Do you speak against "Sinlessness"?

[MatthewG]

Paul no longer had sin IN him when he wrote that.

I don’t agree.

What's important is to be born again of the Spirit. Period. Jesus will finish what He started then.

I would like to see an answer but it’s okay not to get one. I never met a person who never sinned, or a person who claims to never sin. It would make God out to be a liar.

 

[Bob Estey]

Some call Sinlessness "Sinless Perfection" when from day one of being born again of the Spirit that person has been cleansed of ALL Unrighteousness. That person is sinless, because not only does Christ take away our past sins (2 Peter 1:9) but the desire to sin from the sin nature has also been taken away. Our sin nature called the old man has not only been crucified but resurrected sinless. Romans 6:5-7. 1 John 3:1-24, John 8:32-36.

Perfection on the other hand is not from day one, so the phrase "sinless perfection" does not exist until possibly years and years away from walking in the Spirit and becoming more and more into the image of Christ Romans 8:29. Perfection has to do with becoming mature in all of the fruit of the Spirit. 2 Peter 1:5-11 shows the result is never stumbling.

John 15:1-4 shows the Father as the vinegrower of fruit. Notice we are CLEAN. So we are deemed sinless of lawlessness from day one even though our fruit of the Spirit has just been planted and is deemed separate from the major sins of lawlessness.

The natural mind of the majority of people in the church, scoff and laugh at this doctrine of Jesus Christ believing sinlessness is foolishness. 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Samples of False Doctrines by misinterpreting scripture.:
Christians will always sin and to say you're sinless is lying to yourself, 1 John 1:8 and 10, Romans 7:14-25.
We will not be free from sin until we leave these bodies of flesh. Romans 8:10.

You ask, "Did Jesus make you sinless?"

Can I continue to sin, and still claim that Jesus made me sinless?

Can I change the definition of the word "sin" so that I am now sinless?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Can I continue to sin, and still claim that Jesus made me sinless?

Study the Word. Look at the man who is walking in the light/Spirit. Is he sinning? No. Yet Jesus is still cleansing Him from sin. What sin? 1 John 1:7.

Can I change the definition of the word "sin" so that I am now sinless?

Again, study the Word, and check your conscience. Numbers 15:22-29. 1 John 3:4, Romans 14:23 "whatever is not from faith is sin."

 

[MatthewG]

Having faith in following Christ, a person will by choice - choose to sin less (by choice of walking in the spirit), however they will not become sinless (they stilll miss the mark that is unable to be hit in the flesh which Jesus fully hit in the flesh). That is the reality of the subject.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I would like to see an answer but it’s okay not to get one. I never met a person who never sinned, or a person who claims to never sin. It would make God out to be a liar.

Look at what John says about 1 John 1. "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin." 1 John 2:1a So you see someone taught you to twist his words. 1 John 1:7 is a Christian. That verses 1-5 and 7 are all you need to study after 1 John 1:9, how to become a Christian. The other verses you are betting your life on are darkness - verses 6, 8, and 10. Verses 5-10 are verses of contrasts. It is a Jewish writing style.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11. Matthew if you really want to be someone who never stumbles and make your election sure, then study the verses ahead of 10-11 for yourself, and I pray the Spirit opens your heart and mind.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Having faith in following Christ, a person will by choice - choose to sin less (by choice of walking in the spirit), however they will not become sinless (they stilll miss the mark that is unable to be hit in the flesh which Jesus fully hit in the flesh). That is the reality of the subject.

I don't understand your post. You may have a typo.

 

[MatthewG]

Look at what John says about 1 John 1. "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin." 1 John 2:1a So you see someone taught you to twist his words. 1 John 1:7 is a Christian. That verses 1-5 and 7 are all you need to study after 1 John 1:9, how to become a Christian. The other verses you are betting your life on are darkness - verses 6, 8, and 10. Verses 5-10 are verses of contrasts. It is a Jewish writing style.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11. Matthew if you really want to be someone who never stumbles and make your election sure, then study the verses ahead of 10-11 for yourself, and I pray the Spirit opens your heart and mind.

And? Just answer me this question. Do you sin? I can't say I am sinless, and I can't justify myself before God in saying "Hey God I don't sin anymore!"

Are you able to do that before God @1stCenturyLady? You and many others are by far better people than me, if that is the case.

Yes, Jesus Christ will change a persons life, if they abide in him. They won't become perfect in their flesh, but by the spirit the flesh can be held back, and they do not indulge it as much as they used too. They can by the spirit and being a son or daughter of God be 'mature - perfect' in spirit, as they continue to grow from being children into sons or daughters of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Your explanation is reasonable, but includes conjecture which is not actually the case.

A better way to understand this age old issue, is to fully consider the tenets of being born again. It is not that same body of sin that is reborn, as in your comment about being crucified "but resurrected sinless." Paul clearly says, "not that body." In reality, each birth produces a different body, the firstborn a body of flesh, and the born again birth a body of the spirit of God.

Once it is understood that we are not talking only of one body, but of two different bodies, the question of sin (or so called continued sin), is: Which body are your referring to? Because the nature of those born of sinful flesh is not removed, but replaced with an entirely new spiritual body within ("the kingdom of God is within you").

However, the dilemma comes from seeing the body that is seen still sinning, and not accounting for the unseen body within that is not, nor ever could because it is born of God. So....this entire issue only exists among the those shortsighted enough to have missed all the tenets that were preached, among which are "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the spirit is spirit" and "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

You are misinterpreting "body." Think about a popular singing group that write their own songs, like The Beatles. Michael Jackson bought the rights to all of the Beatles "body" of work. Jackson didn't own the bodies of John, Paul, George and Ringo; Michael bought their whole body of works - their catalog.

Try again and read my post again.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And? Just answer me this question. Do you sin? I can't say I am sinless, and I can't justify myself before God in saying "Hey God I don't sin anymore!"

Are you able to do that before God @1stCenturyLady? You and many others are by far better people than me, if that is the case.

Yes, Jesus Christ will change a persons life, if they abide in him. They won't become perfect in their flesh, but by the spirit the flesh can be held back, and they do not indulge it as much as they used too. They can by the spirit and being a son or daughter of God be 'mature - perfect' in spirit, as they continue to grow from being children into sons or daughters of God.

Read Romans 8:9. Is that person alive?

 

[Bob Estey]

Study the Word. Look at the man who is walking in the light/Spirit. Is he sinning? No. Yet Jesus is still cleansing Him from sin. What sin? 1 John 1:7.

Is that yes or no?

 

[MatthewG]

I love the bible @1stCenturyLady. I have read it plenty of times, and have become well-adjusted to what is there.

I do not believe you are stupid, or inadequate. You are a person who has a heart for God, which is wonderful to see, however if you are just going to disregard me, on my questions it may be better for me to just stop talking in general to you on this subject because avoidance doesn't cause growth.

I am a sinner, saved by grace through faith. Jesus in me never sins when he comes in and through me to do the works of God, my flesh fails, but i do not beat myself over that type of stuff, its good to continue to have faith, trust God, and look towards walking in the spirit and not so much in ones flesh.

This is being honest before you and also God who has given believers newness of life through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Bob Estey]

Again, study the Word, and check your conscience. Numbers 15:22-29. 1 John 3:4, Romans 14:23 "whatever is not from faith is sin."

I've already decided. I was trying to get a yes or no from you.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Is that yes or no?

I answered that when I said "Look at the man who is walking in the light/Spirit. Is he sinning? No."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I've already decided. I was trying to get a yes or no from you.

I am not conscious of doing anything wrong in God's eyes and according to His word. IOW I walk in the light, not according to the flesh.

 

[MatthewG]

I am not conscious of doing anything wrong in God's eyes and according to His word. IOW I walk in the light, not according to the flesh.

It's one thing to portray an image on the internet, and another thing when it comes to the involvement of ones own life.

If a person is interested in the topic, you as a person should be able to answer the questions that people ask, or disregard them is the other option.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I love the bible @1stCenturyLady. I have read it plenty of times, and have become well-adjusted to what is there.

I do not believe you are stupid, or inadequate. You are a person who has a heart for God, which is wonderful to see, however if you are just going to disregard me, on my questions it may be better for me to just stop talking in general to you on this subject because avoidance doesn't cause growth.

I am a sinner, saved by grace through faith. Jesus in me never sins when he comes in and through me to do the works of God, my flesh fails, but i do not beat myself over that type of stuff, its good to continue to have faith, trust God, and look towards walking in the spirit and not so much in ones flesh.

This is being honest before you and also God who has given believers newness of life through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

You say you are a sinner. Are you conscious of doing something wrong? Can you stop doing it? @Bob Estey same question.

 

[Bob Estey]

I answered that when I said "Look at the man who is walking in the light/Spirit. Is he sinning? No."

I believe that, too.

 

[MatthewG]

You say you are a sinner. Are you conscious of doing something wrong? Can you stop doing it? @Bob Estey same question.

I can't keep up with every sin, but when I am wronging my neighbor intentionally I am conscious of it. The Holy spirit even lets me know of my wrongful actions. Doesn't mean I will beat myself over it, however to reconcile if it is possible is a route to take, abiding in Christ. Or become dead to that sin is also an option, but I will never be sinless which you love to speak of which on the internet anyone can portray a so called 'godly image'.

 

[Bob Estey]

I am not conscious of doing anything wrong in God's eyes and according to His word. IOW I walk in the light, not according to the flesh.

It is refreshing to hear someone say that.

How would you define the "His Word"?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It's one thing to portray an image on the internet, and another thing when it comes to the involvement of ones own life.

If a person is interested in the topic, you as a person should be able to answer the questions that people ask, or disregard them is the other option.

You may be putting your best foot forward on the internet, but after a while we can tell by their fruit if they have fruit of the Spirit or not.

Are you afraid to say you do not consciously sin because you would be calling God a liar? Romans 3:21-26, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"? That is BEFORE accepting Christ and God takes away all your past sins, even the desire that the sin nature use to produce in you. A person born of the Spirit of God no longer desires to practice anything against holy living, as in Galatians 5:19-21