Do Joseph Smith and Ellen White fir Bibal criteria of a true Prophet?

[JesusFan1]

@Prayer Warrior , I'm going to go over one example of clarifying actual LDS Christians beliefs and sorting that from bad information. To facilitate this and cross any communication hurdles, I'll be using Protestant lingo unless otherwise noted.

The point I'll be talking about first is this:

The above quoted section is mixing up several different definitions of "church" and hence trying to compare apples and puppies. I'll talk about each definition and then compare beliefs on each point.

1) "Church" being the body of saved believers (the "invisible church", to use Protestant lingo): Protestant Christians, LDS Christians and vast vast majority of all other Christians do believe Christ being a member of the church is about welcoming Christ into your heart, accepting Him as your Lord and Savior, and following Him. This is the thing that matters most, above all others. LDS Christians readily acknowledge that there are individuals belonging to this church in non-LDS pews: that many people sitting in Protestant pews, Catholic pews, LDS pews etc belong to this church and will spending eternity dancing with God. Conversely, there are some individuals sitting in LDS pews that are only giving lip service to God and their hearts are set elseware. Both LDS Christians and other Christians believe all of the Bible verses quoted 100%.

2) The ultimate True theology: needless to say that there is one ultimate theological Truth from God. In Heaven we're not going to be having all of the theological debates like we see on this forum-- we'll know all of the Truth all of the way. And there is only one ultimate theological truth. In the mean time we're all still learning. Theology is super important, even if it's not what saves a person.

3) "Church" being the visible church - a literal on Earth organized group where Truths are preached: traditionally Christians did indeed believe in the importance of this. Catholic and Orthodox churches being millennium old examples of that belief. Protestants are more varied on this importance of literally going to church or organization beyond the local congregation. LDS Christians do believe in the importance of a literal organized visible church. It is to that definition the quotes from "Joseph Smith — History 1:19" and "D&C 1:30" are referring to. That doesn't mean that individuals are perfect (cause they ain't remotely!).

Using a specific example to further illustrate this: using definition #1, I (and other LDS Christians) readily acknowledge the salvation of a Catholic person and we are in the same church. Using definition #2: I don't believe that everything Catholicism teaches is the ultimate Truth. They have many good things taught therein, but I have some serious objections on certain points. Using definition #3: obviously I don't believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the primary literal vessel in which God is primarily doing His work, even imperfectly.

Mormonism hold that ONLY their church is the true Church, as God restored that back to Joseph Smith!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormonism hold that ONLY their church is the true Church, as God restored that back to Joseph Smith!

I literally just explained this.

Mormons must hold to what Joseph Smith, Brigham Young held as doctgrines and practices, as well as the announcements over the years from their Apostles since then!

All denominations have thier teachers and declarations.

Mormons and JW have always been seen by the Church at large as being Cults!

Actually such is largely confined to a small sub-group of Protestantism originally led by Walter Martin in the ~1960's.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The following is an excerpt from an article written by a Catholic. I'm not Catholic, and I had said that I don't know their perspective on Mormonism, but I believe this article shows that perspective, so I decided to post it in this thread.

Is Mormonism a Christian Denomination?
by Mary Kochan on Mar 09, 2012 in Apologetics, Featured, MyChurchParish.com

It might be argued that Mormons have the right to say that they are “Christians” and no one should deny what they say about themselves. It is possible, however, for us to respect their right to call themselves whatever they wish without feeling compelled to validate that claim ourselves. This is complicated by the fact that to many Catholics, Mormonism seems no more strange than the Baptist faith, or that of any other Protestant denomination. In part this is because Mormons themselves generally use the language and terminology common to (especially Protestant) Christians. In their initial approach to you, they will do all they can to hide or gloss over the distinctive beliefs of their church. Statements of Mormon belief sound so much like statements of the Christian faith that many Catholics and Protestants are quite willing to recognize Mormons as “Christians,” not merely in the world-religion sense, but in the sense in which we Catholics recognize Protestant Christians as our “separated brethren.” This is a serious error with two major consequences.

First, Christians (including Catholics) are misled into the Mormon church where they are indoctrinated in a religion which rejects the central doctrines of the Christian faith, resulting in them bringing their children up as non-Christians. Second, Christians embrace Mormons as fellow Christians instead of evangelizing them.

In order to protect Christians from this deception and to help Mormons learn the truth, we must understand how Mormon doctrine differs from the historic Christian faith that we share with Protestants. To do this, we will examine first what Mormons say, then how they define the terms they are using and how that differs from the Christian faith. Finally we provide a biblical, Christian response and suggestions for how to discuss these things with a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The Central Question: Who is God?

What Mormons will say they believe about God:

1. We believe in God the Father who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
2. We worship God the Father and pray to him in Jesus’ name.
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why the Mormon God the Father is not the Christian God the Father:

1. “God the Father” to a Mormon is not God the Father, first Person of the Holy Trinity, Whom Christians confess. He is one of many gods (D&C130: 22-23).
2. The Mormon worships God the Father because He is the god of this planet, but other planets have other gods equal to or even greater than God the Father. (Joseph Smith King Follett Discourse, 1844).
3. The Mormon “God the Father” had a father and was once a man on a planet who worshiped his own Father God. He was subsequently exalted to godhood. He has a physical, human body (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
4. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he too will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet (Ibid, p. 346,7)
5. The Mormons have a saying: “What man is, God once was; what God is, man may be” (LDS Church President Lorenzo Snow’s summation). This is polytheism.

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made the heavens and the earth; there is no other God; there never has been any other God, nor will there ever be another (Gn 1:1; Is 43;10; 44:6, 8, 24).
2. God the Father was never a man.
3. You will never be God.
4. True Christianity, like Judaism, is monotheistic. As our creed states “We believe in one God.”

Jesus: Brother of Lucifer?

Why the Mormon Jesus is not the Christian Jesus:

1. The Mormon Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer (Satan). They were both born in heaven by God the Father’s union with one of his many spirit wives (Mormon Doctrine pp 192, 516; Ensign Magazine June, 1986, p 25)
2. According to Mormon teaching, when it was time for Jesus to come down to earth, God the Father sent down one of his spirit wives from heaven to be born as a woman, Mary. Then he came down and had physical, marital relations with her in order for her to give birth to a human body inhabited by Jesus coming from heaven. This is a denial of the Virgin Birth (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; Orson Pratt, The Seer, Oct. 1853, p. 158).

Christian answer:

1. Since God the Father does not have a physical human body, He did not impregnate Mary by a physical union (2 Chr 6:18; Jn 4:24).
2. Jesus became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary (Mt 1:23; Lk 2:30-35).
3. God the Father does not have a wife or wives in heaven.
4. Jesus is the eternally-begotten Son of God, one in being with the Father (Jn 1:1-18).
5. He is not the older brother of Lucifer.
6. He is the older brother, as well as Lord and God, of those born again by water and Spirit, God’s adopted children (Jn 3:3-17; Rom 8:14-17, 29).

Why the Mormon doctrine of man is not the Christian doctrine of man:

1. According to Mormonism, all human beings existed as spirit children of God and his wife in heaven before coming to earth (Pre-Mortal Life - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki).
2. They grow to spirit “adulthood” serving God (even fighting in heavenly battles), and are then sent to earth to be babies of human parents (ibid).
3. The earthly life is their opportunity to become gods themselves, like their heavenly Father, by “obeying the laws of the Gospel” just as the god of this planet once did (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.69 – p.70)

Christian answer:

1. There is no biblical support for the idea that human beings were spirit children of God in heaven before coming to earth.
2. Jesus was unique in being a human being with a pre-human existence (Jn 1:18; 3:13, 31; 8:23, 58).
3. Jesus took on human nature at the Incarnation. God became man — not the other way around. His human nature was glorified at His Resurrection.
4. We will be like God in that we will have the same kind of glorified human nature which Jesus possesses, not in becoming gods and ruling planets ourselves (1 Jn 3:3; Rom 8:22, Phil 3:20-21).
5. While heaven is the presence of God with unfettered communion, the distinction between God and creatures remains (Rv 5:13, 14).

(Continued in next post)

 

[Prayer Warrior]

(Continued from previous post)

What is Salvation?

What Mormons will say they believe about salvation:

1. All are redeemed by the Savior’s self-sacrifice, from the consequences of the fall.
2. Immortality comes as a free gift, by the grace of God alone, without works.
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why Mormon salvation is not Christian salvation:

1. According to Mormonism, everyone and everything — all of creation — has been redeemed and therefore “saved” (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)
2. This salvation gains, for all human beings, a physical resurrection only — not eternal life. Eternal life is not “salvation”; it is “exaltation” (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.9).
3. If you ask a Mormon if he is saved (per Evangelical parlance), he will answer yes.
4. If you ask him if he believes you are saved, he will answer yes. This confuses Christians who do not understand that being “saved” and gaining “eternal life” are not the same thing in Mormon thinking (D&C 14:7; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 237, 376-377, 670).
5. It is further confused by the Mormon distinction between “immortality” (salvation to physical resurrection) and “eternal life” (exaltation to godhood).
6. The Mormons have a saying: “Salvation without exaltation is damnation.”
7. Therefore, a Mormon can, with a straight face, tell you he believes you are “saved,” while he also believes you are damned! (Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-669).

Christian answer:

1. We define salvation according to what we are saved from. We are saved from sin and from the wages of sin — death.
2. To be saved from sin is to be justified and sanctified. To be saved from death is to receive eternal life (Rom 6:22, 23).
3. Being saved, justified, sanctified and given eternal life by the grace of God are all things which are interconnected in the Scriptures. There is no biblical basis for separating them (Rom 5).
4. Seeking exaltation is contrary to the spirit of Christ. We are rather to humble ourselves, recognize our sinfulness and call upon the Lord for mercy and forgiveness (Js 4:6-10).

Why the Mormon hope is not the Christian hope:

1. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet. This is “exaltation,” and depends upon the Mormon “Plan of Eternal Progression” (Joseph Fielding Smith ed, Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-48, The Ensign, Nov. 1975, 80).
2. The hope of Mormon females depends upon their being married, in a temple ceremony, to a Mormon male who achieves exaltation (LDS.org lesson for young women; Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 291).
3. Mormon women married to non-Mormons (“Gentiles”) can arrange for a “temple sealing” (marriage by proxy) to a Mormon male after their death. This is to assure that in eternity they are considered to have been married to and produced their children from a Mormon husband so that they and their children can be exalted.
4. Mormon males expect to produce offspring in heaven with their mate(s), offspring who will subsequently be sent to populate their planet and achieve their own exaltation to godhood and so on and so on…

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made man for Himself and in His image to be in communion with God and enter into the love of the Holy Trinity.
2. When man fell into sin and marred the image of God in his own being, the second person of the Trinity became incarnate — taking human nature to Himself.
3. He then did what He could not do in the form of God: He died to save us from sin and death, so that we could come back into communion with God and share the love of the Holy Trinity. Our hope is to be with God, not to be God (Gn 1-3; Phil 2:5-11).

Source: Is Mormonism a Christian Denomination?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The following is an excerpt is from an article written by a Catholic. I'm not a Catholic, and I had said that I don't know their perspective on Mormonism, but I believe this article shows that perspective, so I decided to include it in this thread.

Is Mormonism a Christian Denomination?
by Mary Kochan on Mar 09, 2012 in Apologetics, Featured, MyChurchParish.com

It might be argued that Mormons have the right to say that they are “Christians” and no one should deny what they say about themselves. It is possible, however, for us to respect their right to call themselves whatever they wish without feeling compelled to validate that claim ourselves. This is complicated by the fact that to many Catholics, Mormonism seems no more strange than the Baptist faith, or that of any other Protestant denomination. In part this is because Mormons themselves generally use the language and terminology common to (especially Protestant) Christians. In their initial approach to you, they will do all they can to hide or gloss over the distinctive beliefs of their church. Statements of Mormon belief sound so much like statements of the Christian faith that many Catholics and Protestants are quite willing to recognize Mormons as “Christians,” not merely in the world-religion sense, but in the sense in which we Catholics recognize Protestant Christians as our “separated brethren.” This is a serious error with two major consequences.

First, Christians (including Catholics) are misled into the Mormon church where they are indoctrinated in a religion which rejects the central doctrines of the Christian faith, resulting in them bringing their children up as non-Christians. Second, Christians embrace Mormons as fellow Christians instead of evangelizing them.

In order to protect Christians from this deception and to help Mormons learn the truth, we must understand how Mormon doctrine differs from the historic Christian faith that we share with Protestants. To do this, we will examine first what Mormons say, then how they define the terms they are using and how that differs from the Christian faith. Finally we provide a biblical, Christian response and suggestions for how to discuss these things with a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The Central Question: Who is God?

What Mormons will say they believe about God:

1. We believe in God the Father who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
2. We worship God the Father and pray to him in Jesus’ name.
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why the Mormon God the Father is not the Christian God the Father:

1. “God the Father” to a Mormon is not God the Father, first Person of the Holy Trinity, Whom Christians confess. He is one of many gods (D&C130: 22-23).
2. The Mormon worships God the Father because He is the god of this planet, but other planets have other gods equal to or even greater than God the Father. (Joseph Smith King Follett Discourse, 1844).
3. The Mormon “God the Father” had a father and was once a man on a planet who worshiped his own Father God. He was subsequently exalted to godhood. He has a physical, human body (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
4. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he too will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet (Ibid, p. 346,7)
5. The Mormons have a saying: “What man is, God once was; what God is, man may be” (LDS Church President Lorenzo Snow’s summation). This is polytheism.

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made the heavens and the earth; there is no other God; there never has been any other God, nor will there ever be another (Gn 1:1; Is 43;10; 44:6, 8, 24).
2. God the Father was never a man.
3. You will never be God.
4. True Christianity, like Judaism, is monotheistic. As our creed states “We believe in one God.”

Jesus: Brother of Lucifer?

Why the Mormon Jesus is not the Christian Jesus:

1. The Mormon Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer (Satan). They were both born in heaven by God the Father’s union with one of his many spirit wives (Mormon Doctrine pp 192, 516; Ensign Magazine June, 1986, p 25)
2. According to Mormon teaching, when it was time for Jesus to come down to earth, God the Father sent down one of his spirit wives from heaven to be born as a woman, Mary. Then he came down and had physical, marital relations with her in order for her to give birth to a human body inhabited by Jesus coming from heaven. This is a denial of the Virgin Birth (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; Orson Pratt, The Seer, Oct. 1853, p. 158).

Christian answer:

1. Since God the Father does not have a physical human body, He did not impregnate Mary by a physical union (2 Chr 6:18; Jn 4:24).
2. Jesus became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary (Mt 1:23; Lk 2:30-35).
3. God the Father does not have a wife or wives in heaven.
4. Jesus is the eternally-begotten Son of God, one in being with the Father (Jn 1:1-18).
5. He is not the older brother of Lucifer.
6. He is the older brother, as well as Lord and God, of those born again by water and Spirit, God’s adopted children (Jn 3:3-17; Rom 8:14-17, 29).

Why the Mormon doctrine of man is not the Christian doctrine of man:

1. According to Mormonism, all human beings existed as spirit children of God and his wife in heaven before coming to earth (Pre-Mortal Life - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki).
2. They grow to spirit “adulthood” serving God (even fighting in heavenly battles), and are then sent to earth to be babies of human parents (ibid).
3. The earthly life is their opportunity to become gods themselves, like their heavenly Father, by “obeying the laws of the Gospel” just as the god of this planet once did (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.69 – p.70)

Christian answer:

1. There is no biblical support for the idea that human beings were spirit children of God in heaven before coming to earth.
2. Jesus was unique in being a human being with a pre-human existence (Jn 1:18; 3:13, 31; 8:23, 58).
3. Jesus took on human nature at the Incarnation. God became man — not the other way around. His human nature was glorified at His Resurrection.
4. We will be like God in that we will have the same kind of glorified human nature which Jesus possesses, not in becoming gods and ruling planets ourselves (1 Jn 3:3; Rom 8:22, Phil 3:20-21).
5. While heaven is the presence of God with unfettered communion, the distinction between God and creatures remains (Rv 5:13, 14).

(Continued in next post)

Rather than rote copy and pasting other people’s words, would you care to have a conversation, such as responding to my post about the different definitions of “church”?

 

[amadeus]

We are not to judge people by their labels but we are to judge whether they teach the truth. We can't tell anything about a person's beliefs when he is a Protestant because there is a wide range of beliefs among those who bear that label; when someone is a Mormon we can tell more about his beliefs because the Mormon church has a set of beliefs that all its members are required to adhere to.

You are looking at the group. I am looking at the individual, which I believe is what God does. God does not condemn a person because of what church group he does or does not belong to... What I have seen on this forum and others as well as offline is judgment against the group and sometimes against individuals because someone see or believes he see wrong with the group.

All of us are liars unless we have everything exactly right before God in what we say and do all the time:

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;.." Rom 3:4

The lies may be not intentional, but if we teach any doctrine or belief that according to God is in error, it is a lie nevertheless. What man other than Jesus had everything exactly right according to his knowledge? This is why we must live by faith... because our knowledge is incomplete or faulty. If we are working with God allowing Him to work in us, then we are on the approach but until we have arrived...?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Rather than rote copy and pasting other people’s words, would you care to have a conversation, such as responding to my post about the different definitions of “church”?

Sorry, Jane, but you and I have had many conversations. Right now I don't have time to go back and forth with you, especially covering things we've already covered in other threads. I'm posting info. As I said before, it's up to each individual to check out this info and decide for themselves as they have a right to do.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Sorry, Jane, but you and I have had many conversations. Right now I don't have time to go back and forth with you, especially covering things we've already covered in other threads. I'm posting info. As I said before, it's up to each individual to check out this info and decide for themselves as they have a right to do.

You have time to paste grissly inaccurate info, but not enough to talk to actual practionars explaining things and responding?

That post took me 45 minutes to write (on vacation nonetheless), reaching out out specifically to you, and ...?

 

[amadeus]

We are commanded to fight for the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, to point out wrong doctrines and especially wrong Jesus and Gospels!

The biggest battles, the greatest fights that need to be fought are within ourselves along with the Holy Spirit so we may receive the promises for overcomers. Jesus overcame the world, but who among us has? Jesus overcame the world of temptations in his own flesh.

Jesus paid the price for us and the power of God through the Holy Spirit is now available to every one of us so that we can also be overcomers, but it seems to me that people often spend more time sometimes attacking what they believe are the errors of others than overcoming the errors in themselves:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matt 7:1-5

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:26-27

Christ in us, the hope of glory! [from Col 1:27]

And to overcomers?

"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

That is only one promise. In Revelation chapter 2 and 3 there are 7 promises to overcomers. But no man can overcome alone. No one who regularly quenches the Holy Spirit will be an overcomer.

Why should we be working on the mote we think we see in someone else's eye, when our own vision is impaired?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly;.." I Cor 13:12

 

[amadeus]

That is a matter of Interpretation.
I could say the same thing for various Protestant denominations.

I would certainly say the same thing about them... the Protestant denominations...that is. The best one I personally encountered over the years was my last one and it also has some serious flaws. This is because of men who are flawed. If we decide not to attend anywhere there are flaws, we will not be attending anywhere at all. For some people this may works as they serve God, but many people, I believe, need a closer connection through people. They have to judge that for themselves, but some people believe apparently that they are best judges for others too...!

 

[amadeus]

Mormons and JW have always been seen by the Church at large as being Cults!

The 'church' at large? Is that how we are to determine that someone is not someone to fellowship with...? The church at large includes how many different denominations? What are the essential on which everyone agrees that require the exclusions of some that 'they' have decided are 'cults' to be avoided?

When Jesus came there were numerous sects all supposedly following the laws God gave to Moses... but they also did not agree with each other. Only when Jesus came along did they join together to fight against Him. Are you Jesus? If not then how can you be certain that what you believe it right while the beliefs of anyone called Mormon or JW is necessarily in error?

 

[JesusFan1]

(Continued from previous post)

What is Salvation?

What Mormons will say they believe about salvation:

1. All are redeemed by the Savior’s self-sacrifice, from the consequences of the fall.
2. Immortality comes as a free gift, by the grace of God alone, without works.
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why Mormon salvation is not Christian salvation:

1. According to Mormonism, everyone and everything — all of creation — has been redeemed and therefore “saved” (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)
2. This salvation gains, for all human beings, a physical resurrection only — not eternal life. Eternal life is not “salvation”; it is “exaltation” (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.9).
3. If you ask a Mormon if he is saved (per Evangelical parlance), he will answer yes.
4. If you ask him if he believes you are saved, he will answer yes. This confuses Christians who do not understand that being “saved” and gaining “eternal life” are not the same thing in Mormon thinking (D&C 14:7; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 237, 376-377, 670).
5. It is further confused by the Mormon distinction between “immortality” (salvation to physical resurrection) and “eternal life” (exaltation to godhood).
6. The Mormons have a saying: “Salvation without exaltation is damnation.”
7. Therefore, a Mormon can, with a straight face, tell you he believes you are “saved,” while he also believes you are damned! (Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-669).

Christian answer:

1. We define salvation according to what we are saved from. We are saved from sin and from the wages of sin — death.
2. To be saved from sin is to be justified and sanctified. To be saved from death is to receive eternal life (Rom 6:22, 23).
3. Being saved, justified, sanctified and given eternal life by the grace of God are all things which are interconnected in the Scriptures. There is no biblical basis for separating them (Rom 5).
4. Seeking exaltation is contrary to the spirit of Christ. We are rather to humble ourselves, recognize our sinfulness and call upon the Lord for mercy and forgiveness (Js 4:6-10).

Why the Mormon hope is not the Christian hope:

1. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet. This is “exaltation,” and depends upon the Mormon “Plan of Eternal Progression” (Joseph Fielding Smith ed, Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-48, The Ensign, Nov. 1975, 80).
2. The hope of Mormon females depends upon their being married, in a temple ceremony, to a Mormon male who achieves exaltation (LDS.org lesson for young women; Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 291).
3. Mormon women married to non-Mormons (“Gentiles”) can arrange for a “temple sealing” (marriage by proxy) to a Mormon male after their death. This is to assure that in eternity they are considered to have been married to and produced their children from a Mormon husband so that they and their children can be exalted.
4. Mormon males expect to produce offspring in heaven with their mate(s), offspring who will subsequently be sent to populate their planet and achieve their own exaltation to godhood and so on and so on…

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made man for Himself and in His image to be in communion with God and enter into the love of the Holy Trinity.
2. When man fell into sin and marred the image of God in his own being, the second person of the Trinity became incarnate — taking human nature to Himself.
3. He then did what He could not do in the form of God: He died to save us from sin and death, so that we could come back into communion with God and share the love of the Holy Trinity. Our hope is to be with God, not to be God (Gn 1-3; Phil 2:5-11).

Source: Is Mormonism a Christian Denomination?

Morminism is a bbilical Cult!

 

[JesusFan1]

The 'church' at large? Is that how we are to determine that someone is not someone to fellowship with...? The church at large includes how many different denominations? What are the essential on which everyone agrees that require the exclusions of some that 'they' have decided are 'cults' to be avoided?

When Jesus came there numerous sects all supposedly following the laws God gave to Moses... but they also did not agree with each other. Only when Jesus came along did they join together to fight against Him. Are you Jesus? If not then how can you be certain that what you believe it right while the beliefs of anyone called Mormon or JW is necessarily in error?

Walter Martin , and others experts on the Cults have always included in that categoty!

 

[JesusFan1]

I would certainly say the same thing about them... the Protestant denominations...that is. The best one I personally encountered over the years was my last one and it also has some serious flaws. This is because of men who are flawed. If we decide not to attend anywhere there are flaws, we will not be attending anywhere at all. For some people this may works as they serve God, but many people, I believe, need a closer connection through people. They have to judge that for themselves, but some people believe apparently that they are best judges for others too...!

BIG diufference is that Mormons hold to another jesus and another Gospel!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You have time to paste grissly inaccurate info, but not enough to talk to actual practionars explaining things and responding?

This has been one problem I've had with our discussions. In the "What Mormons Believe..." thread, I asked specific questions about Mormon beliefs which you did not answer. So, please stop making it sound like I have not tried to have discussions with you. This is not the truth at all.

You are free to refute anything I say. I have a right to post about what I see as unbiblical Mormon doctrine, and you have a right to refute it.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This has been one problem I've had with our discussions. In the "What Mormons Believe..." thread, I asked specific questions about Mormon beliefs which you did not answer. So, please stop making it sound like I have not tried to have discussions with you. This is not the truth at all.

You are free to refute anything I say. I have a right to post about what I see as unbiblical Mormon doctrine, and you have a right to refute it.

I try really hard to address every point (or at least bite sized chunks). If I missed one, I apologize. Please let me know which and I shall address it.

As to refuting / clarifying things, an example of that is my post explaining the different definitions of “church “ and the quotes being used.

 

[amadeus]

Walter Martin , and others experts on the Cults have always included in that categoty!

Sorry I don't have a clue as to who Walter Martin is. I guess I am strange because like Jesus I never name anyone as being part of a cult. If they are wrong and they're hungry for the right things they will be filled. If they are wrong and don't care there is no reason to tell them they are condemned.

 

[amadeus]

BIG diufference is that Mormons hold to another jesus and another Gospel!

Someone apparently told you that because you have given me no reason to believe you are more right than someone talking for the other side. I see no more error in their official doctrines than I do in the doctrines of some Protestants sects.

It is still not my job to decide.

Sometimes it is best to remain silent as Jesus did. He knew who had a good heart toward God whereas we certainly many times do not. What is wrong with leaving it in God's very capable hands?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Someone apparently told you that because you have given me no reason to believe you are more right than someone talking for the other side. I see no more error in their official doctrines than I do in the doctrines of some Protestants sects.

It is still not my job to decide.

Sometimes it is best to remain silent as Jesus did. He knew who had a good heart toward God whereas we certainly many times do not. What is wrong with leaving it in God's very capable hands?

Yes, Christ’s hands are most capable, and He alone is our Judge.

 

[JesusFan1]

Sorry I don't have a clue as to who Walter Martin is. I guess I am strange because like Jesus I never name anyone as being part of a cult. If they are wrong and they're hungry for the right things they will be filled. If they are wrong and don't care there is no reason to tell them they are condemned.

He was the foremost Christikan expert on the Cults!