Do we even have the correct definition of "saved?"

[Episkopos]

No...we can know, and we who have passed from death to life, do know. Just as Jesus said, "we know of what we speak." But those who do not know only speak from that empty reservoir: They do not even know what they do not know.

And passages like "running the race" are not speaking of when "It is finished." But...when "It is finished", we are right to say so--just as Christ did...that is our witness; and that witness is to be the hope of those who follow, and should not be mocked. To mock those who follow Christ in the very things He Himself did, is to mock Christ.

Was Christ "prideful" to say "It is finished?" No! Nor is it pride that we should tell the same truth. But it is against (anti) Christ to speak against those who do. You do it to Him.

Jesus ran His course until "it was finished" and now we must run our course till "it is finished" It is disingenuous to claim Jesus' race as our own...until we have run the course. Jesus said that as He was dying. And we can do likewise if we have remained faithful till the end.

Rev. 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus didn't overcome instead of us. We must each run our own race. We can't say "it is finished" until it is.

 

[ScottA]

And also on God's approval or rejection. Many will be rejected that believe they are saved. There will be weeping and anger.

Nonetheless, when "It is finished", it is finished...that very same day.

The problem is that many do not receive the Lord in full that very moment, but are convinced that it is a "process", which they do by the false gospel of those who do the same, claiming what they do not know, but speculate that because the scriptures describe the unveiling of all truth over time and that many do not first believe, that today is not the day of salvation and put it off until someday. Nonetheless, the woes of unbelieving men and those who wait for another day, is not the way of God for salvation.

 

[Episkopos]

Nonetheless, when "It is finished", it is finished...that very same day.

You are drawing the wrong conclusion. The thief died that day. His race was finished. And the human race of Jesus was finished...that's why He said...It is finished.

But you are taking this dogmatically thinking of a weird transactional salvation whereby one positive word eradicates all future life. But that is false. We remain in play so we are free to go either way...to do well or badly...right up to the end of our lives. THEN comes judgment. The churches have failed miserably with the false idea of salvation being a onetime only decision. We make thousands of decisions each day...and for all these we will be judged. No one is going to be judged on one decision...but every word and thought and deed.

 

[Ezra]

Even so!
Whose feet are we washing?

"Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." John 13:13-15

foot washing amen

 

[Ezra]

But you are taking this dogmatically thinking of a weird transactional salvation whereby one positive word eradicates all future life

gosh is there anyone in this forum have the correct doctrine besides you

 

[aspen]

so then lemme ask, this "saved" basically means "going up to heaven after i have died," yes?

No

 

[Ezra]

the woes of unbelieving men and those who wait for another day, is not the way of God for salvation.

its like playing poker with a stacked deck .not very profitable

 

[bbyrd009]

because I am saved. Can you?

the implied q was "what is the definition of 'saved,'" yes?
so, not really whether any individual is or not wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, I meant you personally.
Odds of our salvation don't go down. As long as Jesus is reigning, His promises are sure.
Maybe you have a small hope because you have a small god or because you are putting your trust in man that cleverly disguises themselves as a god.

ok, ty, ill hafta take a look at that, but again the q was really "what is the definition of saved," and im not so interested in evaluating individual salvation statuses. Just wondering the definition ok

I did. Why would that make you surer? God's Word is the surer thing.

yes, you have already said you know you are "saved," and ty

 

[ScottA]

And once again - it's mot ME who deems that salvation is a process - it's the Word of God.

As I educated you earlier - the Scriptures tell us that with the initial gift of grace to believe - we are "saved" - in a sense (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8).
If we were to drop dead right there - we would probably be saved.

HOWEVER, because most of us don't drop dead after coming to Christ - we must cooperate with God's grace throughout our lifetime (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14). This is the process of sanctification. during this process, we struggle with sin and rely on God.

When we finally DO die after having endured in faith to the end - we are saved - fully sanctified (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).

That is a good description of your error. Thanks for describing it.

Yes indeed, "most of us don't drop dead after coming to Christ." They should, because that is what is called for, but most don't.

Which is to say, most are not "born again of the spirit of God" when they begin to follow Christ...and so they go away from time to time flirting with life and death, and some return and some not. But that is not salvation. Nor is that the plan or prescription of God. That is at best, good intentions, but without understanding.

But, thanks again for explaining yourself.

 

[Renniks]

ah well i dont know, sorry, but i do notice that among western believers particularly the term "saved" pretty much means "assured of going up to heaven after i have literally died"

As opposed to what? Is assurance of heaven not part of salvation?

 

[Renniks]

ezackly, so another point to this was to mention how as soon as one says "i am saved," they would naturally no longer be looking for true salvation if they were perhaps wrong in some regard, and almost certainly no longer interested in having merely a hope of salvation.

fwiw this issue is what split the Anabaptists i guess, into Amish/Mennonite

Should we constantly be searching for salvation? Aren't we told that once we believe we have assurance? Not sure what you are getting at.

 

[Episkopos]

gosh is there anyone in this forum have the correct doctrine besides you

Well...it would seem that many people are reading only the parts of the bible they prefer. Could it be that by reading the whole bible that doctrine is improved?

 

[bbyrd009]

I can call Him my Saviour because I am saved. Can you?

As for "Lord", I trust Him as my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him. You can too.

i think "lord" and "shepherd" are distinctly different offices? but again ty

 

[bbyrd009]

As opposed to what? Is assurance of heaven not part of salvation?

oh it def is i guess, ya; its how heaven comes to be portrayed, as some literal place that might only be attained after death, "death more abundantly"

 

[Renniks]

oh it def is i guess, ya; its how heaven comes to be portrayed, as some literal place that might only be attained after death, "death more abundantly"

Heaven is literal. Read Revelations. Yes, salvation starts now. We are not just to occupy, but to glorify God here and now.

 

[Ezra]

Well...it would seem that many people are reading only the parts of the bible they prefer. Could it be that by reading the whole bible that doctrine is improved?

or could it be your the only one right in your eyes. what part of the Bible has any one left out?

 

[ScottA]

Jesus ran His course until "it was finished" and now we must run our course till "it is finished" It is disingenuous to claim Jesus' race as our own...until we have run the course. Jesus said that as He was dying. And we can do likewise if we have remained faithful till the end.

Rev. 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus didn't overcome instead of us. We must each run our own race. We can't say "it is finished" until it is.

The point is that we should indeed die, and it should be finished when we come to Christ, that we should also be born again of the spirit of God, having put to death the flesh, as crucified and risen with Christ (past tense). And those who do not, are not even His.

He came and died for many who do not receive Him. And when I say "for", I mean instead of, not needing to die or run, but to receive it...which is death to the flesh, but life to God. Such is the gift of eternal life.

 

[Enow]

the implied q was "what is the definition of 'saved,'" yes?
so, not really whether any individual is or not wadr

I would think how "saved" is applied to you and me in regards to our faith in Jesus as our Savior would answer the question for how it is used in the scripture.

Course, there are verses where we seek to be saved by what is coming on this earth by the Bridegroom taking us out of here before it comes, like in 2 Peter 3 rd chapter, but I believe your question about saved is in regards to our eternal salvation, rather than abiding in Him to be saved from what is coming on the earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

Should we constantly be searching for salvation?

well i would suggest that there are many, many vv that suggest as much, work to make your calling and election sure, Paul's race parable, lots of others, Philippians 2:12 Lexicon: So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Aren't we told that once we believe we have assurance?

well, not of any future in a literal heaven that may only be attained after literal death, certainly not; No one has ever gone up to heaven, There is only One Immortal, you and your sons will be here with me, etc, and if you note the original at those vv for "believe" it is pistis which is much better expressed "have faith" only that makes "believers" uncomfortable so they have virtually all been changed to "belief" or "believe" now, in most versions. so imo no on two counts

 

[bbyrd009]

I would think how "saved" is applied to you and me in regards to our faith in Jesus as our Savior would answer the question for how it is used in the scripture.

shouldnt it be the other way around?

and you say "faith" as a noun but isnt that really a belief?