Do you still sin?

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Dcopymope

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He made a statement of faith. Notice that Jesus did not engage the other person being crucified.

Great, so I can't get a straight answer of you as expected. All the religions in this world can boiled down to two types, "Do" and "Done". According to the gospel, the work on the cross was "done", according to the likes of you, there is still something we have to "do" and you can't even tell me what the hell that is.
 

aspen

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We need to engage in a relationship with God - just like the thief you mentioned.

This is the process for sanctification
 
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bbyrd009

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ya, i'd just go with "i'm saved forever, because i did all the approved things in some church umpty-ump years ago, and Jesus is about to come magically whisk me away from all of my cares. And all of those passages about needing works are misunderstood."

sheesh
 
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H. Richard

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A person must place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work that Jesus did for mankind on the cross. Nothing less and nothing more. Salvation was completed on the cross. But does mankind really believe it???

Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
NKJV

Iniquity = sin

1 John 1:7-10
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

Question, do people trust in what Jesus did on the cross or do they trust in their religion?
 
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Dcopymope

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A person must place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work that Jesus did for mankind on the cross. Nothing less and nothing more. Salvation was completed on the cross. But does mankind really believe it???

Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
NKJV

Iniquity = sin

1 John 1:7-10
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

Question, do people trust in what Jesus did on the cross or do they trust in their religion?

Too many people seem conflicted between the grace offered on the cross and the pride of life within them telling them otherwise. Whenever they espouse a "do" belief system, they forget the saying by Paul that within their flesh dwells nothing good, and henceforth, when it comes to salvation, nothing good will come of it. They are too proud of the things done in the flesh to truly accept the ransom paid for their soul by the blood of the lamb of God.
 
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KBCid

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man i knew Catholics held Mary to be a god too, but i did not realize it extended this far. Yikes.

Lol the light has shone.
The traditions of man are quite far reaching. Hey let's pray to Mary just as we are told to do from the bible... and while we are at it let's make the Sabbath day sunday... just because God made the 7th day holy is no reason for man not to change it to any day he feels like right?
Come to think of it let us put figures of mankind in the churches and see if people will pray to them too.... we will call them saints to make it all sound official.
 

KBCid

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ya, i'd just go with "i'm saved forever, because i did all the approved things in some church umpty-ump years ago, and Jesus is about to come magically whisk me away from all of my cares. And all of those passages about needing works are misunderstood." sheesh

I believe I like your spirit.
 

KBCid

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Sin is the spiritual thought and or physical action that is in opposition to God's command.

Mankind was given the original 10 commandments with their accompanying law of Moses to define what sin is. It was written that before the law came, sin could not be imputed because there was nothing to inform the people what defined sin.
Essentially God gave the law so that mankind could understand his ways and if they loved him they would change theirs to match his. The unfortunate part of the action was that people inferred that sin was an outward appearance of actions only so they only changed their outward actions to match God's laws and all the while they were sinning inside with no worries about their eternal life. This is part of the message that God's Son came to inform us about as we can see in the NT references below.

Matthew 6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 6:5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Matthew 6:16 "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Matthew 23:5 "But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments.
Matthew 23:27 - "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
Matthew 23:28 "So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Luke 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

This is why works cannot gain a person eternal life however, if a person matches or does their best to match God in their being then their outward actions will by default also match with God.

So, in the old testament the prevailing error of mankind was believing that all they had to perform to gain eternal life was simply the outward appearance of holiness. In the new testament the prevailing error has changed to a much simpler one. Now the only action one needs to perform in their existence is believing in Christ and they are auto-saved.
Men have formed a tradition that they teach where no amount of effort or works on the part of the believer has any effect on attaining eternal life. You only need to accept that your flesh is sinful and that as long as you believe in Christ your soul will be saved thus, one can go about on their merry way sinning and simply ask for forgiveness every so often and POOF they are auto-saved. This tradition essentially allows that people can sin the same exact sins for their entire life without any worries of being held accountable because it is in the flesh and what can we do about sinful flesh? They simply assert that Christ will overcome their sinful flesh for them. No effort required. What a wonderful God he is for these people.

Now if simply believing is the only necessary action required to gain eternal life then this scripture makes no sense;

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Obviously each of those who appear before Christ in the day foretold about had to be people that believed in him since they were doing what "THEY THOUGHT" he wanted them to do and they are arguing for their salvation with assertions that they were doing God's will.
And what is this iniquity the verse speaks of? If one is auto-saved simply by holding a belief in Christ then how can one do any iniquity? Didn't Christ die to remove the sin/iniquity from those who believe?

There is also another scripture that makes no sense if belief only is all that's required;
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Why should the way to life be spoken of as narrow in scripture when anyone can simply do the auto-save by believing in Christ and asking for forgiveness?

Maybe a clue can be gained from this scripture;
1 Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hmmm... we need to run? strive for mastery? bring my body into subjection? aren't these the performing of actions both inward and outward? but I have been told so many times that I don't have to perform any outward actions any more because the law of Moses was done away with and isn't Christ supposed to conquer my sinful flesh for me? Ah the traditions of men, gotta have'em.....
 

bbyrd009

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I believe I like your spirit.
ha well ty, but i'd be careful there, i am pretty much a jerk trying to fake it, and pulling it off every now and then i guess. That came from a spirit of frustration and sarcasm; but i just don't know a better way to get the point across without writing like a whole page lol.
 

H. Richard

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Sin is the spiritual thought and or physical action that is in opposition to God's command.

Mankind was given the original 10 commandments with their accompanying law of Moses to define what sin is. It was written that before the law came, sin could not be imputed because there was nothing to inform the people what defined sin.
Essentially God gave the law so that mankind could understand his ways and if they loved him they would change theirs to match his. The unfortunate part of the action was that people inferred that sin was an outward appearance of actions only so they only changed their outward actions to match God's laws and all the while they were sinning inside with no worries about their eternal life. This is part of the message that God's Son came to inform us about as we can see in the NT references below.

Matthew 6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 6:5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Matthew 6:16 "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Matthew 23:5 "But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments.
Matthew 23:27 - "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
Matthew 23:28 "So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Luke 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

This is why works cannot gain a person eternal life however, if a person matches or does their best to match God in their being then their outward actions will by default also match with God.

So, in the old testament the prevailing error of mankind was believing that all they had to perform to gain eternal life was simply the outward appearance of holiness. In the new testament the prevailing error has changed to a much simpler one. Now the only action one needs to perform in their existence is believing in Christ and they are auto-saved.
Men have formed a tradition that they teach where no amount of effort or works on the part of the believer has any effect on attaining eternal life. You only need to accept that your flesh is sinful and that as long as you believe in Christ your soul will be saved thus, one can go about on their merry way sinning and simply ask for forgiveness every so often and POOF they are auto-saved. This tradition essentially allows that people can sin the same exact sins for their entire life without any worries of being held accountable because it is in the flesh and what can we do about sinful flesh? They simply assert that Christ will overcome their sinful flesh for them. No effort required. What a wonderful God he is for these people.

Now if simply believing is the only necessary action required to gain eternal life then this scripture makes no sense;

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Obviously each of those who appear before Christ in the day foretold about had to be people that believed in him since they were doing what "THEY THOUGHT" he wanted them to do and they are arguing for their salvation with assertions that they were doing God's will.
And what is this iniquity the verse speaks of? If one is auto-saved simply by holding a belief in Christ then how can one do any iniquity? Didn't Christ die to remove the sin/iniquity from those who believe?

There is also another scripture that makes no sense if belief only is all that's required;
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Why should the way to life be spoken of as narrow in scripture when anyone can simply do the auto-save by believing in Christ and asking for forgiveness?

Maybe a clue can be gained from this scripture;
1 Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hmmm... we need to run? strive for mastery? bring my body into subjection? aren't these the performing of actions both inward and outward? but I have been told so many times that I don't have to perform any outward actions any more because the law of Moses was done away with and isn't Christ supposed to conquer my sinful flesh for me? Ah the traditions of men, gotta have'em.....


Who was the Law of Moses given too?? When a person stays in the 4 gospels they will miss the free gift of salvation God purchased for them on the cross.

Salvation under grace is only found in the writings of Paul. If a person can not see the difference they will never see the truth. Paul said his gospel was HIDDEN in God and revealed to him. But the religious ignore the words HIDDEN.

Eph 3:9-10
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
NKJV

Eph 3:8-11 - Purpose of the Mystery
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
NKJV

Col 1:26-27
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

NKJV
 

bbyrd009

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Lol the light has shone.
The traditions of man are quite far reaching. Hey let's pray to Mary just as we are told to do from the bible... and while we are at it let's make the Sabbath day sunday... just because God made the 7th day holy is no reason for man not to change it to any day he feels like right?
Come to think of it let us put figures of mankind in the churches and see if people will pray to them too.... we will call them saints to make it all sound official.
ya...but where is the line? We are told that God does not judge like we do, and as weird as it seems that system also produces or at least includes good hearted people, at about the rate of any other monotheistic dogma. At least imo. How it might be included in the definition of "Christian" i don't really understand; are Mormons considered Christian? Would they be offended at not being considered Christians? I honestly don't know.
 

Peanut

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The scriptures, God's word, calls us saints, not sinners, once we've been received into God's grace and washed clean of our sins that the Father remembers no more.
How then , when God's only begotten son took the sins of the world upon himself on the cross, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life, can we state of ourselves we are still what we were before our redemption? Before were were justified by God.
Romans 8:33–34 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
 

Sword

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Romans 6 / Ephesians 10 tells us we are not sinners. God says we are holy and beyond reproach. sons of God brothr of Christ. Joint aires with Christ.
 

KBCid

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ya...but where is the line? We are told that God does not judge like we do, and as weird as it seems that system also produces or at least includes good hearted people, at about the rate of any other monotheistic dogma. At least imo. How it might be included in the definition of "Christian" i don't really understand; are Mormons considered Christian? Would they be offended at not being considered Christians? I honestly don't know.

Ah the line.......... _______ dotted or solid?

Here is the wisdom that most do not understand between the old testament commandments and the new testament commandments. The old testament commandments were essentially pieces of greater commandments. they were the dotted line that was to act as a schoolmaster for children who needed to begin their understanding with milk. When we are children we are taught what most would consider elementary rules/laws to give us a working understanding of what the purpose of laws are. Those original commandments of God were instated to prepare man for the graduation to the commandments that Christ gave. Christ came to magnify / expand the law to it full meaning.

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Every single last commandment contained in the Decalogue is contained within the intent of those two great commandments.
Christ commanded that we are to obey the intent of those two commandments and I would ask what commandment within the original Decalogue could anyone assert that cannot be included within them.
Christ gave us the solid line that we are to work at attaining and he has promised a helper to assist us in our efforts.
Thus, you have the solid line in the sand. How you choose to stand before it whether to the front or the back or even both sides at the same time is your God given freedom of choice.
 
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KBCid

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are Mormons considered Christian? Would they be offended at not being considered Christians? I honestly don't know.

Only in their own minds. and yes they would be offended.
I spent an entire year studying the origins of the Mormon cult. A painfully funny part of that learning was when it was described how joseph smith the leader of the cult at the time would send the husbands of believing families to places like California to preach his truth and while they were gone he would convince their wives that it was their god directed duty to sexually service him. One of the husbands returned after a year of absence to find his wife pregnant. sounds pretty christiany no?
One other point that is quite a stretch for most is their concept that their god was a man who evolved to become a god and that at some point each of the believers will get their own world to rule as god lol.

You have heard about the narrow gate and the wide gate right.... well these believers are vying to miss even the wide one.
 

bbyrd009

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ah, well, sad to say, i only ID as "Christian" here with reservations.
Thank God that He judges differently, or i guess we would all prolly be considered cultic.
 

KBCid

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but it's likely also throwing away a plastic bottle too, or even ignoring someone

God considers intent as a primary thing. This is where the holy spirit / helper can be of great help.