Do Not Know The Hour

[Davy]

If you are on the false Pre-trib Rapture theory, then you probably won't like this post.

One of the ideas that the false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory teaches is that no man knows the day or hour of Lord Jesus Christ's coming. They are right on that, because Lord Jesus said it...

Matt 24:42
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
KJV

... and that is where Pre-trib stops with that idea, as if we are not even to think about the day of Christ's future return as written. That's all you get with their teaching, they definitely do NOT want you to understand that part where Jesus commanded us to 'watch'.

Lord Jesus actually CONTINUES this subject of watching so as to know when the time of His coming draws near...

Matt 24:43-47
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

There were 4 watches in the night per The Bible; that's what Jesus is pointing to. In Revelation 16:15 He said He comes "as a thief", so that's what He is pointing to with the goodman being on watch for the thief breaking in.

Does that command to 'watch' mean knowing the day and hour? Nope! We don't know in what 'watch' He will come. However, we are... to be WATCHING. Watching what?

In Christ's Olivet discourse where these verses appear, Jesus gave 7 main Signs of the end the Church is to be watching leading up to His coming. Now of course the Pre-trib Rapture folks do not... want you to know those Signs and be watching them. Instead, they just tell you to "be ready" and "watch"; they do not show you the Signs to be watching. They simply don't know.

Instead... the Pre-trib Rapture school teaches you that since no one can know the day or hour of Christ's coming, to just be ready. In other words, they insinuate that we cannot 'watch', because no one can know the 'hour'! In their case, Lord Jesus might as well not even given those Signs of the end for us to be watching, because those on a pre-trib rapture doctrine simply are NOT interested.


44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
KJV

Jesus is saying those who 'watch', as He commanded, will be blessed when He comes, because He will find them giving that "meat in due season" to their servants. What's that "meat"? It is the "strong meat" understanding in God's written Word (Hebrews 5). Those Signs Jesus gave there in Matthew 24, those are "strong meat", because IF... you know them, then you know the events of the end leading up to His return to be watching for, and KNOWING THEM WILL HELP PREVENT YOU FROM BEING DECEIVED BY THE COMING FALSE-MESSIAH THAT COMES FIRST.

In Revelation 3, Jesus showed the Church is... supposed to have some kind of idea about the hour of His coming...

Rev 3:2-3
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
KJV

If we don't 'watch', then He will come upon us "as a thief", and we won't know what hour He comes??? I thought He said in Matthew 24 that no man knows the hour of His coming? Is this a Scripture error in translation, or in the Greek texts? No. But it sounds like a contradiction to Matthew 24:42 doesn't it? It is not. Lord Jesus is merely pointing out that IF you know the Signs He gave us to be 'watching', then we can know the 'season' of His coming.

Did you notice Jesus' coming is on the 7th trumpet of Revelation 11? We are told all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and The Son on that 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe. What happens just prior to that 7th trumpet? God's two witnesses who were killed and their dead bodies left laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days suddenly arise on the end of the 6th trumpet leading directly to the sounding of the 7th trumpet. Can you figure that out?


So the next time someone stuck on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory says to you, "watch and be ready, because no man knows the day or the hour", then ask them simply, "Watch what?" They don't know what Jesus commanded to 'watch', so you'll likely get a big question mark response, or some false pre-trib rapture tirade from men's doctrines, because that's about all they know about the latter days.

 

[Keraz]

No one knows the Day?
When I talk with Christian people, saying about how my studies in the prophetic Word lead me to believe that there is coming an imminent judgement of all mankind and by using times given to us in scripture with simple mathematics, we can know when this will happen, then very often they say: ‘no one knows the Day or the hour’. My reply to them is; ‘You have just opened yourself up to the accusation of quoting verses out of context’.

I ask them to read Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words will never pass away. Yet about that Day and hour, no one knows, not the angels, not the Son, no one but the Father alone.

This passage refers to the time that the ‘heaven and earth will pass away’, and as we read in Revelation 20 and Isaiah 65:17, that is the time at the end of the Millennium, ‘when all things are made new’. It is the final wrap up of God’s creation, ‘the victor’s heritage and the second death of all those who refused to obey Him’.

People who say that we cannot know God’s plans for our time, are those who have found Bible prophecy just too difficult to comprehend or to reconcile with teachings and theories they have come to believe. Some simply do not want to know; which is a very poor attitude that shows a moral laziness. The prophet Daniel 12:9-10, tells us the prophecies are to be kept secret until the time of the end, but there will be some wise leaders who will understand.

We are very close to that time, known by the time periods given us and simply by the current state of the world. The promise of God is that anyone who makes the effort with an open mind and in faith and prayer, then God will reveal His plan to them. You deny these scriptures if you say: ‘No one knows the Day’:

Isaiah 48:16 Draw near to Me and hear this: From the beginning, I have never spoken in secret, I will be there at the time of fulfilment.

Isaiah 46:9-10 I am God, there is none like Me. From the beginning, I reveal the end.

Amos 3:7 Indeed the Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to the prophets.

Revelation 1:1 This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, to show His servants what must soon take place.

Ezekiel 12:25 The Lord says to Judah [the Jewish people] You rebellious people, what I threaten will be done within your lifetime. Luke 21:31-32 When you see these signs you will know the Kingdom is near. Those people will not pass away before it all happens.

A lifetime: Three score and ten = 70 to 80 years. Judah came back to the Land in May 1948, so sometime before May 2028, the Lord will act.

Ezekiel 12:19-20 The Lord says to the people of Jerusalem in the Land of Israel: [the Jewish people in the State of Israel] You will eat and drink in fear and horror because of your sins and ungodliness and the Land will become barren and empty. The towns will be deserted and the land will be a wasteland. [Not fulfilled as yet]

1 Thess. 5:1-6... the Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly, while they are saying: all is peaceful, all secure, then sudden destruction is upon them and there is no escape. But you, friends, are not in the dark that Day will not surprise you.

‘they, them’, refers to the godless peoples, but it also applies to those who have failed to discern the prophetic Word, who will be surprised and shocked by this event.

‘all peaceful, all secure’, As is basically the situation now. [Ukraine excepted]

Destruction is upon them’, The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied and described more than 100 times throughout the Bible, as a devastating fire, a sunstrike that will affect the whole world. Most people will survive, but of all the Middle Eastern area, only a remnant in Jerusalem. Then the rest of the prophecies will unfold.

 

[Timtofly]

Did you notice Jesus' coming is on the 7th trumpet of Revelation 11? We are told all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and The Son on that 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe. What happens just prior to that 7th trumpet? God's two witnesses who were killed and their dead bodies left laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days suddenly arise on the end of the 6th trumpet leading directly to the sounding of the 7th trumpet. Can you figure that out?

You are totally off on your Trumpets. After the 6th Trumpet which is the 2nd woe, John is the eye witness to 7 Thunders. Revelation 10:1-4

"And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

Have you totally forgotten that between the 6th and 7th Trumpet there are 7 Thunders? Those 2 witnesses are not during the 6th Trumpet at all, nor even during the 7 Thunders. The 6th Trumpet was declared complete in Revelation 9. Revelation 11:14 does not say the 6th Trumpet just finished.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

This verse just brings us back to the Narrative after the parenthetical announcement of the 7th Trumpet. You have to place the 7 Thunders as being complete even before the 7th Trumpet is introduced. The introduction of the 7th Trumpet events is one parenthetical. Revelation 12 is the other parenthetical. So the parenthetical starts in Revelation 10:5 after the 7 Thunders:

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

This whole parenthetical is explaining what will happen after the 7th Trumpet sounds, not even a part of the 6th Trumpet at all. The 6th Trumpet was settled before the 7 Thunders.

I think we are to watch out for those who do not even give a complete accounting of the book of Revelation and skip over chunks of it to prove an erroneous point.

This parenthetical proves the Temple and throne were already in Jerusalem before the 7th Trumpet. John was told not to measure the Outer Court because of a future 42 months. Sound familiar? Revelation 13:5. The same 42 months, and what takes place in these 42 months?

"forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days"

According to Google, 42 months is 1277.5 days. The witnesses are given 1260 days. The 7th Trumpet Starts on a Sunday and after 3.5 days, the week is split, leaving 3.5 days. The 2 witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days. So that leaves 1274 of the 42 months. So about 14 days after Satan sets up control, the 2 witnesses start harassing those with the mark of the beast.

Yes at the 7th Trumpet all power is supposed to be given to Christ the Prince. Yet we have Daniel 9 and Revelation 13 claim Satan is given all the controls. Then you claim the battle of Armageddon 42 months later is the Second Coming? The throne and Temple were already set up over 42 months prior. The 7th Trumpet already sounded 42 months prior to Armageddon. You all are way over 42 months late of the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Trumpet is not even the Second Coming. The 6th Seal is before the 7th Seal and before the 1st Trumpet. So you can try to explain when these 7 important signs happen like 1992 years of tribulations and persecution, with many antichrists. The birth of Israel as a nation. The first 4 seals, that seem to culminate in war, and 25% of humanity ceased to live in Adam's flesh and blood. These are important things to watch for. These are listed in Scripture. Not some Hollywood production about a one world government and some superhuman AC. Satan has deceived the whole world with science and no one wants to even talk about that. That would be under the conspiracy forum.

So the next time someone stuck on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory says to you, "watch and be ready, because no man knows the day or the hour", then ask them simply, "Watch what?" They don't know what Jesus commanded to 'watch', so you'll likely get a big question mark response, or some false pre-trib rapture tirade from men's doctrines, because that's about all they know about the latter days.

We are to watch for Jesus. Taking your eyes off the prize and looking at trinkets along the way is not watching.

 

[Davy]

You are totally off on your Trumpets. After the 6th Trumpet which is the 2nd woe, John is the eye witness to 7 Thunders. Revelation 10:1-4

You haven't understood about Revelation 10 either, which is a parenthetical Chapter. And the thunders, what happens first in nature, the thunder or the lightning? Lightning happens first, so the 7 thunders idea is actually a Message that when they sound, IT'S ALL OVER. This is why in the next verses we are told there shall be time no longer, and that when the 7th trumpet sounds, all is fulfilled (regarding this world) which God gave to His Old Testament prophets. Thus Revelation 10 represents 'completion', and FUTURE FORWARD VIEW, which is why it is considered a 'parenthetical' Chapter (i.e., like a pause to give detail).

 

[Timtofly]

You haven't understood about Revelation 10 either, which is a parenthetical Chapter. And the thunders, what happens first in nature, the thunder or the lightning? Lightning happens first, so the 7 thunders idea is actually a Message that when they sound, IT'S ALL OVER. This is why in the next verses we are told there shall be time no longer, and that when the 7th trumpet sounds, all is fulfilled (regarding this world) which God gave to His Old Testament prophets. Thus Revelation 10 represents 'completion', and FUTURE FORWARD VIEW, which is why it is considered a 'parenthetical' Chapter (i.e., like a pause to give detail).

The 7 Thunders will sound just like the Trumpets sound. They are voices that are heard, just like the angels sounding the Trumpets are voices heard. The 7 Thunders will sound just like the Trumpets with their own set of judgments. They are not "parenthetical ghost".

I thought you were not into numerology? Are you saying God inspired the chapter breaks after the dark ages? How about chapter 13?

 

[dismas]

You are totally off on your Trumpets. After the 6th Trumpet which is the 2nd woe, John is the eye witness to 7 Thunders. Revelation 10:1-4

"And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

Have you totally forgotten that between the 6th and 7th Trumpet there are 7 Thunders? Those 2 witnesses are not during the 6th Trumpet at all, nor even during the 7 Thunders. The 6th Trumpet was declared complete in Revelation 9. Revelation 11:14 does not say the 6th Trumpet just finished.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

This verse just brings us back to the Narrative after the parenthetical announcement of the 7th Trumpet. You have to place the 7 Thunders as being complete even before the 7th Trumpet is introduced. The introduction of the 7th Trumpet events is one parenthetical. Revelation 12 is the other parenthetical. So the parenthetical starts in Revelation 10:5 after the 7 Thunders:

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:




This parenthetical proves the Temple and throne were already in Jerusalem before the 7th Trumpet. John was told not to measure the Outer Court because of a future 42 months. Sound familiar? Revelation 13:5. The same 42 months, and what takes place in these 42 months?

"forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days"

According to Google, 42 months is 1277.5 days. The witnesses are given 1260 days. The 7th Trumpet Starts on a Sunday and after 3.5 days, the week is split, leaving 3.5 days. The 2 witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days. So that leaves 1274 of the 42 months. So about 14 days after Satan sets up control, the 2 witnesses start harassing those with the mark of the beast.

Yes at the 7th Trumpet all power is supposed to be given to Christ the Prince. Yet we have Daniel 9 and Revelation 13 claim Satan is given all the controls. Then you claim the battle of Armageddon 42 months later is the Second Coming? The throne and Temple were already set up over 42 months prior. The 7th Trumpet already sounded 42 months prior to Armageddon. You all are way over 42 months late of the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Trumpet is not even the Second Coming. The 6th Seal is before the 7th Seal and before the 1st Trumpet. So you can try to explain when these 7 important signs happen like 1992 years of tribulations and persecution, with many antichrists. The birth of Israel as a nation. The first 4 seals, that seem to culminate in war, and 25% of humanity ceased to live in Adam's flesh and blood. These are important things to watch for. These are listed in Scripture. Not some Hollywood production about a one world government and some superhuman AC. Satan has deceived the whole world with science and no one wants to even talk about that. That would be under the conspiracy forum.


We are to watch for Jesus. Taking your eyes off the prize and looking at trinkets along the way is not watching.

All the woes are sequential: 5th Trumpet then 6th Trumpet then 7th Trumpet. Between Revelation 9:12's 'the 1st woe has passed' and Revelation 11:14's 'the 2nd woe has passed', there is no parenthetical chapters.

The 7 thunders are indicating that the 'flood' has come (meaning the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet) (same flood as in Dan 9:26).

Psalm 93

3 The floodwaters have risen, O LORD; the rivers have raised their voice;
the seas lift up their pounding waves. 4 Above the roar of many waters—
the mighty breakers of the sea—the LORD on high is majestic.

Gen 7:24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

Gen 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded.

Gen 9:8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you— the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you— every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.

After the 'flood' is the 'covenant' (same flood as in Dan 9:26 & same covenant as in Dan 9:27). That's why there is the rainbow in Rev 10:1.

There is the 6th Trumpet war and then the 2 witnesses start. The reason it says 1260 days & 42 months is that 42 Bible months are 1239 days (29.5 days x 42 = 1239) (not 1278 days as in 42 solar months).

Thus we have Daniel 10:12-13's 'great war' that lasts for 21 days. We get the 21 days by subtracting 1260 days from 1239 days. So, whether we start from the beginning of the war or its conclusion with peace covenant, we have 1260 days or 42 months.

Sukkot, 15th of Tishri, is the start of the Trumpets after the faithful are sheltered from the start of the 'great tribulation' (compare Revelation 7 with Leviticus 23:39-43). This is the start of the 'woman' going into the wilderness and the same as Matt 24's 'let those in Judea flee' when they see the abomination armies surrounding Jerusalem.

Shushan Purim, 15th of Adar, is the end of the 5 months of the 'flood'. Purim celebrates the destruction of their Persian enemies (of which they are part of the coalition of Gog). This is the Matt 24 'winter Sabbath' start of the great tribulation of the 6th Trumpet. In Daniel 10:20, the 21 day war indicates that the Persians are defeated and then the ruler of Greece comes (Dan 8 Little Horn presumably). (It's a moot point whether this 21 days is at the beginning or the end of the 'flood'.) This is where the peace covenant comes, after the 6th Trumpet war and is why the 2 witnesses are warning people that this messiah who defeated the Persians (Gog) is going to break the new covenant at the 7th Trumpet.

 

[Timtofly]

There is the 6th Trumpet war and then the 2 witnesses start. The reason it says 1260 days & 42 months is that 42 Bible months are 1239 days (29.5 days x 42 = 1239) (not 1278 days as in 42 solar months).

I said the 2 witnesses start after the 6th Trumpet. The poster I quoted said they died at the end of the 6th Trumpet woe.

No!

They are not back to back to back woes. Between the 2nd and 3rd woe are 7 Thunders. They involve separate judgments just like the Trumpets did. They will have events just like the Trumpets did. Just because John could not include them in the text, does not mean they will not happen. It just means no one will know the details, until God lets humans know the details.

Those 3 woes involve Satan and his angels. Jude 1:6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

That release of these angels are the 3 woes against humanity. They are let out of the pit in the 5th Trumpet. They are allowed to kill in the 6th Trumpet. At the 7th Trumpet they have attacked heaven itself. In Revelation 12:7-9

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

The third woe is them coming back to earth and tormenting again for 42 more months. Unless you think Revelation 17 and 18 is an utopia set up by Satan?

Does it make a difference if the 2 witnesses start 21 days prior to the 7th Trumpet or 14 days after Satan is given 42 months of full control? The point was that the 2 witnesses give their judgment during the 42 months that lead up to Armageddon. They are killed 3.5 days before Armageddon. They lay in the streets dead while the 7 vials are being poured out to prepare for the war at Armageddon.

 

[Davy]

Have you totally forgotten that between the 6th and 7th Trumpet there are 7 Thunders? Those 2 witnesses are not during the 6th Trumpet at all, nor even during the 7 Thunders. The 6th Trumpet was declared complete in Revelation 9. Revelation 11:14 does not say the 6th Trumpet just finished.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

This verse just brings us back to the Narrative after the parenthetical announcement of the 7th Trumpet. You have to place the 7 Thunders as being complete even before the 7th Trumpet is introduced. The introduction of the 7th Trumpet events is one parenthetical. Revelation 12 is the other parenthetical. So the parenthetical starts in Revelation 10:5 after the 7 Thunders:

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
....

You're trying put the events happening in the order they are written again. Can't do that. The 7th Trumpet is the SAME time as the 7th Vial, which means the "day of the Lord". THAT... is the day Jesus returns to gather His Church.

But what you have been wrongly taught to do, is to try and add... another coming of Jesus to pull out His Church prior to the great tribulation. There is ONLY one more coming of Christ Jesus, and that is on the last day of this world.

The 42 months of Revelation 13 that the "dragon" reigns is the same timing of the 42 months that the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city (Jerusalem), per Revelation 11:1-2, and that showing there will be another temple for that time. What Trumpet timing is that? It is the 6th Trumpet - 2n Woe timing. That is the "great tribulation" timing. It is the latter 1260 days, or 3.5 years, of the final 70th week of Daniel 9. Then Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, which is the time of the 'wrath' of 1 Thessalonians 5:9.

All the following events happen very quickly on the same day of Jesus' future coming (not necessarily in order):

The "day of the Lord" happens, with God's consumed fire destroying man's works upon the earth, and the Heavenly is revealed to all still alive. God's destruction upon the earth happens at an instant, suddenly, and surprises the wicked and deceived 'as a thief in the night'.

All peoples see Jesus coming in the clouds with the 'asleep' resurrected saints He brings with Him. The nations fear.

Those still alive in Christ are "caught up" to Jesus on His way to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem on earth, bringing His Church with Him.

Jesus and His army fight the battle of Armageddon, destroying the armies that come upon Jerusalem out of the northern quarters, and ending this present world.

All still alive on earth are changed suddenly, to the "spiritual body", including the wicked.

A portion of today's Jerusalem is destroyed (i.e., the tribulation temple false-Messiah will sit in), not one stone atop another on the temple mount. Jesus builds the temple per Zechariah 6.

The holy city new Jerusalem comes down from Heaven to the earth and is established with the Millennial sanctuary, with God's River of the waters of life emitting from under the Altar in God's "house", the "house" which Jesus said has "many mansions" (abodes). The tree of life also on either side of that River is established on earth. This is established in the holy land, and the sanctuary dimensions in Ezekiel show it has never been built yet to this day.

Jesus in Jerusalem begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect over Israel and the nations. All peoples and nations are required to come up to Jerusalem to worship THE KING, The LORD of hosts, from year to year and keep the feast of tabernacles. Those nations that refuse to come up there will be no rain on their lands.

 

[Davy]

The 7 Thunders will sound just like the Trumpets sound. They are voices that are heard, just like the angels sounding the Trumpets are voices heard. The 7 Thunders will sound just like the Trumpets with their own set of judgments. They are not "parenthetical ghost".

I thought you were not into numerology? Are you saying God inspired the chapter breaks after the dark ages? How about chapter 13?

John is told to not write the seven thunders, why?

Because they ALREADY SOUNDED ,AND IT'S OVER!

Thunder happens AFTER the lightning, and that's what that Revelation 10 Chapter is about, i.e. completion of prophecy for this present world. That's why the 7th angel sounding (7th Trumpet) is also mentioned! So HOW is it your MIND forgets all that when interpreting that Chapter??

 

[Davy]

I said the 2 witnesses start after the 6th Trumpet. The poster I quoted said they died at the end of the 6th Trumpet woe.

No!

They are not back to back to back woes. Between the 2nd and 3rd woe are 7 Thunders. They involve separate judgments just like the Trumpets did. They will have events just like the Trumpets did. Just because John could not include them in the text, does not mean they will not happen. It just means no one will know the details, until God lets humans know the details.

Those 3 woes involve Satan and his angels. Jude 1:6

What a terrible interpretation that above is.

The Woes included with the last 3 Trumpets serve as an emphasis... directly from Lord Jesus. It means we are to pay 'particular' attention to those last 3 trumpet - woe periods. And they occur... in order how they are written, with Jesus' coming on the final 7th trumpet, which is the "last trump" of Apostle Paul.

The 5th trumpet - 1st Woe period covers the prep for the "great tribulation" by the army of symbolic locust control over the earth. It is connected with the prophecies about the locust army in the Book of Joel. They are to take over everything. They are represented today by the globalist one-world government elites that devise controls over all the earth today, using such globalist organizations like the U.N. It is prophecy in God's Word, and He warned us about it. Also given on that 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period is info about the kind of attack by the locusts during the coming tribulation (the trib actually happens with the start of the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe).

The TYPE OF ATTACK the locusts do, for "five months", is a SPIRITUAL ATTACK, not a LITERAL war with physical military armies. It is about DECEPTION, being prepared to worship the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist.

Then on the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe, the symbolic border of Euphrates, which represents a wall of separation from God between Israel and Satan's host, that symbolic border is dried up so Satan's armies can cross, which are prepared for a 'specific' time. It is NOT a literal war, but a SPIRITUAL war. Again, the attack is through DECEPTION to bow to the false-Messiah who comes first before Jesus returns. This 6th trumpet begins the "great tribulation" timing. It is when God's two witnesses will begin their prophesying against the beast in Jerusalem for 1260 days. It is when the 3rd temple will involve the re-establishing of old covenant worship by the orthodox Jews, and then the false Messiah comes and ends it and instead sets up worship of himself as God.

The Revelation 10 Chapter is PARENTHETICAL, like a pause during the 6th trumpet period. Its purpose is to reveal that when the 7th trumpet sounds, it's all over. This is what the 7 thunders represent, the sound that happens after... lightning strikes.

Then on the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe, we are shown the end of this world with Jesus' coming having happened with all the kingdoms of this world becoming The Father's and His Son.

Thus those 3 trumpet - woe periods, ARE DEFINITELY ONE AFTER ANOTHER IN ORDER.

 

[Timtofly]

You're trying put the events happening in the order they are written again. Can't do that. The 7th Trumpet is the SAME time as the 7th Vial, which means the "day of the Lord". THAT... is the day Jesus returns to gather His Church.

But what you have been wrongly taught to do, is to try and add... another coming of Jesus to pull out His Church prior to the great tribulation. There is ONLY one more coming of Christ Jesus, and that is on the last day of this world.

The 42 months of Revelation 13 that the "dragon" reigns is the same timing of the 42 months that the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city (Jerusalem), per Revelation 11:1-2, and that showing there will be another temple for that time. What Trumpet timing is that? It is the 6th Trumpet - 2n Woe timing. That is the "great tribulation" timing. It is the latter 1260 days, or 3.5 years, of the final 70th week of Daniel 9. Then Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, which is the time of the 'wrath' of 1 Thessalonians 5:9.

All the following events happen very quickly on the same day of Jesus' future coming (not necessarily in order):

The "day of the Lord" happens, with God's consumed fire destroying man's works upon the earth, and the Heavenly is revealed to all still alive. God's destruction upon the earth happens at an instant, suddenly, and surprises the wicked and deceived 'as a thief in the night'.

All peoples see Jesus coming in the clouds with the 'asleep' resurrected saints He brings with Him. The nations fear.

Those still alive in Christ are "caught up" to Jesus on His way to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem on earth, bringing His Church with Him.

Jesus and His army fight the battle of Armageddon, destroying the armies that come upon Jerusalem out of the northern quarters, and ending this present world.

All still alive on earth are changed suddenly, to the "spiritual body", including the wicked.

A portion of today's Jerusalem is destroyed (i.e., the tribulation temple false-Messiah will sit in), not one stone atop another on the temple mount. Jesus builds the temple per Zechariah 6.

The holy city new Jerusalem comes down from Heaven to the earth and is established with the Millennial sanctuary, with God's River of the waters of life emitting from under the Altar in God's "house", the "house" which Jesus said has "many mansions" (abodes). The tree of life also on either side of that River is established on earth. This is established in the holy land, and the sanctuary dimensions in Ezekiel show it has never been built yet to this day.

Jesus in Jerusalem begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect over Israel and the nations. All peoples and nations are required to come up to Jerusalem to worship THE KING, The LORD of hosts, from year to year and keep the feast of tabernacles. Those nations that refuse to come up there will be no rain on their lands.

You are an Amil. Just admit it. The 1,000 years happens before the NHNE. Revelation 20:7

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"

This happens after the 1,000 years. You cannot place the Second Coming after the 1,000 years. You cannot place the 1,000 years after the GWT.

The 1,000 years are not part of the NHNE. There is a last day, but after the 1,000 years, and it is pretty uneventful. It certainly does not contain everything you listed. John did not even say those consumed by fire was the last day.

"And I saw a great white throne."

John does not say:

"On the same last day this all happened, I saw a great white throne."

You are an Amil if you claim the 1,000 years happens after the NHNE, because you do not allow for the 1,000 years on this earth. You claim it happens on the New Earth, which is pointless because we do not even know what time will even be defined as in the New Reality.

There was a resurrection at the start of the 1,000 years. The GWT was after Satan was cast into the LOF. This all did not happen on a single last day. The Second Coming is not even when Satan was bound. Yet you say Satan was bound and cast into the LOF on the same day. This is not possible. Satan was bound 1,000 years before being cast into the LOF. Satan was not cast into the LOF 1,000 years after the New Jerusalem comes to earth.

 

[Timtofly]

John is told to not write the seven thunders, why?

Because they ALREADY SOUNDED ,AND IT'S OVER!

Thunder happens AFTER the lightning, and that's what that Revelation 10 Chapter is about, i.e. completion of prophecy for this present world. That's why the 7th angel sounding (7th Trumpet) is also mentioned! So HOW is it your MIND forgets all that when interpreting that Chapter??

So the Thunders happened on the Island of Patmos, and no one heard them?

What early church father claims this?

What a terrible interpretation that above is.

The Woes included with the last 3 Trumpets serve as an emphasis... directly from Lord Jesus. It means we are to pay 'particular' attention to those last 3 trumpet - woe periods. And they occur... in order how they are written, with Jesus' coming on the final 7th trumpet, which is the "last trump" of Apostle Paul.

The 5th trumpet - 1st Woe period covers the prep for the "great tribulation" by the army of symbolic locust control over the earth. It is connected with the prophecies about the locust army in the Book of Joel. They are to take over everything. They are represented today by the globalist one-world government elites that devise controls over all the earth today, using such globalist organizations like the U.N. It is prophecy in God's Word, and He warned us about it. Also given on that 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period is info about the kind of attack by the locusts during the coming tribulation (the trib actually happens with the start of the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe).

The TYPE OF ATTACK the locusts do, for "five months", is a SPIRITUAL ATTACK, not a LITERAL war with physical military armies. It is about DECEPTION, being prepared to worship the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist.

Then on the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe, the symbolic border of Euphrates, which represents a wall of separation from God between Israel and Satan's host, that symbolic border is dried up so Satan's armies can cross, which are prepared for a 'specific' time. It is NOT a literal war, but a SPIRITUAL war. Again, the attack is through DECEPTION to bow to the false-Messiah who comes first before Jesus returns. This 6th trumpet begins the "great tribulation" timing. It is when God's two witnesses will begin their prophesying against the beast in Jerusalem for 1260 days. It is when the 3rd temple will involve the re-establishing of old covenant worship by the orthodox Jews, and then the false Messiah comes and ends it and instead sets up worship of himself as God.

The Revelation 10 Chapter is PARENTHETICAL, like a pause during the 6th trumpet period. Its purpose is to reveal that when the 7th trumpet sounds, it's all over. This is what the 7 thunders represent, the sound that happens after... lightning strikes.

Then on the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe, we are shown the end of this world with Jesus' coming having happened with all the kingdoms of this world becoming The Father's and His Son.

Thus those 3 trumpet - woe periods, ARE DEFINITELY ONE AFTER ANOTHER IN ORDER.

So Satan's angels loosed from the pit are global elitist?

The global elitist are not on the "other side" of the Euphrates. They are on both sides.

I agree the 3 woes happen in order. The rebel angels are loosed from the pit in the 1st woe. They kill in the 2nd woe. They are out of time in the 3rd woe.

If the 6th Trumpet is only the GT, what are the other 5 Trumpets? Just normal tribulation? Jesus returns after normal tribulation, which could be any day. Not on a specific day, because a specific day would be a known day and all would be prepared. The Second Coming is on a day, "you know not". Now you are claiming to know the specific day, ie the very "last day of everything". The 7th Trumpet sounds even before Satan's 42 months. It cannot be the "last day", if 42 months still have to happen. Or is that 42 months, just symbolic of 42 "minutes"?

 

[Davy]

You are an Amil. Just admit it. The 1,000 years happens before the NHNE. Revelation 20:7

Nope. I am NOT Amil. I believe what is written, and Revelation 20 is showing Christ's future 1,000 years reign begins at His future return, and only AFTER that 1,000 years will the devil, the wicked, death, and hell, go into the future "lake of fire". Only AFTER that "lake of fire" event will be the new heavens and a new earth. And in the NHNE there won't be any temple anymore, or didn't you understand Revelation 21 about that?

This happens after the 1,000 years. You cannot place the Second Coming after the 1,000 years. You cannot place the 1,000 years after the GWT.

I NEVER HAVE, and the benefit of the doubt is UPON YOU to prove it by finding anything I said to support the false Amillennial position. You must be thinking of someone else on this forum that is... Amil. I am not Amil.

 

[Davy]

So the Thunders happened on the Island of Patmos, and no one heard them?

That is just stupid, and doesn't warrant an educated response.

 

[Timtofly]

Nope. I am NOT Amil. I believe what is written, and Revelation 20 is showing Christ's future 1,000 years reign begins at His future return, and only AFTER that 1,000 years will the devil, the wicked, death, and hell, go into the future "lake of fire". Only AFTER that "lake of fire" event will be the new heavens and a new earth. And in the NHNE there won't be any temple anymore, or didn't you understand Revelation 21 about that?




I NEVER HAVE, and the benefit of the doubt is UPON YOU to prove it by finding anything I said to support the false Amillennial position. You must be thinking of someone else on this forum that is... Amil. I am not Amil.

Trying to figure out this:

The holy city new Jerusalem comes down from Heaven to the earth and is established with the Millennial sanctuary, with God's River of the waters of life emitting from under the Altar in God's "house", the "house" which Jesus said has "many mansions" (abodes). The tree of life also on either side of that River is established on earth. This is established in the holy land, and the sanctuary dimensions in Ezekiel show it has never been built yet to this day.

Jesus in Jerusalem begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect over Israel and the nations. All peoples and nations are required to come up to Jerusalem to worship THE KING, The LORD of hosts, from year to year and keep the feast of tabernacles. Those nations that refuse to come up there will be no rain on their lands.

You were saying this all happens on the "last day".

All the following events happen very quickly on the same day of Jesus' future coming (not necessarily in order):

 

[Timtofly]

That is just stupid, and doesn't warrant an educated response.

When did the 7 Thunders sound then? 70AD? You said they already happened back when ever.

John is told to not write the seven thunders, why?

Because they ALREADY SOUNDED ,AND IT'S OVER!

Thunder happens AFTER the lightning, and that's what that Revelation 10 Chapter is about, i.e. completion of prophecy for this present world. That's why the 7th angel sounding (7th Trumpet) is also mentioned! So HOW is it your MIND forgets all that when interpreting that Chapter??

I pointed out they sound between the 6th Trumpet and 7th Trumpet. You said they already sounded? When?

 

[Davy]

Trying to figure out this:



You were saying this all happens on the "last day".

If you had read... the Book of Ezekiel, like you're supposed to have done, you would have understood that the Millennial sanctuary is on earth during Christ's future "thousand years" reign. All it takes is a simple reading of the Ezekiel 47 Scripture.

Ezekiel 47 ALSO... reveals God's River of the Waters of Life having returned to earth, and emitting from that Millennial sanctuary, called God's house in Ezekiel. And along with that River, the many trees on either side of it is about the Tree of Life. That is established ON EARTH with God's house, DURING Christ's future 1,000 years reign.

YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE AMILL THEORY IS. It does NOT believe there will be a 'literal' "thousand years" reign over the wicked by Christ when He returns. They believe we immediately go into the new heavens and a new earth time.

The Revelation 21 and 22 Chapters have a mixture of info, some of it is about Christ's future 1,000 years reign with a temple, and other parts only happen after that when there will be no more temple...

Rev 21:22
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
KJV

Likewise in Revelation 22, there are some events that actually happen during Christ's 1,000 years reign, like the 14 and 15 verses about the wicked being outside the gates of the holy city, and only Christ's elect that have right to the tree of life...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Thus God's River and the tree of life is established literally, on earth, during Christ's future 1,000 years reign with His elect. And BECAUSE the wicked are still there outside the gates of the city (holy city, new Jerusalem), it means the end of the 1,000 years has not happened yet, so the above 14-15 verses are actually a part of the Revelation 20 timing.

All one need do to understand this is to stay in God's Word as written, instead of listening to men's traditions designed to get one off track from God's Truth.