Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Obedience is righteousness, no one who chooses not to obey will be declared righteous, in fact just the opposite.
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Obedience is righteousness, no one who chooses not to obey will be declared righteous, in fact just the opposite.
First you have to be righteous in order to obey. Only God makes us righteous by putting his Holy Spirit in us. We can never attain righteousness in our own strength or efforts. It can only be imparted to us by God himself when we are reborn spiritually.
But then @Robert Gwin you still will not believe that.
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Righteousness in one respect is Continual obedient ie. (good) behavior ie. (precepts) of a Believer; toward God; and among men.
Righteousness in another respect is having Fulfilled a Work, (Belief) and a Service (Conversion) unto God that commands fulfillment to be delivered From damnation, and Unto salvation.
good points
We need grace to be holy and righteous
Thank God for the sacraments hat give grace to our souls!
also for all God’s help like the virtues and gifts of the spirit
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
What a joke.
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:7-8)
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I am sure you are right maam, you obeyed God and Jesus prior to even knowing them. You actually are correct about something, I still do not believe that. Christians are righteous, and there are steps taken to become Christians, the first of course is hearing the message, then you begin to act on it.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Are you saying God forces us to obey Him Faith? I understood it is our choice sir, so then what is the meaning of those passages?
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Only Christians are declared righteous Taken. All Christians do the will of God Mat 7:21
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Name tags only IMPLY.
“CONVERTED”, is the express one word ACT (of God) that reveals God accounting that person being Righteous.
Matt 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
The Father’s WILL is ...
That men (not Christians, Buddhists, Americans, Chinese, Jews)...rather, ANY earthly man, Believe in Him whom God has Sent.
Glory to God,
Taken
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
2 types of "baptisms"..
One creates IN YOU< the NEW BIRTH< of your Spirit. This is "Spiritual Baptism".. This is God birthing your spirit, into HIS, by the Holy Spirit.
This is to become : Born Again.
See that? something is BORN............again?
Why "again? = Its because you are already born once....but now you have to be BORN AGAIN.....and this birth is caused by God's Holy Spirit.
THEN...
After you have this "New birth" of your spirit, you go and get WATER Baptized, as this is symbolic of having died to sin, and become risen again In Christ".
Notice Acts 8.
Philip and the Eunuch.
The Eunuch knows about the jewish water baptism of JOHN the Baptist, that you find Peter talking about in Acts 2:38.
The Eunuch wants to be water baptized.
Philip says...>"IF you have BELIEVED with all your heart, FIRST"....>"then you may be water baptized".
See that?
FAITH comes first, because God gives you the new birth because you have BELIEVED..
And then, you may be water baptized BECAUSE you have already BELIEVED and been born again.
This Gospel truth is probably the most misunderstood. Many people will never grasp this, nor see the reason why it is possible. That is because imputed righteousness simply blows the mind of many.
The Bible says that we are justified by GRACE through FAITH, and that not of ourselves. It is the GIFT of God, not of works, let any man should boast (Eph 2:8,9). So when a sinner is justified God declares that person to be righteous, and also imputes the righteousness of Christ to that person. And it is only on the basis of the righteousness of Christ that any person can enter Heaven.
Of course, there is much more to salvation, but for many here imputed righteousness is a stumbling block, just like it was to many Jews. That is because it is incompatible with human reasoning. Only the Holy Spirit can show spiritual things to the spiritual person.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
It’s simple actually.
When a lost person hears the gospel all he needs to do is repent, believe, and be baptized. Then his sins are forgiven by the imputation of righteousness from God’s grace.
But now this believer, being made holy by this righteousness he was gifted, must continue faithful in the faith to preserve that holiness which he received.
For if this new holy man decides to pollute himself again with sin, he cannot sincerely repent again seeing he has trampled on the son of God and despise him by his willful act of sin. God is not mocked.
This is the part that “blows your minds”.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
then water baptism is meaningless cos you believe justification is by “faith alone” and not Mk 16:16 faith and baptism???
“Faith alone”
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
It is God who seals us in the waters of baptism
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Jesus says: I remind you you’re still under oath!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
All other grace / graces come only to those who have received the grace of God in baptism
gal 3:27
"Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified. If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE
