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Featured Do we even have the correct definition of "saved?"

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by bbyrd009, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Renniks

    Renniks Well-Known Member

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    Cherry picking incomplete verses, lol. No context... Up against a slew of verses promising eternal life to believers...
    The new Jerusalem isn't figurative.
     
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  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    So Byrd

    it looks like you just want confirmation of your posts or rejection.....no discussion - got it
     
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  3. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Although we can know what God has promised for our future...
    John 5:24 KJV
    [24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
     
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  4. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much any charitable donation to an organization, (even giving to churches), is tax-deductible.

    It is the Individual who decides to take the deduction, or not, even if the deduction is allowed.
     
  5. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    For Jesus to say this below:

    Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    Then the spirits of the dead are with the Lord, regardless of waiting for their resurrection.

    2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
     
  6. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    @bbyrd009

    I do not know if this is the reference in Matthew 16:7-9 is what you were paraphrasing from in questioning His deity, but you should consider that when He does ask a question, it was to engage people either in their conversation or what they were thinking to get them to think and understand.

    This is a reference to engage them in having a conversation with Him regarding bread.

    Matthew 16:7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

    Now here is a reference one may apply to Him being God for perceiving what they were thinking in their hearts and then asking them a question to engage them in a conversation.

    Mark 2:6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. 12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

    Anyway, just because Jesus is asking a question, it doesn't mean He doesn't know what they were thinking, but that was just Him asking a question to engage them in a conversation to think and mayhap to learn something about Him too, in being God.
     
  7. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Learning is a process.
    The Introduction.
    The Prelude.
    The Topic.
    The Knowledge.

    The Participants, People.

    Pertaining to learning About God;
    The Participants are always People...
    People are Individuals,
    WHO themselves Decide:
    * The Source of their Knowledge
    * The Trust in their chosen source
    * The Extent of their own Effort.
    * The Verification of their Source, or not
    * The Understanding of What Information Applies, to Whom, and When, and Why.

    So inanutshell...the INDIVIDUAL, will be making the Conclusion of WHAT "Saved" MEANS TO That INDIVIDUAL, based on...
    That Individuals Extent...
    Of:
    Source
    Trust
    Extent
    Effort
    Verification
    Applicability
    Understanding
    Conclusion

    And Every Person IS an Individual..
    Thus, multiple Conclusions should be Expected.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  8. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    True

    However Gods Word of Truth is not the Source or Belief of All people.

    :confused:

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  9. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    That's only one side of the equation. The bible also says whoever believes that Jesus has come in the flesh is born of God. And that can be said of anyone who goes to church...including the mafia.

    I find that people are looking to be saved by reading certain bible verses. And thus deceiving themselves by trying to find legal means to be saved.

    But where is the honesty in that?

    If we abide in Christ we ought to walk even as He walked. Now that doesn't sound like an easy verse to get saved with. Or else...whoever sins is of the devil. You never hear that verse cited for an easy salvation.

    So to me unless you look at ALL the verses in the bible...you should keep quiet. And even IF you are walking like Jesus...you should not claim anything.

    but the carnal man claims and claims...without any evidence. people are looking to justify themselves.
     
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  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    all go to the same place
    you and your sons will be here with me
    we do not yet know what we will become

    thinking, i dont think too much lol, tbh thinking gets me in trouble
    i would certainly love to be an immortal myself tho, i mean dont doubt that
    Death, More Abundantly is a very attractive proposition, yeh
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i guess i "see" what you mean
    :D get it
    I will never leave you nor forsake you
    so i would contemplate that Christ has been here the whole time, unseen
    you dont think they cannot? You do think they can iow? Who told you that you were naked? so i agree that Yah at least would have no problems with them, just like they are, sure; but unapproachable light is i guess unapproachable for a diff reason, feelings of guilt and shame or whatever, iow not that yack we are taught about Yah not being able to abide the presence of sin, which is children guessing poorly at best imo
    youd have to rephrase here i guess, im not getting your point sorry
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  12. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    People are naturally succeptable to believing...
    By SIGHT, rather than HEARING.

    One of the HIGHLIGHTS, of Jesus coming To Earth...was foretold by Isaiah...was Revealed by John the Baptist.

    He (Jesus) "shall" SAVE you FROM your sins.

    The WAY (Jesus), gives the explicit Revealing of TRUTH, of HOW, any "living soul" , upon this Earth, CAN, become SAVE-ED...NOW.

    NOW...is the NEW News. A New Promise/ Covenant...

    The Covenant, WAS/IS, "expressly", For "particular" People.

    WHO are the "particular" people?

    Matt 15:
    [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Twelve were chosen, one a devil, he replaced, and their mission...To Hear, Learn from the Source, The Word of God, and Teach The Lost, of the house of Israel..."their awaited Salvation has come unto Them".

    They ^ First.

    Lastly, the Gentile's were given Consideration for the Same Offering of HOW to receive Salvation, NOW.

    Acts 9:
    [10] And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
    [11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
    [12] And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
    [13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
    [14] And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
    [15] But the Lord said unto him, (Ananias) Go thy way: for he (Saul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

    They ^ the Last and the First

    The WHAT and WAY and HOW and TO WHOM
    Is "expressly" offer-ed, for the receiving NOW.

    Heb 10:
    [10] By the which will we are sanctified through theoffering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    The KEY...has never Changed: even from Adams day:

    (Offering to Adam..
    Gen 2
    [16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
    Gen 3
    [22] ...and NOW lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    An Individual Must reach out and TAKE the OFFERING.

    Some Learned, some DID take the Offering :
    And?

    Accomplished...Sav-ed

    Luke 7
    [50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

    Luke 18:
    [42] And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

    1Cor 1:[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


    Some are wondering How to become Sav-ed
    Some Shall be Sav-ed
    Some Might be Sav-ed
    Some Hope to be Sav-Ed
    Some Are Sav-ed


    @bbyrd009
    Glory to God,
    Taken[/B]
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  13. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ^ its like that and like this, gotcha, and ty
    no, sorry...tbh i cant even figure out that question?
    "it's like this and like that?"
    from your v quote in peter, Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
    which i dont speak that language, but since you do i chose it, particularly for the use of the phrase seeing ye know these things before which imo is being spoken in...a um different dialect than you are hearing it in, but i would have to marinate for a while to even propose how else it could be read...

    you infer here that you have seen "the truth" but i prolly have not, right
    "beware" i guess maybe
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    see how the naive dialectic reveals what...the way we speak conceals
    possibly
     
  15. Brakelite2

    Brakelite2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm drastically reducing my participation here for a time, and over the last couple of weeks, only reading through the odd thread, so far without comment. Until now. 7 pages of discussion on salvation and unless I missed it, not one person quoted the text that tells us what it is we are actually saved from...
    KJV Matthew 1
    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    The irony is that if someone dare suggest that such a thing is even possible, let alone accomplished... Well, that angel appears as a liar, and "salvation" becomes something akin to being saved from the punishment of sin without the freedom from it. A total contradiction.
     
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  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    then bam complete the kingdom of heaven is within you for us, and wadr the second one was not even a verse
     
  17. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    and im not disagreeing, except that you are now convinced "eternal" means "forever," but i suggest that 969 is about the upper limit for an eternity, at least as far as we are concerned.

    Now does "eternal" also share a synonym with "forever?" from a perspective at least, sure, but, just like all of the instances of the original writing "have faith" being turned into "believe," imo we are fooled into accepting "eternal" (from "aeon," "a space of time") as "forever" in order to maintain a certain perspective
    (that likely is not true)

    a slew of vv promising "few there are who find it" too yeh
    but see youre gonna be singin "When We All Get to Heaven" this next Solday regardless huh
    he said, with complete...look, i am willing to agree that it is surely literal enough, if you are willing to agree that it manifests right now, and not in some future fantasy, zionist or whatever, mithraist, sure fine. See how the "literalists" here turn into the "figurativists" without meaning to? Damned right the NJ is not figurative lol, at least imo. that they may be one as we are one

    so imo the NJ, Olam Haba, whatever, is realer than that chair youre sitting on, yes
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  18. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Being God, He can say that while He has ascended bodily above.




    As dwelling in us so He can be with us always while being in a risen glorified body presently in Heaven

    To engage them in talking to Him. He knew why, but He got them to confess their sins to point out why they said what they did as they were naked because of what they had done.

    As for unapproachable light, they were walking with Him in the garden before the fall. Sin drives us away from God and so the blood of Christ allows us to approach God the Father by Him, the Lamb of God for why our spirits are present with the Lord in Heaven when we die.

    So when the corruptible inherit the incorruptible, that is when we will be able to approach the unapproachable light in our resurrected state rather than just by our spirits.

    1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    meh, so then dont give to an organization, who said anything about organizations lol, and "churches" (and any other inCorporations for that matter) lol pls dont get me started again ok. Give your money to whoever you want to, and seek tax deductions if that seems right to you
    yes, ty, only it doesnt actually work that way i guess, you are automatically "credited" with a certain amount of deductions, unless you choose to itemize, so wadr the credit is really forced upon you i guess

    and since we're on the subject, first time home buyers are not "helped" with down payments for nothing lol, and certainly not for like altruistic reasons
    ill give you $10 if you give me $1000, any day of the week :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  20. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    All I beware of is you haven't addressed 2 Peter 3 rd chapter to prove you are even interested in seeing the truth in His words.

    So prove me wrong and give me a summary of 2 Peter 3rd chapter for how you read it to mean if it isn't as I gleaned it. Read it in Greek and then in Hebrew and even in Klingon if you want to have fun that way, but share your summary of what you believe Peter is talking to you & me about.

    Or just keep posting hit & run zingers because that is more fun for you to do. Hardly edifying or reproving towards me or anyone till you do by scripture.

    2 Peter 3 rd chapter at this link at Bible Gateway;

    Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3 - King James Version

    If you want to read it in Greek in parallel with the written verse in the KJV, then go to this link below. You can scroll down the left column to 2 Peter and then click on 3 for that third chapter and it should bring it up for you to read.

    HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

    If you want it in Hebrew or even Klingon for fun, I don't know where to point you to, for that.
     
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