Do you think "Near-Death Experiences" (NDEs) are valid or not? What should Christians make of them?

[LouisWilliams]

Near-Death Experiences seem to be increasingly popular among Americans and other nations. Basically, someone has a close encounter with death -- or is clinically dead, but they are able to revitalize and revive themselves after an otherworldly experience, often with deceased relatives or religious figures, such as Jesus Christ or Mother Mary.

When I was younger, in high school, I read some of these experiences, but I haven't for a while now - although I still remember some of these accounts, and I sometimes wonder, whether they do contain a deeper reality that someone people underestimate.

For example, Howard Storm was an avowed atheist and professor who had a very negative experience in another dark realm, but was saved after calling out to Jesus, and had a review of his life, and his mistakes and failures. He transformed himself into an entirely new person and a better husband and a much more deeply religious man, even becoming a Christian pastor for years afterwards.

His book actually inspired me a lot when I was younger, and perhaps millions of others also, it was very popular at one point, actually, in the United States.

https://www.amazon.com/My-Descent-Into-Death-Second-ebook/dp/B000FCJZKO/

But what do most people here think of them? I know obviously some Christians argue that they should not be trusted, they are likely a hallucination or perhaps a deception of some kind. But are some of them, like Howard Storm's account at least, possibly valid?

 

[marks]

I make nothing of them. I've never heard a single one that doesn't have some conflict with the Bible in it's details. I'm open to the idea, but I don't think they are real. At the end of the day, I don't know what they are, but I can quite comfortably not be concerned, and just keep with learning the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Addy]

I think God works in mysterious ways... and it is AMAZING and WONDERFUL... and AND.... MARVELOUS....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think there may be something to some of them…
An apostle says he was taken to the third heaven and has no idea if he was in his body or out of his body or what the heck, but that he saw things.

 

[Naomi25]

I have not heard of one I would be able to credit scripturally. But…while I voted ‘no’ on that account…I suppose I must not discount that there might be those that are valid. I have not, after all, heard everything. And I can have no true knowledge of what God does or does not use to bring those to him. I suppose I’d just take each one as they came and judge them against scripture…any account that is not in any way God honouring and scripturally compatible must be left alone, i feel.

 

[Aunty Jane]

what do most people here think of them? I know obviously some Christians argue that they should not be trusted, they are likely a hallucination or perhaps a deception of some kind.

What is good to keep in mind is that these are NEAR DEATH experiences....not AFTER DEATH experiences.

People are not brain dead when these things take place, and science can attest that a dying, oxygen starved brain releases chemicals that can create hallucinations or delusions. This would account for the diverse experiences reported whilst the brain is still active, even though the person is in an altered state of consciousness.

The other thing of interest is that many who have these experiences, relate to things in their own religion, so Jesus and God are often not present, for believers of other faiths....but one common thing reportedly seen, is "the LIGHT". Could that be from God? I don't think so.....

2 Corinthians 11:14-15...Paul warned that false ministers of Christ would disguise themselves as "servants of righteousness"....
"And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.."

So there is satan pretending to be "an angel of light" in order to convince people of things that are not true. He uses his false ministers to spread lies about what happens after we die, so that the devil's lie in Eden becomes the truth.

 

[Curtis]

Today they have accumulated and documented examples of NDEs where the person saw and heard things and conversations they couldn’t possibly have seen or heard from their bed or operating table, so it’s evident they did leave their body while dead.

Of course soul sleep adherents deny such a thing is possible, and atheists try to deny it can happen, but now the data shows that people’s experience with it can’t be explained away by hallucinations or the brain function continuing longer than is thought.

 

[Curtis]

People are not brain dead when these things take place, and science can attest that a dying, oxygen starved brain releases chemicals that can create hallucinations or delusions. This would account for the diverse experiences reported whilst the brain is still active, even though the person is in an altered state of consciousness.

There’s too much documentation today after decades of research, of people hearing conversations in other rooms and floors, and of accurately describing things they couldn’t possibly have seen from their bed or operating table, so the hallucination theory and active brain after death theory has been discounted for years now.

Of course soul sleepers are forced to deny,deny, deny.

 

[Truman]

I've noticed that these "experts" who speak with authority that these experiences are not real haven't had them themselves.
Reminds me of the "drug experts" in the church who may have smoked a few joints in their time but only succeed in messing up lives.
If you really don't know what you're talking about, maybe you should be quiet.

 

[Berserk]

The evidence for post-mortem survival from NDEs and ADCs (after-death communications) is far, far superior to the evidence for Jesus' resurrection (which, however, is of course far more important). In my experience of witnessing, sharing the most evidential NDEs and ADCs is the most effective evangelistic tool for persuading skeptics, especially educated skeptics. The widespread ignorance of this evidence of posters on this site prompts me to start a new thread on NDEs and ADCs to demonstrate why this is true. So stay tuned for my pending new thread.

 

[Taken]

Do you think "Near-Death Experiences" (NDEs) are valid or not? What should Christians make of them?
OP ^

I think the possibility IS possible.
We can call it...clinically dead, or near death, but not "pronounced" by a professional as "clinically dead"...

As far as someone having such an "experience"... yes.
Even Scripture reveals cases of a person being bodily dead...then revived and again bodily alive.
(1 Kings 17:22)
And being bodily dead...and buried for 4 days...then revived and again bodily alive.
(John 11:44)

As far as the "person", relaying "their "DETAILED" experience while....("books, movies" etc...) "DEAD"...
* I lean more toward, "embellishments and coaching", being involved.

I do believe, the LIVING SOUL, does leave a dead body and continue living...

BUT DO NOT RECALL, one Scriptural instance, OF an OUT OF BODY "living soul", having returned to the body, and THAT bodily living PERSON, being Able to Recount and Speak of his "out of body, souls experience".

 

[Aunty Jane]

There’s too much documentation today after decades of research, of people hearing conversations in other rooms and floors, and of accurately describing things they couldn’t possibly have seen from their bed or operating table, so the hallucination theory and active brain after death theory has been discounted for years now.

Of course soul sleepers are forced to deny,deny, deny.

There are other explanations. Who do you suppose is waiting in the wings to become the "angel of light" which many who have these NDE's see and hear? He is an opportunist. You don't think the demons can convey "conversations in other rooms and floors, and of accurately describing things they couldn’t possibly have seen from their bed or operating table".....then you are seriously underestimating your enemy.
Deception is his stock in trade and making people believe that the dead are still alive is just a perpetuation of his first lie....to believe him is to call God a liar.
There is a certain kind of 'blindness'......this prompts denial, denial, denial.....(2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

Would God forbid communication with the dead, (necromancy) if they were really just dead friends or relatives.....?

If you cannot see from the scriptures that there is no immediate life after death, then there is not much more to say....except that you have no idea what the resurrection is all about.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Today they have accumulated and documented examples of NDEs where the person saw and heard things and conversations they couldn’t possibly have seen or heard from their bed or operating table, so it’s evident they did leave their body while dead.

Of course soul sleep adherents deny such a thing is possible, and atheists try to deny it can happen, but now the data shows that people’s experience with it can’t be explained away by hallucinations or the brain function continuing longer than is thought.

My mother has related her experience many times. It was during the birth of my baby brother. He was quite large and there were complications. This was in the mid 70's. She said that she came up out if her body and was floating toward a tunnel and a bright light. Before entering the tunnel, she could see her body and the doctors around her. She began to go down the tunnel when she heard the flat line and one of the doctors counting off how many times the cord was around the baby's neck ... "1, 2, 3…." and then she heard them say it was a 10lb 3oz baby boy. She began calling my dad's name and my name, my older sister's name over and iver until she was back in the body. The doctor said a cuss word.... "D..... that's the first time I've ever seen one come back on their own!"

Many years passed and throughout my growing up, I heard relatives say she was lying. So when I was in my teens, she finally got the medical record which verified her story, down to the cord being around my brother's neck 3 times.

Idk what the tunnel and bright light means .... I've heard people say that so many times. But in 2006, when my blood pressure bottomed out after a surgery to remove a cyst, I was with Jesus for ....idk how long. When I was with Him, it was just beautiful ...peaceful, restful, yet fully aware and present. I knew that my life had been full of trials and trauma and yet I didn't feel the "sting" or sorrow of it....of that makes sense. But I knew I had been so weary and I asked Jesus if my children would be okay without me. He said that I could stay with Him a little longer, but I would have to go back.

When I was with the Lord, I was fully aware. But when I was back in my body, I was so cold and my brain was foggy, didn't know what happened, etc.....and the male nurse to my right looked so concerned and was so relieved when I was fully back in my body. He said, "We thought we lost you!" I couldn't grasp yet what had happened. I had a BP machine hooked up to me, an IV and oxygen in my nose.

I have drawn from that experience of being with the Lord and the fact that once I was with Him, the former sorrow was gone. I didn't have "divine amnesia" or anything. I just didn't feel the sorrow or sting of life's traumas and sadnesses. It's a comfort to me now, after my son passed away at age 17, to know that all the pain of the suffering he experienced is gone. It was just a moment compared to eternity. He ran his race and now he's Home.

 

[TLHKAJ]

There are other explanations. Who do you suppose is waiting in the wings to become the "angel of light" which many who have these NDE's see and hear? He is an opportunist. You don't think the demons can convey "conversations in other rooms and floors, and of accurately describing things they couldn’t possibly have seen from their bed or operating table".....then you are seriously underestimating your enemy.
Deception is his stock in trade and making people believe that the dead are still alive is just a perpetuation of his first lie....to believe him is to call God a liar.
There is a certain kind of 'blindness'......this prompts denial, denial, denial.....(2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

Would God forbid communication with the dead, (necromancy) if they were really just dead friends or relatives.....?

If you cannot see from the scriptures that there is no immediate life after death, then there is not much more to say....except that you have no idea what the resurrection is all about.

I would have to agree in some ways with what you said. My mother wasn't serving the Lord at the time of her NDE ....she actually flatlined. The tunnel and the "light at the end of the tunnel" seems like a deception, because scripture says that being absent from the body, we are present with Christ. My experience was very different than my mom's. I didn't hover over my body, didn't float and hear things in the room, etc ....I was immediately with Jesus.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I would have to agree in some ways with what you said. My mother wasn't serving the Lord at the time of her NDE ....she actually flatlined. The tunnel and the "light at the end of the tunnel" seems like a deception, because scripture says that being absent from the body, we are present with Christ. My experience was very different than my mom's. I didn't hover over my body, didn't float and hear things in the room, etc ....I was immediately with Jesus.

Do you think that the deceiver can play tricks on a compromised mind? These NDE's always happen those who are facing a serious near death health crisis.
If he can play the role of an "angel of light", do you think he can fool people into believing he is Jesus? If satan is in "disguise" and is a clever con artist, do you think that is possible?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Do you think that the deceiver can play tricks on a compromised mind? These NDE's always happen those who are facing a serious near death health crisis.
If he can play the role of an "angel of light", do you think he can fool people into believing he is Jesus? If satan is in "disguise" and is a clever con artist, do you think that is possible?

I know the difference between satan and Jesus. lol
I've had enough experience with both to know the difference. I also believe that a mind that is covered by the blood of Jesus is not going to be deceived by satan. We have been given the mind of Christ.

Do you believe Jesus brings people back from the dead? If so, do you believe the scripture that says to be absent from the body we are present with Christ? If we are present with Christ, do you think once raised from the dead, we would suddenly get amnesia that we'd been with Christ?

 

[kcnalp]

There is a branch of "Christianity" that strongly trusts in appearances of a woman. I think it's an "angel of light".

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Near-Death Experiences seem to be increasingly popular among Americans and other nations. Basically, someone has a close encounter with death -- or is clinically dead, but they are able to revitalize and revive themselves after an otherworldly experience, often with deceased relatives or religious figures, such as Jesus Christ or Mother Mary.

When I was younger, in high school, I read some of these experiences, but I haven't for a while now - although I still remember some of these accounts, and I sometimes wonder, whether they do contain a deeper reality that someone people underestimate.

For example, Howard Storm was an avowed atheist and professor who had a very negative experience in another dark realm, but was saved after calling out to Jesus, and had a review of his life, and his mistakes and failures. He transformed himself into an entirely new person and a better husband and a much more deeply religious man, even becoming a Christian pastor for years afterwards.

His book actually inspired me a lot when I was younger, and perhaps millions of others also, it was very popular at one point, actually, in the United States.

https://www.amazon.com/My-Descent-Into-Death-Second-ebook/dp/B000FCJZKO/

But what do most people here think of them? I know obviously some Christians argue that they should not be trusted, they are likely a hallucination or perhaps a deception of some kind. But are some of them, like Howard Storm's account at least, possibly valid?

One name comes to mind. Ian McCormack was a member and later a pastor in our congregation here back in the '80s & early '90s. He repeated his story ad nauseum in small groups, large groups, radio, TV, and eventually video and movie, giving rise to the fame he enjoys today. I saw the box jellyfish scar on his arm.

Ian McCormack Movie - Bing video

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you believe Jesus brings people back from the dead? If so, do you believe the scripture that says to be absent from the body we are present with Christ? If we are present with Christ, do you think once raised from the dead, we would suddenly get amnesia that we'd been with Christ?

Since I have a completely different understanding of that scripture, I would have to give you a completely different answer.

You see, I do not believe that all Christians are going to heaven. I don't believe that the scriptures tell us that.
There are the "elect" (chosen ones, or Holy Ones) and there are those who are not chosen ones....still faithful Christians but not heaven bound.

Colossians 1:1-4...opens with the words...."Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy our brother, 2 to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·losʹsae:. . . .
"We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the holy ones."

So we can see here the "holy ones" are mentioned separately to the "faithful brothers in union with Christ".....so only some Christians are chosen to be "saints" or "holy ones"....but not all. Those chosen for heaven have a specific role to play as "kings and priests" (Revelation 20:6) and as such they will need subjects and those who need them to perform their priestly duties.

I see from the Revelation ch 7 that there are two separate groups who are granted salvation, but are also given different assignments....one in heaven and the other on earth.

Angels are told...."Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel".
So there are a specific number ordained by God and "sealed" for a specific purpose....a first group....all "Israelites".

Revelation 14 mentions them again and places them in heaven with the Lamb....
"Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads." and it says of these ones that they...."had been redeemed from the earth". . . . ."redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless."
So these are the elect...the chosen ones who are "resurrected first" to rule with Jesus in his Kingdom. (Revelation 20:6)

It then goes on to say....Rev 7:9-10....
"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
So now there is another group, which no man was able to number out of all the nations on earth.

Vs 13-14 identify them...
"Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” 14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
So these ones are saved too, covered by the blood of Christ, but they are said to "come out of the great tribulation" which occurs on earth as a prelude to the end of the present system of things.

I see one group in heaven with the Lamb, and the other group on earth as survivors of that traumatic end to satan's rulership of the world. These, I believe will form the nucleus of the "new earth" ruled over by the "new heavens" that Peter spoke about. (2 Peter 3:13)
Joining them will be those who come back in the general, or second resurrection that Jesus spoke about. (John 5:28-29) Those who go to heaven are resurrected first, and those who will be their subjects are resurrected later.

So as I am not of the elect, I do not expect to have such an experience, but I have no doubt that the elect will.
My belief is that being "born again" is not something that happens in this life....it happens after the chosen one has given up their fleshly body and are "born again" as spirit creatures in order to exist in the heavenly realm. It is a new birth as a completely new creature.

I have a very different take on the whole "going to heaven" thing because it makes no sense to me that God would put us here on earth only to train us for life in heaven.....God already had a large spiritual family in heaven before he created the physical universe. None of them needed training on earth in order to live there.

I therefore see this earth as a new project for God...a new creative venture where creatures with God's attributes would become caretakers of a planet gifted to them by their Creator. He offered them everlasting life on the condition of their obedience.

What a wonderful job! Taking care of all the other creatures and making this whole planet like the garden of Eden.....aren't we drawn to that prospect? Wouldn't you like to live there?
I believe that God created us to enjoy living in such a place forever, but some mistake that for a desire to go to heaven. But going to heaven means leaving this earth, yet everlasting life in a restored paradise on earth is in keeping with God's first purpose.....one he never abandoned. (Isaiah 55:11)
That is how I see it.....

 

[Deborah_]

I'm sceptical of "near death experiences" because my mother used to have them every time she had an anaesthetic at the dentist's (back in the Thirties). She found them highly unpleasant because she wasn't 'near death' at the time - it was just the effect that the anaesthetic had on her brain.
Most NDEs follow a highly predictable pattern: a sensation of travelling down a tunnel, a bright light, a sensation of peace, meeting somebody. Or of floating above your physical body and looking down on it (which was what my Mum experienced). Then you interpret these sensations (usually) according to your prior beliefs. So Protestants will say that they met with Jesus, but Catholics usually meet Mary, Muslims meet Mohammed, etc, etc. Very few people change their beliefs after having an NDE, which I think is strange if they really do come face to face with God.
But having said that, there are some exceptions, and I'm sure that some NDEs are genuine.