Veteran, greetings in Christ frm sunny Texas,
I quoted--Romans 13:1-6 to which you replied
The "higer powers" Paul is talking about there are those whom God places in power over us, specifically 'rulers'!
And what methods do 'rulers' use from God? LAWS!
My response--OK so what is your problem? I have with the texts shown that
[1] Law existed prior to the mosiac law
[2] That same law--God's Moral law of sin and of Death existed prior to--during and after the Mosaic law
[3] At the cross--The Mosaic law went away
[4] That God is in control--whether via governments--Romans 13 or by the New Covenant began in Acts 2
[5] That the Mosaic law was given to very specific group of people and no one else
[6] God thus judges the world at the time of Mt. sinai by two laws
[a] For the people we call Jews--the Mosaic Law
For the Gentiles in the world--Still God's Moral law of sin and of death.
[c] Thus that Mosaic law applies to no one today--none, zip, nada
I agree that God has used laws to govern folks--just not the same folks for everyone all the time.
For your own purposes--you are not making an attempt to understand these differences in law and unless you do you will never ever get it right. So it tells me that you are attempting to protect a man made doctrine--
you stated
That's why arguments implying that God's laws no longer exist is a silly and ignorant argument, and very, very un-Biblical. Those who argue such show how they have yet to understand how God is still in control of His creation.
My respponse--strange, very strange--evidently you are not reading correctly.. I have shown by scripture what has been stated above.
The only law that does not exist today--is the Mosaic law given until the promise was fulfilled in Christ. Man is still very much under law--Just not the Mosaic law--
[1]Folks are born into this world
[2] law is in this world but not imputed to children
[3] Sin uses the law to destroy man when that man\woman reaches the point in their life similiar to Pauls
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[4] Man dies--becomes separated from God by sin...because sin used the law to kill us.
[5] All men at this point are under God's Moral law of sin and of death
IN THIS CONDITION--when man hears and believes and obeys the gospel of Jesus Christ--God adopts you out of the law of sin and of death into the new covenant law--the law of Christ.
[7] James 1:12-17 makes it clear that if we under the law of Christ to enter into our lives and govern us again--we die and God will then judge us by the law of sin and of death--His Moral law.
Finally--you stated
Furthermore, Col.2 and Eph.2 is SPECIFIC on just what law our Lord Jesus Christ nailed to His cross. And you are completely EVADING that Scriptural fact.
My response--I have already addressed that issue i.e. what does the word New mean--and by showing again with scripture
the illustration of the wineskins--are you telling us that you are denying these things?
But I will have more to say as time goes on--even on your texts.
you stated
So either you've come here to push 'lawlessness' upon Christianity, or you've simply been deceived by false prophets. I'll let others here decide which.
My response--I am sorry about this--but my grandmother has always told me that If I could not take the heat--to stay of of the kitchen--you might consider this with this statement of yours..
Well, I will say this--I prefer the teachings of the scripture over rantings that are not edifying..And so far from you
you take offense at the scriptures when they show you you need to rethink some of this..Doesn't say much now, does it?
Richard79408
Veteran, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,
you said--There's a difference between 'using' the texts vs. understanding them. And I'm still very much on topic, the laws God gave through Moses, which apparently, you fail to recognize how many of them still exist in today's Christian society, and among the early Christian nations.
You specifically fail to address what Paul said in 1 Timothy 1 of how God's laws are still in effect for the wicked. Those laws were specifically given through Moses.
My question: Are you on a broken record? It seems that everytime I read what you writen--I have failed to address something--Perhaps you should rethink that???? It is not a great way to progress through life or bible study.
Now--you need to wake up--MAN CANNOT KEEP THE LAW..PAUL HIMSELF HAS SO STATED...
God's Moral law of sin and of death existed long before the Mosaic law came into being. True____ False______
What God provided with the Mosaic law--was a system of offerings and sacrifices to be offered WHEN THE JEWS BROKE THE LAW..because break it they did.
Now, let me review in my mind what you and I have shared together so far.
[1] you don't want anything except what you are saying
[2] When you reach a certain point--your post reflect a meanness that reflects the treasure of your heart.
[3] You are a lot like a kid in my neighborhood growing up. He had a monopoly set--Did not matter what the rules were--either we played by his or we didn't play. And, I certain can see that kid in you with your posts.
[4] This is a good thing--taking my advice and getting out of the kitchen due to the heat..nothing wrong with that--I am glad that you are wise enough to see it.
[5] God's law's apply to all--Christians are not exempt--something you seem to not see.
[6] Those sins found in I Tim 1:8-11 existed long prior to the Mosaic law--
[7] Paul was converted out of God's Moral law of sin and of death Not the Mosaic law--it went away at the cross.
[8] You make statements illustrating that I have not done something but when I do--you totally ignore it. That is not good bible study.
[9] However, I do recognise the problems many have the first time around the street understanding covenants and the laws. It takes time--to put it all together.
Richard 79408