Do Joseph Smith and Ellen White fir Bibal criteria of a true Prophet?

[Enoch111]

Why should I presume that Mormons teach another Jesus?

You don't have to *presume* this. Mormon theology does present another Jesus as well as another God. Here is what their own writings show (as noted by Got Questions):

1. God
   1. God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
   2. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans . . . " (D&C 130:22).
2. God, becoming a god
   1. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
   2. "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
3. God, many gods
   1. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
   2. "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
4. God, mother goddess
   1. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
   2. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
5. God, Trinity
   1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

1. Jesus
   1. "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
   2. "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
   3. "Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh . . . " (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).

 

[amadeus]

There are a lot of Mormons who are very nice people. This is true of Muslims and adherents to any other belief. That doesn't prove that what they believe is true.

If you care about another person you certainly don't want him to be deceived by false beliefs which will result in his being condemned to eternity in Hell. You have a responsibility to warn him and to show him the real way of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

No, being nice doesn't prove they believe the truth. Neither does it prove they are completely wrong while we are completely right. Until we know all things like God who are we to condemn them? Simply because of a label without knowing a heart? We may also be wrong on some points. God is certainly aware of that. What He is looking for is the condition of our heart. What have we been doing with what we have? What kind of a judge is God?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You don't have to *presume* this. Mormon theology does present another Jesus as well as another God. Here is what their own writings show (as noted by Got Questions):

1. God
   1. God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
   2. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans . . . " (D&C 130:22).
2. God, becoming a god
   1. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
   2. "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
3. God, many gods
   1. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
   2. "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
4. God, mother goddess
   1. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
   2. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
5. God, Trinity
   1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

1. Jesus
   1. "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
   2. "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
   3. "Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh . . . " (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).

You’re Just copy and pasting bad information, not even bothering to realize only one of these many is an actual doctrinal source, and it’s meaning is completely perverted here.

 

[Enoch111]

You’re Just copy and pasting bad information, not even bothering to realize only one of these many is an actual doctrinal source, and it’s meaning is completely perverted here.

The ones doing the perverting were the Mormon teachers. Everything has been quoted from primary Mormon sources (which I have also personally examined). So you can either leave the LDS church or believe what they teach. But you cannot sit on the fence.

 

[JesusFan1]

Expect most of such stances are
1) based on terribly bad inaccurate information about what the other person believes
2) used extremely low quality apologetics
3 and most important) do anything but talk to a person about thier relationship with Jesus Christ.

Mormons, JW, Sda are among thnose who claim to be Christians, yet redefine their teeological terms and give them non biblcal meanings!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The ones doing the perverting were the Mormon teachers. Everything has been quoted from primary Mormon sources (which I have also personally examined). So you can either leave the LDS church or believe what they teach. But you cannot sit on the fence.

Soucrcs matter. Only of one these are docterinal sources. All of them are ripped out of context and the in-context meaning. And no, something being said by so-and-so does not automatically make it Thus Saith The Lord. Obviously.

Twisiting what another person believes, especially their beliefs about Christ, only serves as harassment. It does not bring anyone closer to Christ or edify Him.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormons, JW, Sda are among thnose who claim to be Christians, yet redefine their teeological terms and give them non biblcal meanings!

In your opinion.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

There are a lot of Mormons who are very nice people. This is true of Muslims and adherents to any other belief. That doesn't prove that what they believe is true.

If you care about another person you certainly don't want him to be deceived by false beliefs which will result in his being condemned to eternity in Hell. You have a responsibility to warn him and to show him the real way of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

AMEN! This is the main concern—to steer people away from false teaching (i.e. teaching that contradicts the Bible). Eternal souls are at stake.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

AMEN! This is the main concern—to steer people away from false teaching (i.e. teaching that contradicts the Bible). Eternal souls are at stake.

No souls are won with bad anti-cult information or ignoring a person’s relationship with Christ.

 

[amadeus]

You don't have to *presume* this. Mormon theology does present another Jesus as well as another God. Here is what their own writings show (as noted by Got Questions):

1. God
   1. God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
   2. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans . . . " (D&C 130:22).
2. God, becoming a god
   1. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
   2. "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
3. God, many gods
   1. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
   2. "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
4. God, mother goddess
   1. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
   2. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
5. God, Trinity
   1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

1. Jesus
   1. "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
   2. "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
   3. "Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh . . . " (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).

Thank you but really unnecessary. My older brother was a Mormon until he wasn't. He gave me a Book of Mormon which contained also the Doctrine of Covenants and the Pearl Great Price back in 1971. At my brother's suggestion I went through their prepared study of the LDS and read through the book for myself. [I still have the book, 1966 edition.]

I never became a Mormon, but I did not then and nor I now see all of the problems people seem to have with Mormons any more than I see all of the problems people seem to have with Catholics and multitude of Protestants sects not matching their own precisely.

What is it God wants from us... to sort everyone out and then set each of other person on his right course? I really do not think so. Perhaps He gave you such a job. Jesus being the Truth knew exactly what to do and the result was that he wept for the people and was crucified.

I guess I am close in my walk with God to where the following words indicate that Lincoln was:

Lincoln told Harry C Deming, a congressman from Connecticut why he had never joined any church and why his fundamental spiritual disposition was profound:

"I have never united myself to any church, because I have found difficulty in giving my assent, without mental reservation, to the long, complicated statements of Christian doctrine which characterize their Articles of Belief and Confessions of Faith. When any church will inscribe over its altar, as its sole qualification for membership...the Savior's condensed statement of both Law and Gospel, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbor as thyself," that church will I join with all my heart and all my soul"

as per Mario M Cuomo in "Why Lincoln Matters Today More Than Ever"

from Francis B. Carpenter, "Six Months at the White House with Abraham Lincoln" (Hurd and Houghton, 1866)

Lots of churches around supposedly based on the Bible alone, they say, but lots of differences between them also it would seem in spite of what is written in the Bible. Some of them are a lot like Mormons and some of them look to me to be farther afield than the Mormons. Fortunately, it is not my job to judge them.

Is there any church group or any single man that has been right before God in every point all of the time? You and others have decided it is not the Mormons for you. Why not let each man decide for himself asking for help from God or from men as he chooses?

Do you already have all of right answers to every question according to God? I certainly do not! I keep on leaning on Him all the more...

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

 

[Prayer Warrior]

As the Lord required that who ever was a true Prophey from Him would be among the brothers of Israel, in line of Isaac, would not undo or contridict any prior revelations, would know and use the name of God, and would either fo verified miracles or prophecy!

Do they qualify?

I don’t know about Ellen White, but I have researched LDS beliefs, and I have found that some of their core doctrine is not biblical.

Here’s the problem with discussing LDS on this forum. Some members take objections to LDS doctrine as personal attacks. It’s unfortunate that this happens because we need to be able to expose unbiblical doctrines out of concern for those who are, or could become, insnared by deception.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I don’t know about Ellen White, but I have researched LDS beliefs, and I have found that some of their core doctrine is not biblical.

Here’s the problem with discussing LDS on this forum. Some members take objections to LDS doctrine as personal attacks. It’s unfortunate that this happens because we need to be able to expose unbiblical doctrines out of concern for those who are, or could become, insnared by deception.

If I say you worship a pig and are not a Christian and are a deceivor, are you ok with that?

 

[amadeus]

Mormons, JW, Sda are among thnose who claim to be Christians, yet redefine their teeological terms and give them non biblcal meanings!

Somebody undoubtedly would say the same thing about, Reformed, Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Pentecostals, and about any other group we could name. Many or all of them may say they are being led by the Holy Spirit in spite diametrically opposed beliefs. Is your set of beliefs the best one? Why is that? Do any of them admit they may be in error in part? If not, why not?

 

[JesusFan1]

Just like every other church out there.

I know of no church that is not a cykt who see themselves as only true church!

 

[JesusFan1]

Somebody undoubtedly would say the same thing about, Reformed, Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Pentecostals, and about any other group we could name. Many or all of them may say they are being led by the Holy Spirit in spite diametrically opposed beliefs. Is your set of beliefs the best one? Why is that? Do any of them admit they may be in error in part? If not, why not?

Somebody undoubtedly would say the same thing about, Reformed, Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Pentecostals, and about any other group we could name. Many or all of them may say they are being led by the Holy Spirit in spite diametrically opposed beliefs. Is your set of beliefs the best one? Why is that? Do any of them admit they may be in error in part? If not, why not?

Mormons and JW and Sda hold to different Jesus and Gospel, so this is not just family disagreements!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I know of no church that is not a cykt who see themselves as only true church!

Do you believe that your beliefs are the most correct and other people’s are wrong?

 

[JesusFan1]

Do you believe that your beliefs are the most correct and other people’s are wrong?

No, just believe that some claim to be a christian church and are not olne nased upon theology!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No, just believe that some claim to be a christian church and are not olne nased upon theology!

You believe that you are in the onl correct church then, and all others are wrong.

 

[amadeus]

Mormons and JW and Sda hold to different Jesus and Gospel, so this is not just family disagreements!

Well I am glad for your sake you are so certain... if you really are. To me it appears to be a blanket condemnation against which we are warned in the scriptures.

"He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:28-30

 

[Waiting on him]

I don’t know about Ellen White, but I have researched LDS beliefs, and I have found that some of their core doctrine is not biblical.

Here’s the problem with discussing LDS on this forum. Some members take objections to LDS doctrine as personal attacks. It’s unfortunate that this happens because we need to be able to expose unbiblical doctrines out of concern for those who are, or could become, insnared by deception.

This could apply to any religious group.