Cooper
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Does 10 Commandments Requires Stoning?
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Apparently, not your charity. If I was wrong about your stance as Judaism being of the devil you can correct me. Just seems like that was what you were saying.
There are Christians living in willful sin and so that does not make Christianity or the Good News as of the devil, right? Just saying.
Cooper
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Lifelong_sinner
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in that case, lets clarify what you are saying.
“Those who continue to live in sin by sowing to the works of the flesh without resisting, will be left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation in becoming vessels unto dishonor in his House.”
Romans 8:9 says this is wrong.
you said “Those who continue to live in sin by sowing to the works of the flesh without resisting, will be left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven.”
1 john 3:8 says this is wrong.
you are indeed wrong.
Are you agreeing with Cooper that the devil created Judaism?
In context;
Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
So that means those in Christ Jesus who do walk after the flesh, there will be condemnation as they will be held accountable since Christ had set us free from the law of sin & death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Underlined word "might be" as sating now that we have been set free, we are not to walk after the flesh but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
There you go. Proof above that saved believers that mind the things of the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
This is signifying the difference between a believer and an unbeliever for why believers are being exhorted not to live after the fesh that Jesus has set us free from.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
This is not doubting the believer is saved, but exhorting why sin has no dominion over our lives any more unless we let it by living after the flesh.
If you doubt this to be true then pay attention to the next verse.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
That is Paul testifying to the consequence to believers if they live after the flesh. If that could never happen to a saved believer, then there would be no need to say that.
No. 1 John 3:8 is testifying to what Jesus Christ can do for us, to destroy the works of the devil in our lives so sin has no more dominion over us.
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
You just need His help to keep applying your hope in Him daily that He will lead you away from temptation, and deliver you from the evil one.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
theres that nonsense again. I dont know how much more clearer i can make it. If you walk in the flesh, you are not saved! There is no such thing as saved yet walking in the flesh.
Why warn believers that they can reap corruption then?
Why would God destroy the temple of God which is their physical bodies that has been defiled by the believers unless they are saved?
Read this about how saved believers had sown to the works of the flesh and had reaped corruption to such a point that they were overcome.
2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Then think of the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living and see why he is still son for why those saints left behind are still saved.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
so i assume you dont believe in OSAS?? Because if you did, you would know that a person cant lose salvation if they actually had it to begin with.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Does 10 Commandments Requires Stoning?
It did at one time. Now it just requires confession and repentance. Punishment of sin has always been about more than just punishing the human individual.
One thing most Christians aren't taught, and never consider, is that sin and disobedience are inseparably intertwined with evil; with the devil and his armies who wage war against God in every way imaginable.
When God commanded the Israelites to stone someone to death, it was as a lesson to Israel, a purging of evil from their ranks, as well as a spiritual punishment of the demons involved. No, you don't have to be fully possessed to be influenced by demons, and yes, a Christian can absolutely be influenced by demons; and we are every single day.
Stones have symbolized holiness and purity since long before the Stone Tablet 10 Commandments. Jesus is referred to as the Rock, a Stone of Stumbling to the sinner, and those who will receive salvation are referred to as Precious Stones.
By stoning a sinner in ancient times, it was an offense and a painful punishment to the demons involved.
Jesus (God) is always speaking of, and doing, things that have a deeper spiritual meaning and purpose.
When Jesus exorcised the many demons from the two demon-possessed men living among the tombs, He allowed them to enter an entire herd of pigs, then made them run off a cliff to drown in the sea to punish them with water. Another element that is considered holy and untenable to the demonic. It is the element that God used to punish the antediluvian giants.
Matthew 8:28-34
"The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him (that has sinned) to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put (purge) the evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 17:7
This also shines a light upon God's purpose for commanding Israel to destroy every living thing within the cities of their enemies, without mercy. He was sending them to destroy demonically infested people and animals. Everything God does has a very important purpose.
"... of the cities of these people, which the Lord ... give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: ... thou shalt utterly destroy them; ... that they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their (demon) gods; so should you sin against the Lord your God."
Deuteronomy 20:16-18
It did at one time. Now it just requires confession and repentance. Punishment of sin has always been about more than just punishing the human individual.
One thing most Christians aren't taught, and never consider, is that sin and disobedience are inseparably intertwined with evil; with the devil and his armies who wage war against God in every way imaginable.
When God commanded the Israelites to stone someone to death, it was as a lesson to Israel, a purging of evil from their ranks, as well as a spiritual punishment of the demons involved. No, you don't have to be fully possessed to be influenced by demons, and yes, a Christian can absolutely be influenced by demons; and we are every single day.
Stones have symbolized holiness and purity since long before the Stone Tablet 10 Commandments. Jesus is referred to as the Rock, a Stone of Stumbling to the sinner, and those who will receive salvation are referred to as Precious Stones.
By stoning a sinner in ancient times, it was an offense and a painful punishment to the demons involved.
Jesus (God) is always speaking of, and doing, things that have a deeper spiritual meaning and purpose.
When Jesus exorcised the many demons from the two demon-possessed men living among the tombs, He allowed them to enter an entire herd of pigs, then made them run off a cliff to drown in the sea to punish them with water. Another element that is considered holy and untenable to the demonic. It is the element that God used to punish the antediluvian giants.
Matthew 8:28-34
"The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him (that has sinned) to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put (purge) the evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 17:7
This also shines a light upon God's purpose for commanding Israel to destroy every living thing within the cities of their enemies, without mercy. He was sending them to destroy demonically infested people and animals. Everything God does has a very important purpose.
"... of the cities of these people, which the Lord ... give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: ... thou shalt utterly destroy them; ... that they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their (demon) gods; so should you sin against the Lord your God."
Deuteronomy 20:16-18
I believe in OSAS for why those unrepentant carnal believers and former believes left behind are still saved. They were not ready nor willing to go when the Bridegroom had come but that foundation is sure as well as that seal of adoption because He is not going anywhere for why He will finish His work in those left behind. That is why Jesus is warning saved believers or be ready or else. Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
As I stated, please don't speak for me.
Only when misunderstanding John and the work on the cross.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
then yes, that is where you are wrong. OSAS, also known as perseverance of the saints, states that once saved, forever will you remain the Lord’s.
So lets say little johnny gets saved at age 12, then as he grows up, little johnny starts doing things like premarital sex, alcohol, and other bad stuff. Then fast forward 30 yrs, johnny says to himself, i need to get BACK into living for God. Then johnny goes back to church and starts to live rightly. Was johnny actually saved at age 12?? His past would indicate no. He was never saved to begin with.
Hope this helps…
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
I don't believe in sinless perfection; even as we rest by faith in the finished work of Christ at the Cross for sinners, we still have a spiritual conflict (Ephesians 6), without and within.
It didn't help.
Former believers are still saved because even though they deny Him, He will deny them at the rapture, but yet He still abides. in those left behind.
2 Timothy 2:1 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Paul gave an example of a former believer below and yet he stated "nevertheless" meaning he is still saved but called to depart from iniquity if he wants to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven or risk being left behind as a castaway for how he will become a vessel unto dishonor in His House.
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Those are the scriptures testifying to former believers are still saved even when left behind as they will become vessels of wood & earth in His House.
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
Judaism was(and still is) of the devil because it was not based on God's laws. It was based on the Pharisees' interpretation of the Law. The NT shows there was a stark difference between the OT religion and the Pharisees' religion, especially in Mark and John where Jesus outright accuses the Pharisees of rejecting Moses' writings.
Common sense says that since Jesus' accusations were true, no one should be confusing the religions as being the same. They are not. One religion was given straight from God, the other religion was invented by men who thought they had better standards than God.
There isn't a single passage in the Law where God required Gentiles to stay in the outer court of the temple complex, there isn't a single passage that said someone had to be physically circumcised to receive salvation, there isn't a passage requiring people to wash their hands in a ritualistic fashion before they eat something, and there isn't a single passage that says someone could have their sins absolved through ritual sacrifices.
Thank you for participating as it seems Cooper has gone off and placed me on ignore.
I wish to point out that Jesus validated the scripture.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Jesus also said that scriptures testified of Him and that Moses had written of Him too.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life....
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Jesus Is Jehovah
So when Jesus said this;
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
That is not inferring the scripture in the O.T. that teaches Judaism is of the devil. Just because the Pharisees has added with their man made traditions, that doesn't make Judaism theirs any more than Catholics has made Christianity theirs.
There has to be a distinction between the Pharisees and Judaism since as you say, the Pharisees were rejecting Moses's writings. Otherwise what would you call what the Jews follow under the Old Covenant other than Judaism?
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