Do we sow Peace?

[Pisteuo]

Personally I think the division Jesus is speaking of comes when we convert and become no more “of” this world but yet still in it. While you’ve converted not all members of your family may have. Or friends,etc. Division occurs as we become alive in Christ and separates us from the dead of this world.

 

[farouk]

Personally I think the division Jesus is speaking of comes when we convert and become no more “of” this world but yet still in it. While you’ve converted not all members of your family may have. Or friends,etc. Division occurs as we become alive in Christ and separates us from the dead of this world.

This is also why so called ecumenism not based on Biblical doctrine is based on a false premise.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Personally I think the division Jesus is speaking of comes when we convert and become no more “of” this world but yet still in it. While you’ve converted not all members of your family may have. Or friends,etc. Division occurs as we become alive in Christ and separates us from the dead of this world.

Understand what you mean in to be set apart but still...is it not the world that is divided in itself and that house is said to fall... not the house of God, the temple of His body made without hands?

1 Corinthians 1:13
[13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Stranger]

I value your input and I am in no way saying I’m right and you are wrong. I hear what you are saying Stranger. I’ve struggled with these verses. All I’m giving is an opinion maybe it is wrong. But consider for discussion sake...is the word not progressive foward? If bread is not given to dogs and it (or we) stop there we miss that “the dogs eat crumbs from the masters table”.

He said He would bring a sword to divide houses and they (those houses) would fall. It is a good thing but not His House but the enemies that is to fall. His remains built on Peace. Matthew 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. [35] For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. [36] And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Progression of the Word forward in Him saying “tonight many will be offended because of Me” to “He who is blessed IS NOT offended in Me”. A sword to divide. Progression foward if we choose not to stay at a house divided falls to “gather in MY name” and with YOU (those that hear His voice and are called of the Father) I leave Peace. How did they go from offended to not? John 20:21-22
[21] Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. [22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them , and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

To scatter or to gather? We gather in His name in that we are blessed and are not offended in Him. We either scatter or gather. What of Jesus saying He who is against me scatters but He Who gather is for Me? Both have purpose in God’s fulfillment of the Word.

Again just an opinion. How do you see it?

We can sow peace...but not at the expense of Christ. Peace, as long as we agree with Christ. Division, when disagreeing with Christ.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Also I would ask: do we sow division?

Do you follow Christ? Then you will sow division. Correct?

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Do you follow Christ? Then you will sow division. Correct?

Stranger

Do we offend? Most definitely. But that is the point of what I am asking. They are offended at Christ...that is their end, not ours. 1 Corinthians 11:18-19
[18] For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. [19] For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

How are heresies manifest?

 

[Enoch111]

How are heresies manifest?

Through false doctrines. And there are plenty of those.

 

[farouk]

We can sow peace...but not at the expense of Christ. Peace, as long as we agree with Christ. Division, when disagreeing with Christ.

Stranger

Unity without truth in Christian things is a compromise, even a conspiracy...

 

[Frank Lee]

If we could convince the world that we were right in every opinion would the world be a better place? Perhaps, probably in some things but the old saying remains true.

"a man convinced against his will is a man with opinion unchanged still".

 

[Stranger]

Do we offend? Most definitely. But that is the point of what I am asking. They are offended at Christ...that is their end, not ours. 1 Corinthians 11:18-19
[18] For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. [19] For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

How are heresies manifest?

Yes, we offend.

Well, whether it is their end or ours, the division is still made.

Jesus Christ divides. He does not unite.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, we offend.

Well, whether it is their end or ours, the division is still made.

Jesus Christ divides. He does not unite.

Stranger

Then there are a multitude of verses that I’m having trouble reconciling:

(1 Corinthians 14:24-33) “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

Division is confusion. Are we to sow confusion? Same as division. You say we do sow division. But His word says we are to sow peace. James 3:16-18 “For where envying and strife is , there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

We are not to sow ‘evil work’ which goes with ‘confusion’.

Matthew 5:9
[9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

What does Luke 11:23 say to you?
[23] He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

What is offensive about us?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If we could convince the world that we were right in every opinion would the world be a better place? Perhaps, probably in some things but the old saying remains true.

"a man convinced against his will is a man with opinion unchanged still".

It is a good quote. It seems one has to believe to their core. But I have always paused at 1 Corinthians 9:17
[17] For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

 

[Frank Lee]

The only time I do things unwillingly is when I think them to be my own ideas and not God's call. He is not so ready to rebuke us as he observes our genuine desire to please him.

If there is first a willing heart our offering is received by God

 

[Stranger]

Then there are a multitude of verses that I’m having trouble reconciling:

(1 Corinthians 14:24-33) “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

Division is confusion. Are we to sow confusion? Same as division. You say we do sow division. But His word says we are to sow peace. James 3:16-18 “For where envying and strife is , there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

We are not to sow ‘evil work’ which goes with ‘confusion’.

Matthew 5:9
[9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

What does Luke 11:23 say to you?
[23] He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

What is offensive about us?

Of course we are not to sow evil work. But neither are we seeking to bring about any world peace. You understand that satan is quite busy wanting to accomplish that. Why do you think the antichrist will force a mark upon people. To make clear the division.

And, like it or not, as a Bible believing Christian, you will be seen as evil, and doing evil work.

Jesus Christ is what is offensive about us. He divides.

Our message, the Gospel, brings peace with God to the individual, yet at the same time it divides.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The only time I do things unwillingly is when I think them to be my own ideas and not God's call.

Frank I couldn’t sleep last night thinking about your post. 1 Corinthians 9:17 has always been confusing but what you said seems to shine light on “For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.”

If we do this thing willingly ...we have our (immediate)reward. But against our will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed to us. You said you do things unwillingly when it is God’s will and not your own. Yet then you said you do it out of an willing heart to go against your own want. Odd isn’t it. “Against your will” yet from a willing heart. Willing heart in “against my will” : Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt .

Matthew 7:21
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Against our will) from a “willing” heart.

Thank you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Of course we are not to sow evil work. But neither are we seeking to bring about any world peace. You understand that satan is quite busy wanting to accomplish that. Why do you think the antichrist will force a mark upon people. To make clear the division.

And, like it or not, as a Bible believing Christian, you will be seen as evil, and doing evil work.

Jesus Christ is what is offensive about us. He divides.

Our message, the Gospel, brings peace with God to the individual, yet at the same time it divides.

Stranger

You still haven’t said what Luke 11:23 Means to you: He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

Romans 16:17-20
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. [18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. [19] For your obedience is come abroad unto all men . I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. [20] And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

“God of Peace” ...overcome evil with good. How does God bruise Satan under our feet. Isn’t it Love?

Confusion, confounded, to scatter into all the nations...Jeremiah 15:3
[3] And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord : the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.

All the focus is on destruction. But to stop at destruction is to stop short of the restoration of God which is collect that which is broken. That is what I’m harping on and the reason for this thread: our God is a God of restoration. He doesn’t end at destruction. He tears down in order to build up anew. It is who He is.

Mark 9:38-40
[38] And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. [39] But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. [40] For he that is not against us is on our part.

Luke 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

Do you (we) gather, or scatter?

 

[quietthinker]

Frank I couldn’t sleep last night thinking about your post. 1 Corinthians 9:17 has always been confusing but what you said seems to shine light on “For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.”

If we do this thing willingly ...we have our (immediate)reward. But against our will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed to us. You said you do things unwillingly when it is God’s will and not your own. Yet then you said you do it out of an willing heart to go against your own want. Odd isn’t it. “Against your will” yet from a willing heart. Willing heart in “against my will” : Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt .

Matthew 7:21
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Against our will) from a “willing” heart.

Thank you.

I love my pride and notice when relaying certain information that I'm actually seeking glory, although it's usually seen in retrospect. I hate it. I pray that God will take away the self seeking me and speak and behave only in ways that brings him glory. I makes the saying, 'the closer you get to God the more flaws you become aware of' pertinent. It makes all the high minded things an embarrassment. I makes silence in the face of these things a serious consideration.

 

[Stranger]

You still haven’t said what Luke 11:23 Means to you: He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

Romans 16:17-20
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. [18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. [19] For your obedience is come abroad unto all men . I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. [20] And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

“God of Peace” ...overcome evil with good. How does God bruise Satan under our feet. Isn’t it Love?

Confusion, confounded, to scatter into all the nations...Jeremiah 15:3
[3] And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord : the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.

All the focus is on destruction. But to stop at destruction is to stop short of the restoration of God which is collect that which is broken. That is what I’m harping on and the reason for this thread: our God is a God of restoration. He doesn’t end at destruction. He tears down in order to build up anew. It is who He is.

Mark 9:38-40
[38] And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. [39] But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. [40] For he that is not against us is on our part.

Luke 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

Do you (we) gather, or scatter?

Well, I thought I did. The very act of bringing the Gospel results in both 'gathering' and 'dividing'. We as believers make sure that we gather with Christ and divide as Christ divides.

Well, God bruises satan under our feet through love of His people. Not for love of satan. God just doesn't love and so everything is flowers and euphoria. God loves and so His Son is sacrificed causing great grief within God. God loves and so His Son, Jesus Christ shall destroy all the enemies of God, violently and permanently.

When God destroys His enemies....when Jesus Christ destroys His enemies, He does not do it to restore them or rebuild them back up. It is final.

As long as you are talking about God dealing with His people, fine. But don't let that thinking move over to those who are not His people. God's dealings with them are far different.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I love my pride and notice when relaying certain information that I'm actually seeking glory, although it's usually seen in retrospect. I hate it.

Me too. The problem is I’m needy and my motives can be self-seeking. I hate it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well, I thought I did. The very act of bringing the Gospel results in both 'gathering' and 'dividing'. We as believers make sure that we gather with Christ and divide as Christ divides.

Well, God bruises satan under our feet through love of His people. Not for love of satan. God just doesn't love and so everything is flowers and euphoria. God loves and so His Son is sacrificed causing great grief within God. God loves and so His Son, Jesus Christ shall destroy all the enemies of God, violently and permanently.

When God destroys His enemies....when Jesus Christ destroys His enemies, He does not do it to restore them or rebuild them back up. It is final.

As long as you are talking about God dealing with His people, fine. But don't let that thinking move over to those who are not His people. God's dealings with them are far different.

Stranger

I’m not sure if you remember when I first came here to the board.
A Poem

Maybe you think I’m just a softy and want to talk about loving my enemies for the euphoria. That is not it. I don’t want to love those that harm me or my family. It is not an euphoric feeling at all, not when you lay awake at night and your body jerks with the need to get up and do something...to force your will and to make them pay so you will feel satisfied.

The poem. Maybe I’ve slipped from there but that is not how I see it anymore. Someone did pay. The Son. I have questions that may never be answered. I’d ask them here on the board but they are countless and I already ask enough questions.