds that God was once a Man, and as God now is, we one day shall be!
Not the eternal God of the Bible!

Except not really. PM me if you actually want the have a real conversation and get the real story.

 

[amadeus]

They both denied the Jesus of the Bibvle, and held to another Gospel, one of works!

Are you then always on the Lord's side in spite of what the Psalmist penned and Paul quoted?

"...All men are liars." Psalm 116:11

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,..." Rom 3:4
Who is not a liar among those of us who have not yet overcome the world completely as did Jesus? Me? No not me either!

Give God the glory and focus on His goodness rather than on whom we can criticize or condemn because they look wrong to us?

 

[JesusFan1]

Are you then always on the Lord's side in spite of what the Psalmist penned and Paul quoted?

"...All men are liars." Psalm 116:11

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,..." Rom 3:4
Who is not a liar among those of us who have not yet overcome the world completely as did Jesus? Me? No not me either!

Give God the glory and focus on His goodness rather than on whom we can criticize or condemn because they look wrong to us?

If someone teaches another jesus and and another Gospel, what did paul say?

 

[amadeus]

If someone teaches another jesus and and another Gospel, what did paul say?

Why should I presume that Mormons teach another Jesus? Because you or someone else calls them a cult? Never having been a Mormon, I only know them from my experience with individuals, which with only one exception has been very good. I have had a lot more bad experiences with people who called themselves Christians who were not Mormons [such as Catholics and Protestants].

Does not God judge by the heart rather by the church group or doctrine? Should we pre-judge a person and even condemn them because they carry the label of "Mormon" [or Pentecostal, or Catholic, or Methodist, or Baptist, and so forth? Are we better judges than God? Without a special discernment given to us by God how well are we able to judge anyone's heart, especially if we have never even met them? Have you met all Mormons and come to know them so well?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

What kind of fruits are we seeing in anyone? Does it not require discernment from God [via the Holy Spirit] in order see the fruits?

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits... Matt 7:15-16

Then again even if we are really able to see evil fruits in a person, should we immediately be opening our mouth to condemn that person before the world? Has God not already seen?

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:18-19

 

[theophilus]

Why should I presume that Mormons teach another Jesus? Because you or someone else calls them a cult? Never having been a Mormon, I only know them from my experience with individuals, which with only one exception has been very good.

There are a lot of Mormons who are very nice people. This is true of Muslims and adherents to any other belief. That doesn't prove that what they believe is true.

If you care about another person you certainly don't want him to be deceived by false beliefs which will result in his being condemned to eternity in Hell. You have a responsibility to warn him and to show him the real way of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[JesusFan1]

There are a lot of Mormons who are very nice people. This is true of Muslims and adherents to any other belief. That doesn't prove that what they believe is true.

If you care about another person you certainly don't want him to be deceived by false beliefs which will result in his being condemned to eternity in Hell. You have a responsibility to warn him and to show him the real way of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

Mormonism holds that ONLY they are the true Church, as all others went Apostate, and their theology denies Pauline Justification!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

There are a lot of Mormons who are very nice people. This is true of Muslims and adherents to any other belief. That doesn't prove that what they believe is true.

If you care about another person you certainly don't want him to be deceived by false beliefs which will result in his being condemned to eternity in Hell. You have a responsibility to warn him and to show him the real way of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

Expect most of such stances are
1) based on terribly bad inaccurate information about what the other person believes
2) used extremely low quality apologetics
3 and most important) do anything but talk to a person about thier relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormonism holds that ONLY they are the true Church, as all others went Apostate

Just like every other church out there.