thelord's_pearl
Well-Known Member
but I definitely believe that when we're in Christ, we're a new creation because we don't deliberately/intentionally sin anymore. There's effort involved that can make the difference.
Do you speak against "Sinlessness"?
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Good topic. Good documentation.
Sister is one mean muscle car. I'm just teasing.
2 Corinthians chapter 4:4 . god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not.
Essentially speaking. Many people are in Bondage to satan. They don't have the holy spirit. Only Jesus can germinate seeds that servant of God plant. Many seeds don't germinate. Jesus has His reasons.
John 16;13 . Jesus gives the spirt of truth. Which is the holy spirit.
16:8 . Jesus will judge the world. On judgement day. Those who refuse to repent and declare satan their king, go into lake of fire, revelation chapter 20.
John chapter 14:26. Comforter, which is the holy spirit.
Teach you and gude you. Get the picture.
1 Corinthians chapter 2:12. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirt which is of God;
See the connection between Jesus teachings and apostles Paul ??
2:14. But the natural man received not the things of the spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spirtualty Discerned.
Very few people have holy spirit. Many people are in Bondage to satan.
Romans chapter 11 to document, God's Election have holy spirit.
God's election are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world. The election have holy spirit.
Some seeds won't germinate. Few might germinate in 10 years or 40 years. It's God's business.
God has His reason's why many people have spirtual blindness.
Sister is one mean muscle car. I'm just teasing.
2 Corinthians chapter 4:4 . god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not.
Essentially speaking. Many people are in Bondage to satan. They don't have the holy spirit. Only Jesus can germinate seeds that servant of God plant. Many seeds don't germinate. Jesus has His reasons.
John 16;13 . Jesus gives the spirt of truth. Which is the holy spirit.
16:8 . Jesus will judge the world. On judgement day. Those who refuse to repent and declare satan their king, go into lake of fire, revelation chapter 20.
John chapter 14:26. Comforter, which is the holy spirit.
Teach you and gude you. Get the picture.
1 Corinthians chapter 2:12. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirt which is of God;
See the connection between Jesus teachings and apostles Paul ??
2:14. But the natural man received not the things of the spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spirtualty Discerned.
Very few people have holy spirit. Many people are in Bondage to satan.
Romans chapter 11 to document, God's Election have holy spirit.
God's election are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world. The election have holy spirit.
Some seeds won't germinate. Few might germinate in 10 years or 40 years. It's God's business.
God has His reason's why many people have spirtual blindness.
thelord's_pearl
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting topic for me to try to learn and I always liked to learn from you 1stCenturyLady and look up to you.
What I mean is that as a Christian we will have a conscience in all our ways so that's why we won't sin deliberately and intentionally anymore. Then comes the discipline which effort is involved and exercising what we're called and lead by God to do in our life and in our relationships with and to others and we have the fruit of the Spirit. This is the molding and maturation process.
There's also the scripture which tells us that God who started a good work in us will bring it to completion so whatever that completion is, we need to run the good race that is set before us to that completion in order to get to heaven.
"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2
In this scripture, we see that we will be like Him "when Christ appears" so it's possible to be sinless but not perfect as we will always have waging war b/t the flesh and the Spirit but God promises that He will not tempt us beyond what we can resist or endure. Upon analyzing, Jesus seemed to face temptation too but he was perfect, never falling. We, however, may fall but get better over time. Can we become perfect afterwards in this life? I don't know. Just my thoughts
What I mean is that as a Christian we will have a conscience in all our ways so that's why we won't sin deliberately and intentionally anymore. Then comes the discipline which effort is involved and exercising what we're called and lead by God to do in our life and in our relationships with and to others and we have the fruit of the Spirit. This is the molding and maturation process.
There's also the scripture which tells us that God who started a good work in us will bring it to completion so whatever that completion is, we need to run the good race that is set before us to that completion in order to get to heaven.
"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2
In this scripture, we see that we will be like Him "when Christ appears" so it's possible to be sinless but not perfect as we will always have waging war b/t the flesh and the Spirit but God promises that He will not tempt us beyond what we can resist or endure. Upon analyzing, Jesus seemed to face temptation too but he was perfect, never falling. We, however, may fall but get better over time. Can we become perfect afterwards in this life? I don't know. Just my thoughts
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Paul was a great man so they held onto his words. Many have equated his words with God's words. That would be fine if Paul was never wrong. I find it hard to believe, though, that God told Paul to say this:Jesus quotes are solid for sure!
You don't have to believe me, but God has given me a gift to hear His voice since 1977 when I was 30 and born again of the Spirit. In 2000 I was driving through the desert going from Arizona back to Los Angeles to go to a Spirit-filled Living Conference and God spoke to me and said, "I am giving you the office of teacher." After that I wrote my first book from asking questions and Him giving me the answers. I didn't know anything about speaking in tongues until he taught me everything there is to know on the subject over a period of 7 years. It is called "The Hidden Mystery Behind Tongues." Its on Amazon. Anyway, I also found out about Christian forums and about 10 years ago signed up with Christian Mingle when they weren't just a dating site and had forums. Then others over the years. Many men would post against my being a woman and teaching men. Well, as you know I don't want to sin so I asked God why He gave me the office of teacher if He told Paul women can't teach men. God immediately said, "I didn't tell him that." So then I knew Paul was giving his own opinion to Timothy. God keeps 'downloading' more an more truths from His word about His gospel. In comparison to the Old Covenant, the New is supernatural and very easy to keep, because He does all righteousness through us.
[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[36] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 1 Cor 14:33-36 RSV
I have no doubt that you teach, but we aren't to call ourselves teachers, are we?:
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. Matt 23:8 RSV
I like that stretch in southern Arizona from Yuma to Casa Grande. I made the trip a couple of times, headed east. I enjoyed the Saguaro forests. You don't want to make that trip till October at the earliest, I don't think. It gets awfully hot down there. What is a lady from Tennessee doing in Arizona?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I don't dabble in what I "think."
But throughout His ministry Jesus referred to many things in two's which ends in "two shall be in a field, one shall be taken and the other left..." etc., meaning the fleshly children and lineage of Adam all of whom God has condemned to die, indeed die, return to the dust, and are left to be dissolved with the elements of this world, while those in Christ (born of the spirit of God) are take (caught up with Him in the clouds of heaven) becoming One with Him in God. There are details...such as Paul's clarification stating, "but each one in his own order", much of which lost in the mistranslation of the terms and thinking of this would-be world timeline, and the timelessness and eternal terms of God--but that is the gist of it.
thelord's_pearl
Well-Known Member
So in scripture it says He who began a good work in us will bring it to completion on the day of Christ and it also says in the bible that we all fall short of the glory of God so that seems to mean that we won't be sinless until the day of Christ.
I can see why you should not go by what you think, because those who are taken are destroyed. Read it in context. Scripture will explain scripture if you take away what you think.
Luke 17: 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and DESTROYED them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and TOOK them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be TAKEN and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be TOOK and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Luke 17:36-3736 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” (Where are they "taken"?)
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Without our help.?
Don’t you mean without the help of the Holy Spirit?
It’s the Holy Spirit who brings our will in line with God’s.....that can take years..plus we have to understand what it means first?
Only the Holy Spirit can convict us of sin.......and the closer we are to God....the less we sin.
As God started a work in us...only HE can bring it to completion.......
The Holy Spirit brings us closer to God...as he helps us submit to God’s ways.....our old man keeps on dying....darn flesh.
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Remember when I said that verses 34 and 35 disturbs the flow of thought? Let's take out those two verses and see how it reads.
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Scholars agree that those two verses about women were added.
Bob, If you want to call me Rabbi great
however, when I heard God's voice He said Teacher. He knows all languages as He invented them it seems.I met my second husband at 20th Century Fox in California. He had great hands and fixed my back, where my chiropractor couldn't. Anyway, I convinced him to become a chiropractor and after he graduated we moved to the mountains of Arizona where he set up shop. He had gone there as a child and loved the mountains there.
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You are speaking the truth. It is the Holy Spirit in us that works through us.
False teaching though still keeps the commandments and other laws in their own willpower.
This is what can take years though God says we are CLEAN of sins unto death if you are abiding in Him and are born again of the Spirit:
2 Peter 1:5-7
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control [a]perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
When you are finally mature in all of those verse 10 says you will never stumble.
So added to CLEAN, we then NEVER STUMBLE. That to me is perfect.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can say that the entire Bible is God's word, and then remove two verses.Remember when I said that verses 34 and 35 disturbs the flow of thought? Let's take out those two verses and see how it reads.
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Scholars agree that those two verses about women were added.
Bob, If you want to call me Rabbi great
I met my second husband at 20th Century Fox in California. He had great hands and fixed my back, where my chiropractor couldn't. Anyway, I convinced him to become a chiropractor and after he graduated we moved to the mountains of Arizona where he set up shop. He had gone there as a child and loved the mountains there.
Jesus said we have one teacher - I think he was referring to himself. That doesn't mean we don't learn from each other.
You married an actor?
My first husband was a Nashville recording artist and Los Angeles actor. After our divorce I dated many. But my second husband was not an actor. We just both worked at the studio.
Did you notice how it flows better without those two verses or not?
As I told you, my conscience is clear in teaching men, because God is the one who gave me the office.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I did not notice how it flows better without those two verses because I believe Paul wrote them. The Bible says this letter was written by Paul, and if someone else wrote those two verses, then the Bible isn't being truthful. One thing I know about the Bible - it is truthful, even if I disagree with one or two of Paul's statements.
You can teach men as much as you want, but I don't think you should call yourself a teacher. As a matter of fact, you might be more effective if you don't call yourself a teacher.
The funny thing is there are some teachers and even pastors in the Church who were never given their office by God.
Bob, your first sentence doesn't make sense to me. Read it and see if you meant something else.
I still say this flows better without the verses I removed. Did you notice before that I removed them, or did you read what I copied and pasted and thought it was the original?
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
The Bible says Paul wrote those words. The Bible doesn't lie, so I don't think anyone added two verses to what Paul said.
Do we have to agree with everything Paul said? Some websites will ban you if you suggest Paul might have been wrong once or twice.
I'm going by what Paul said of himself and his letters.
1 Corinthians 7:12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say:...
So we know that God didn't inspire EVERY word Paul wrote. And the cultural verses about women were not commandments for all time, but to those in that culture where women were illiterate. Bob, you believe what you like about those verses. BTW, they are the only writings of Paul that I've asked God about and got an immediate answer, so I'll obey what God told me directly. I don't blame you for believing what you read. God is still teaching me and still talking to me regularly so I'll keep writing my books on His interpretation of His Word that men through the ages have twisted. God will answer prayers that are according to His will. About 10 years ago after finding out about the many odd doctrines in the Church I found through the forums that were the opposite of what Jesus taught that were obviously doctrines of demons - the "T" in Calvinism being the worst, that prayed and asked God to cleanse my mind of any off doctrines I was taught, and Bod, it was like an explosion of truth kept coming and hasn't stopped. What I believe today is not taught in any church except one. For a long time I thought I was the only one that taught these corrective truths of what God as the Author meant. A missionary friend of mine who was raised Lutheran but was Spirit-filled told me that she didn't understand what I taught, but that she receives material from a church in Texas and she doesn't understand what they teach either, but that they teach the exact same thing I do! I was flabbergasted! So I got on their mailing list to receive their materials and she was right. And the funny thing is, like me they do not teach anything that God hasn't shown them first. God speaks to them the same teachings He teaches me! We are bringing holiness back into the Church because Jesus is coming soon for His spotless Bride.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
You have it backwards.
You are confusing the taking away of the flood (of the Spirit) with the taking away of the ark (the catching away).
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