The Didache on the coming of the world-deceiver: What 1st and 2nd century saints were taught

[Zao is life]

The Didache, also known as "The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations" (Διδαχὴ Κυρίου διὰ τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων τοῖς ἔθνεσιν), is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise (ancient church order) written in Koine Greek, dated by modern scholars to the first or (less commonly) second century AD. (Wikipedia)

Eusebius talks about it in his “Ecclesiastical History” in Book 3 chapter 25 and calls it the Institutions of the Apostles. The exact date it was written is unknown; however, it is attributed to the first or second century. The work disappeared, but two fragments were discovered in 1782. Then an entire Didache manuscript dating to 150 AD was rediscovered in a town in Turkey, in 1873.

The following is the final chapter of 16 chapters that were taught to all Christians in the nations in the first and second centuries by those who had learned from the apostles:

Chapter 16: Watchfulness; The Coming of the Lord.

" 1. Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh.

2. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.

3. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate;

4. for when lawlessness increaseth, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, .."
(see Matthew 24:9-13)

" ..and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning .. "
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, or Revelation 13:11?).

" 5. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but they that endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself .."
(See Matthew 24:9, 21-22).

" .. 6. And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first, the sign of an out-spreading in heaven; then the sign of the sound of the trumpet; and the third, the resurrection of the dead;

7. yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him .."
(see Matthew 24:29-30; as well as the last sentence of Zechariah 14:5; as well as Revelation 19:14 and Revelation 17:14).

" 8. .. Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven."
(See Matthew 24:30-31).

What is the most striking to me about the above is what the earliest Christians were taught about this:

" ..and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning .. "
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, or Revelation 13:11? Or are both men one and the same man? Or is it talking about the one mentioned in Revelation 13:1-7?).

He does signs and wonders, and the beast if Revelation 13:1-7 is not said to do signs and wonders himself/itself. Nor does 2 Thessalonians 2 say that the man of sin is himself performing the signs and wonders.
​

The only one who is specifically mentioned in the New Testament to himself be doing the signs and wonders, is the beast of Revelation 13:11 (who Revelation 19 identifies as the false prophet). He has two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon.

So my question is, who is the above world-deceiver who will appear "as the Son of God", i.e which New Testament scripture is he most likely to be identified with?
​

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

PS: I don't have an answer to my own question.

Source: Quotes from the Early Church Fathers: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, The Didache - Apostles Creed , as well as Wikipedia.​

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think what it's referring to is the general portrait of the Antichrist/Little Horn/Lawless One/Beast, who challenges God's authority, having received a measure of authority from God and then using that authority to demonstrate his independence from Him. In other words, God has given the Antichrist the ability to show himself to be opposed to God.

In doing so, the Antichrist draws men to himself to join in his rebellion against God. To do so he shows this authority given him from God, doing things that seem amazing, because God would never countenance a rebellion against Himself. Nevertheless, Antichrist appears to be somewhat successful for a time, demonstrating the supernatural power he was given as an angel.

Paul derives the following from the portrait of Antichrist, the Little Horn, in Dan 7:

2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Rev 13 describes how the Antichrist/Beast operates in conjunction with the 2nd Beast/False Prophet. This is just showing how the operation is managed by the Beast. In leading this rebellion against God it can be said that even what the False Prophet is doing is his doing, as well. It is all one rebellion against God, designed to mislead people into joining in with his rebellion.

 

[Zao is life]

I think what it's referring to is the general portrait of the Antichrist/Little Horn/Lawless One/Beast, who challenges God's authority, having received a measure of authority from God and then using that authority to demonstrate his independence from Him. In other words, God has given the Antichrist the ability to show himself to be opposed to God.

In doing so, the Antichrist draws men to himself to join in his rebellion against God. To do so he shows this authority given him from God, doing things that seem amazing, because God would never countenance a rebellion against Himself. Nevertheless, Antichrist appears to be somewhat successful for a time, demonstrating the supernatural power he was given as an angel.

Paul derives the following from the portrait of Antichrist, the Little Horn, in Dan 7:

2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Rev 13 describes how the Antichrist/Beast operates in conjunction with the 2nd Beast/False Prophet. This is just showing how the operation is managed by the Beast. In leading this rebellion against God it can be said that even what the False Prophet is doing is his doing, as well. It is all one rebellion against God, designed to mislead people into joining in with his rebellion.

I agree, but Satan isn't visually seen or audibly heard by masses of people, so that he can mislead/deceive and rule over them all by himself. He must use a willing human agent.

" ..and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning .. " (Didache).

So from what I can see the above world-deceiver can be narrowed down to one of the following:-

2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, or Revelation 13:11, or Revelation 13:1-7 / 17:8 & 11.

The others, as you say, will be working hand-in-hand with whoever that man is.

I think you may disagree that it's pointing to one person (human agent of Satan) who is going to be revealed (not sure).​

 

[Jay Ross]

Paul derives the following from the portrait of Antichrist, the Little Horn, in Dan 7:

2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Rev 13 describes how the Antichrist/Beast operates in conjunction with the 2nd Beast/False Prophet. This is just showing how the operation is managed by the Beast. In leading this rebellion against God it can be said that even what the False Prophet is doing is his doing, as well. It is all one rebellion against God, designed to mislead people into joining in with his rebellion.

I agree, but Satan isn't visually seen or audibly heard by masses of people, so that he can mislead/deceive and rule over them all by himself. He must use a willing human agent.

The author of the second quote above, demonstrates how effective the deceiver is in hiding in plain sight shouting, "Tis not me who is the Antichrist and the deceiver, it is that person/entity over there who has chosen to inhabit my dominion and do the things that I have led him/it/them to do."

Ephesians 6:12 tells us that we are not fighting against fellow human beings but against the wicked rebelling Heavenly hosts: -

Ephesians 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Satan has many willing servants from among the human race to do his bidding such that he is hidden behind the scenes of the actions being played out at his instructions to gain the upper hand over the Lord God almighty so that he can upsurge God and take his place by deceit when he appears to claim that he is our "savour" as he leads mankind down the path of destruction.

It is not surprising that many members of "Christian forums" on the net are working to further Satan's goals.

Shalom

 

[Randy Kluth]

The author of the second quote above, demonstrates how effective the deceiver is in hiding in plain sight shouting, "Tis not me who is the Antichrist and the deceiver, it is that person/entity over there who has chosen to inhabit my dominion and do the things that I have led him/it/them to do."

Ephesians 6:12 tells us that we are not fighting against fellow human beings but against the wicked rebelling Heavenly hosts: -

Ephesians 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Satan has many willing servants from among the human race to do his bidding such that he is hidden behind the scenes of the actions being played out at his instructions to gain the upper hand over the Lord God almighty so that he can upsurge God and take his place by deceit when he appears to claim that he is our "savour" as he leads mankind down the path of destruction.

It is not surprising that many members of "Christian forums" on the net are working to further Satan's goals.

Shalom

Not sure what your point is here? Who on Christian forums are working to "further Satan's goals?" My definition of Antichristianity is the same as "following Satan." It is Man choosing to live independent of God, attempting to further goals independent of God. It doesn't matter that Satan in invisible.

The spirit of this age is everywhere present in mankind. We are born into Sin, and tend in the direction of independence from God. We must respond to the Gospel, submit to Christ as Lord, and subdue our lower nature. By choosing Christ we choose his power over Sin, and are able to demonstrate in our lives his righteousness.

 

[Jay Ross]

Not sure what your point is here? Who on Christian forums are working to "further Satan's goals?"

Anyone who is not pointing towards a wicked heavenly host who is going to act as the Antichrist after they have been released from the bottomless pit.

My definition of Antichristianity is the same as "following Satan." It is Man choosing to live independent of God, attempting to further goals independent of God. It doesn't matter that Satan in invisible.

The spirit of this age is everywhere present in mankind. We are born into Sin, and tend in the direction of independence from God. We must respond to the Gospel, submit to Christ as Lord, and subdue our lower nature. By choosing Christ we choose his power over Sin, and are able to demonstrate in our lives his righteousness.

So, you are suggesting that Satan is not the influencer who wants to usurp God then?

The antichrist will not be of human form but will be one of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts.

Shalom

 

[Randy Kluth]

Anyone who is not pointing towards a wicked heavenly host who is going to act as the Antichrist after they have been released from the bottomless pit.

Who does that in the Christian world? Most Christians do believe that Satan will become virtually incarnate in the Antichrist system about to be unleashed upon the world--most Futurists that is.

So, you are suggesting that Satan is not the influencer who wants to usurp God then?

Of course not. All Christians believe Satan is the usurper.

The antichrist will not be of human form but will be one of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts.

Well, I believe Antichrist will be a human possessed by Satan. Your view doesn't detract from my own view. Believing either way will achieve the same result--we reject him.

 

[Jay Ross]

Well, I believe Antichrist will be a human possessed by Satan. Your view doesn't detract from my own view. Believing either way will achieve the same result--we reject him.

If as Rev 13 suggest, all the people of the earth will have to worship the Beast that makes desolate and if the people will not take his mark, then they will not be allowed to trade and buy food for themselves and their families.

We should not forget Daniel 9:27: -

27 And he, {Satan}, will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

Satan is the One who make desolate and causes devastation throughout all of the earth.

Shalom

 

[ewq1938]

Nor does 2 Thessalonians 2 say that the man of sin is himself performing the signs and wonders.​

It very much says the man of sin performs them:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him (the man of sin), whose coming is after (like) the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

This directly attributes these signs and lying wonders to the man of sin. Doing these things are like what satan does. The false prophet is also the one performing the same things:

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received
the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

lying:

G5579
pseudos
psyoo'-dos
From G5574; a falsehood: - lie, lying.
Total KJV occurrences: 9

wonders:

G5059
teras
Thayer Definition:
1) a prodigy, portent
2) miracle: performed by any one
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 8:113, 1170



"Lying wonders" by the man of sin is the same as "deceiving miracles" by the false prophet.

The false prophet and the man of sin are the same person, the Antichrist.

So my question is, who is the above world-deceiver who will appear "as the Son of God", i.e which New Testament scripture is he most likely to be identified with?​

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

If as Rev 13 suggest, all the people of the earth will have to worship the Beast that makes desolate and if the people will not take his mark, then they will not be allowed to trade and buy food for themselves and their families.

We should not forget Daniel 9:27: -

27 And he, {Satan}, will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

Satan is the One who make desolate and causes devastation throughout all of the earth.

Shalom

I believe the passage in Dan 9.26-27 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the generation in which Christ was "cut off." I believe the "ruler" was the Roman leadership, inspired by Satan, to agree with the Jews to tolerate Judaism, only to terminate Christ, the fulfillment of sacrifice and offering. We don't disagree that Satan instigated this.

Either that, or the Roman leadership covenanted together with the Jews to protect Judaism, but betrayed that by taking away their Messiah as the one presiding over Jewish sacrifices and offerings. In this case, Satan would only be inspiring him to kill Christ, but not to tolerate Judaism for 3.5 years.

 

[ScottA]

The Didache, also known as "The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations" (Διδαχὴ Κυρίου διὰ τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων τοῖς ἔθνεσιν), is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise (ancient church order) written in Koine Greek, dated by modern scholars to the first or (less commonly) second century AD. (Wikipedia)

Eusebius talks about it in his “Ecclesiastical History” in Book 3 chapter 25 and calls it the Institutions of the Apostles. The exact date it was written is unknown; however, it is attributed to the first or second century. The work disappeared, but two fragments were discovered in 1782. Then an entire Didache manuscript dating to 150 AD was rediscovered in a town in Turkey, in 1873.

The following is the final chapter of 16 chapters that were taught to all Christians in the nations in the first and second centuries by those who had learned from the apostles:

Chapter 16: Watchfulness; The Coming of the Lord.

" 1. Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh.

2. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.

3. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate;

4. for when lawlessness increaseth, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, .."
(see Matthew 24:9-13)

" ..and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning .. "
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, or Revelation 13:11?).

" 5. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but they that endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself .."
(See Matthew 24:9, 21-22).

" .. 6. And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first, the sign of an out-spreading in heaven; then the sign of the sound of the trumpet; and the third, the resurrection of the dead;

7. yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him .."
(see Matthew 24:29-30; as well as the last sentence of Zechariah 14:5; as well as Revelation 19:14 and Revelation 17:14).

" 8. .. Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven."
(See Matthew 24:30-31).

What is the most striking to me about the above is what the earliest Christians were taught about this:

" ..and then shall appear the world-deceiver as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning .. "
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, or Revelation 13:11? Or are both men one and the same man? Or is it talking about the one mentioned in Revelation 13:1-7?).

He does signs and wonders, and the beast if Revelation 13:1-7 is not said to do signs and wonders himself/itself. Nor does 2 Thessalonians 2 say that the man of sin is himself performing the signs and wonders.
​

The only one who is specifically mentioned in the New Testament to himself be doing the signs and wonders, is the beast of Revelation 13:11 (who Revelation 19 identifies as the false prophet). He has two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon.

So my question is, who is the above world-deceiver who will appear "as the Son of God", i.e which New Testament scripture is he most likely to be identified with?
​

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

PS: I don't have an answer to my own question.

Source: Quotes from the Early Church Fathers: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, The Didache - Apostles Creed , as well as Wikipedia.​

First, it is important to understand that Satan was already at work even in the garden, and the spirit of anti-Christ even since the time of Christ. More importantly, looking at what was taught, it is important to acknowledge that Peter indicated with certainty that false teachers would enter into the church bringing in destructive doctrines, that Paul also foretold the inevitability of strong delusion and great apostacy because many would believe a lie, and that five of the seven churches of Revelation, Jesus had somewhat against...even then. In other words, what has been taught by the church is entirely suspect.

But to answer your question, what man is without sin? He is not the man, but all others are--just as all in Adam (one man) sin--we who have been born of the flesh are that man of sin revealed.

 

[Zao is life]

It very much says the man of sin performs them:

It doesn't, though, ewq1938.

We know that the false prophet is the only one mentioned in Revelation 19 as the one whose miracles and signs and lying wonders deceived the nations:

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet doing signs before it, (by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast), and those who had worshiped his image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone. -- Rev.19:20

Check what I show below for any error, in order to check if you've maybe read that assumption into the following words:
​

2Th 2:9 Even him (the man of sin), whose coming is after (like) the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

"whose coming is like the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"

attributes the actual working of those signs to the man of sin himself as much as and no less than the actual working of the power and signs and lying wonders that accompany the coming of the beast of Revelation 13 are attributed to the beast himself.

IMHO (and I'm not saying this critically, or to criticize you) you've read that into the text of 2 Thess 2:9 at some point in your study of scripture, and formed your opinion that the man of sin = the false prophet on that basis.

Check:

who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, 2 Thess

And a mouth speaking great things was given to him, and blasphemies. Rev 13

so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God. 2 Thess

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those dwelling in Heaven. Rev 13

And authority was given to him to continue forty-two months.

And authority was given to him over every tribe and tongue and nation.

And it was given to it to war with the saints and to overcome them.

And all dwelling on the earth will worship him, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world. Rev 13

so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God. 2 Thess

If any man has an ear, let him hear.

-- 2 Thess 2:4 and Rev.13:5-9​

 

[Jay Ross]

I believe the passage in Dan 9.26-27 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the generation in which Christ was "cut off." I believe the "ruler" was the Roman leadership, inspired by Satan, to agree with the Jews to tolerate Judaism, only to terminate Christ, the fulfillment of sacrifice and offering. We don't disagree that Satan instigated this.

Either that, or the Roman leadership covenanted together with the Jews to protect Judaism, but betrayed that by taking away their Messiah as the one presiding over Jewish sacrifices and offerings. In this case, Satan would only be inspiring him to kill Christ, but not to tolerate Judaism for 3.5 years.

Oh well, it seems that there is no point for any further conversation. Your understanding leads to a very different outcome.

 

[Zao is life]

I think what it's referring to is the general portrait of the Antichrist/Little Horn/Lawless One/Beast, who challenges God's authority, having received a measure of authority from God and then using that authority to demonstrate his independence from Him. In other words, God has given the Antichrist the ability to show himself to be opposed to God.

In doing so, the Antichrist draws men to himself to join in his rebellion against God. To do so he shows this authority given him from God, doing things that seem amazing, because God would never countenance a rebellion against Himself. Nevertheless, Antichrist appears to be somewhat successful for a time, demonstrating the supernatural power he was given as an angel.

Paul derives the following from the portrait of Antichrist, the Little Horn, in Dan 7:

2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Rev 13 describes how the Antichrist/Beast operates in conjunction with the 2nd Beast/False Prophet. This is just showing how the operation is managed by the Beast. In leading this rebellion against God it can be said that even what the False Prophet is doing is his doing, as well. It is all one rebellion against God, designed to mislead people into joining in with his rebellion.

I agree, but Satan isn't visually seen or audibly heard by masses of people, so that he can mislead/deceive and rule over them all by himself. He must use a willing human agent.​

The author of the second quote above, demonstrates how effective the deceiver is in hiding in plain sight shouting, "Tis not me who is the Antichrist and the deceiver, it is that person/entity over there who has chosen to inhabit my dominion and do the things that I have led him/it/them to do."

Ephesians 6:12 tells us that we are not fighting against fellow human beings but against the wicked rebelling Heavenly hosts: -

Ephesians 6:12: - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Satan has many willing servants from among the human race to do his bidding such that he is hidden behind the scenes of the actions being played out at his instructions to gain the upper hand over the Lord God almighty so that he can upsurge God and take his place by deceit when he appears to claim that he is our "savour" as he leads mankind down the path of destruction.

It is not surprising that many members of "Christian forums" on the net are working to further Satan's goals.

Shalom

Yes, we do not wrestle with flesh and blood but with the spiritual forces of darkness behind them. So I will speak not to you, but to the spirit who is behind your words above:

The Lord rebuke you, Satan. The Lord Jesus Christ rebuke you. You know fully well HE is my Lord and not the ones whose mouths you may use to falsely accuse me or anyone else they accuse. He - the Lord Jesus Christ my Savior - has already defeated you. The Lord rebuke you, Satan.

 

[Zao is life]

Anyone who is not pointing towards a wicked heavenly host who is going to act as the Antichrist after they have been released from the bottomless pit.

You mean anyone who disagrees with what Jay Ross says. So you are equating yourself with that wicked heavenly host, because you are pointing to yourself and not towards the wicked heavenly host who you assert is going to act as the Antichrist.

The antichrist will not be of human form but will be one of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts.
Shalom

"Peace to you" he always says, after he acts on behalf of the king of the wicked heavenly host - the accuser of the brethren - by falsely accusing the brethren.

In the Revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, He told us that Satan himself will give the beast - whether it be a human kingdom, or its king (or both) - his seat, his power and great authority.

Two entities:

1. Satan.
2. The beast.

And there is a third:

The false prophet.

According to you anyone who disagrees with what Jay Ross says when Jay Ross points towards a wicked heavenly host who is going to act as the Antichrist after they have been released from the bottomless pit,

are going to be the ones to act as the Antichrist after they have been released from the bottomless pit.

You are a false teacher. And you have willingly submitted your mouth to the accuser who falsely accuses the brethren.

 

[Zao is life]

I believe the passage in Dan 9.26-27 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the generation in which Christ was "cut off." I believe the "ruler" was the Roman leadership, inspired by Satan, to agree with the Jews to tolerate Judaism, only to terminate Christ, the fulfillment of sacrifice and offering. We don't disagree that Satan instigated this.

Either that, or the Roman leadership covenanted together with the Jews to protect Judaism, but betrayed that by taking away their Messiah as the one presiding over Jewish sacrifices and offerings. In this case, Satan would only be inspiring him to kill Christ, but not to tolerate Judaism for 3.5 years.

The gospel record of the apostles state that Pontius Pilate wanted nothing to do with the death of Christ, washing his hands of it as he handed their Messiah over to be killed, and the record makes it obvious that Caesar knew nothing of the specific events that were taking place when Christ was crucified, until after the events had already taken place.

The historical record is that roughly 40 years later the Romans had enough of the Jews and their zealot rebels constantly trying to overthrow Roman rule over Judea and Jerusalem, and so they destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.

The only reason why the Jews still 'behaved' in this way toward Rome, is because they had rejected the Messiah. For sure, Satan was behind the Jews' rejection of their Messiah and their demand that he be crucified, as well as behind Rome's (Pontius Pilate's) reluctantly granting them their wish.

However Satan was no more behind the Jewish zealot's constant rebellion against Rome (and Rome's eventual final reaction to it in 70 A.D) than he has always been behind all wars and all conflicts, since the fall of Adam.

The difference between A.D 30 when Jesus was crucified and 70 A.D is that by 70 A.D God had withdrawn from that part of israel that had been broken off from God's covenant relationship with Israel, who had been broken off through their unbelief, hence had withdrawn from involvement in the affairs of the Jews of Judea and Jerusalem who rejected Christ.​

 

[Zao is life]

First, it is important to understand that Satan was already at work even in the garden, and the spirit of anti-Christ even since the time of Christ. More importantly, looking at what was taught, it is important to acknowledge that Peter indicated with certainty that false teachers would enter into the church bringing in destructive doctrines, that Paul also foretold the inevitability of strong delusion and great apostacy because many would believe a lie, and that five of the seven churches of Revelation, Jesus had somewhat against...even then. In other words, what has been taught by the church is entirely suspect.

The church is made up of individuals. It's what is taught by individuals as much as what is taught by any particular congregation or ecclesia that always has been, and always will be, entirely suspect until Christ returns - but only IF and where (and whenever) it goes against sound biblical doctrine.

But to answer your question, what man is without sin? He is not the man, but all others are--just as all in Adam (one man) sin--we who have been born of the flesh are that man of sin revealed.

I understand what you are saying above, though it took me a while to understand what you are implying with the above statement.

Yes, I agree, it may be interpreted that way - but we have to be careful what we decide, IMO - because there is also a false prophet and a beast mentioned in scripture, and the Revelation of Jesus Christ tells us that Satan will give said beast his seat, his power and great authority,

and Revelation 17:11 calls said beast ("him" or "it") a king or kingdom who or which rules with 10 kings, and who or which is one of six kings or kingdoms that came before him, plus a seventh one, which is the kingdom of the 10 kings who will reign with the beast.

It can imply a man. But it can also imply a kingdom - many men. So IMO we have to be careful not only what we decide, but even better, not to decide until the events unfolding make it obvious to the faithful among Christ's sheep - whichever generation that may be.​

 

[Zao is life]

Oh well, it seems that there is not point for any further conversation. Your understanding leads to a very different outcome.

Bye

 

[rwb]

I believe the passage in Dan 9.26-27 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the generation in which Christ was "cut off." I believe the "ruler" was the Roman leadership, inspired by Satan, to agree with the Jews to tolerate Judaism, only to terminate Christ, the fulfillment of sacrifice and offering. We don't disagree that Satan instigated this.

Either that, or the Roman leadership covenanted together with the Jews to protect Judaism, but betrayed that by taking away their Messiah as the one presiding over Jewish sacrifices and offerings. In this case, Satan would only be inspiring him to kill Christ, but not to tolerate Judaism for 3.5 years.

The Messiah was cut off by His crucifixion. The people of the prince that should come is the people of Christ, the Jews are the people that caused the destruction of the city and sanctuary and brought the complete end through a flood that is the Roman Army. That was the final end of the Old Covenant. The final literal destruction that came to Israel of Old was ordained by God because the people had turned away from Him and committed spiritual adultery and fornication with the gods of this world. The final act that led to the utter demise of Israel of Old was their rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah. As in "the Prince of the people that shall come". Through His atoning work on the cross Christ fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel.

Daniel 9:26-27 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Messiah was cut off by His crucifixion. The people of the prince that should come is the people of Christ, the Jews are the people that caused the destruction of the city and sanctuary and brought the complete end through a flood that is the Roman Army. That was the final end of the Old Covenant. The final literal destruction that came to Israel of Old was ordained by God because the people had turned away from Him and committed spiritual adultery and fornication with the gods of this world. The final act that led to the utter demise of Israel of Old was their rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah. As in "the Prince of the people that shall come". Through His atoning work on the cross Christ fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel.

Daniel 9:26-27 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

That's not my opinion, but it's a reasonable view. We certainly agree on the time frame. Daniel's 70th Week was, in my opinion, a shortened period of 7 years, or 1 "Week." In the middle of that "Week" Christ was cut off by the Roman government at the behest of a Jewish mob. The Jewish People themselves did nothing to stop it.

As a result, God poured out His wrath upon Israel, breaking His covenant of protection with them. In 70 AD Jerusalem was destroyed, along with the temple, and the Jewish People were vomited out of their land for the duration of the present age. I believe that Christ's word of forgiveness for his betrayers is advance notice that the Jewish People can be restored if they repent of their lawlessness.