Does 10 Commandments Requires Stoning?

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GEN2REV

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then yes, that is where you are wrong. OSAS, also known as perseverance of the saints, states that once saved, forever will you remain the Lord’s.
So lets say little johnny gets saved at age 12, then as he grows up, little johnny starts doing things like premarital sex, alcohol, and other bad stuff. Then fast forward 30 yrs, johnny says to himself, i need to get BACK into living for God. Then johnny goes back to church and starts to live rightly. Was johnny actually saved at age 12?? His past would indicate no. He was never saved to begin with.
Hope this helps…
If you're not offended, please explain your situation.

I understand you're Calvinist and OSAS from many posts, but I also understand that you don't believe you are saved due to regular, habitual sin that you say you can't seem to get free of.

So, do you believe you are 'Once Saved Always Saved' after you straighten things out at some later date? Or do you believe you will be saved despite your sin or how is it that you understand that scenario?

Sincere question, just curious.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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It didn't help.

Former believers are still saved because even though they deny Him, He will deny them at the rapture, but yet He still abides. in those left behind.

2 Timothy 2:1 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Paul gave an example of a former believer below and yet he stated "nevertheless" meaning he is still saved but called to depart from iniquity if he wants to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven or risk being left behind as a castaway for how he will become a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Those are the scriptures testifying to former believers are still saved even when left behind as they will become vessels of wood & earth in His House.

Im not sure what else i can do to explain OSAS to you. If a person claims to be saved now, yet 20 yrs later changes his mind, he was never saved to begin with and only deceived himself.
 

Christ4Me

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Im not sure what else i can do to explain OSAS to you. If a person claims to be saved now, yet 20 yrs later changes his mind, he was never saved to begin with and only deceived himself.

You have no scripture for that, brother.

I just showed you scripture for why a former believer are still saved. Even saints disqualified in being left behind are still saved.

That is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name.
 

GEN2REV

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Im not sure what else i can do to explain OSAS to you. If a person claims to be saved now, yet 20 yrs later changes his mind, he was never saved to begin with and only deceived himself.
How does that follow your own claimed beliefs, though?

You have stated many times that you do not believe you are saved and that you sin every day without the slightest conviction inside from the Holy Spirit.

How does that work?
 

Lifelong_sinner

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If you're not offended, please explain your situation.

I understand you're Calvinist and OSAS from many posts, but I also understand that you don't believe you are saved due to regular, habitual sin that you say you can't seem to get free of.

So, do you believe you are 'Once Saved Always Saved' after you straighten things out at some later date? Or do you believe you will be saved despite your sin or how is it that you understand that scenario?

Sincere question, just curious.

Good question. In my case, if i were to be regenerated, that would lead to me no longer living in willful sinning. The fact that im not saved now does not mean that i cant be later on. It just depends on 1. Am i of the elect? And 2. If i am of the elect, when will God call me to salvation??
Everything happens according to His will, including the timing of your salvation.
 

GEN2REV

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You have no scripture for that, brother.

I just showed you scripture for why a former believer are still saved. Even saints disqualified in being left behind are still saved.

That is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name.
Where do you get the idea vessels unto dishonor are saved?
 

Christ4Me

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Good question. In my case, if i were to be regenerated, that would lead to me no longer living in willful sinning. The fact that im not saved now does not mean that i cant be later on. It just depends on 1. Am i of the elect? And 2. If i am of the elect, when will God call me to salvation??
Everything happens according to His will, including the timing of your salvation.

Can you explain this trial you are undergoing for why you claim you cannot stop sinning?
 

GEN2REV

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Good question. In my case, if i were to be regenerated, that would lead to me no longer living in willful sinning. The fact that im not saved now does not mean that i cant be later on. It just depends on 1. Am i of the elect? And 2. If i am of the elect, when will God call me to salvation??
Everything happens according to His will, including the timing of your salvation.
Interesting.

Ok.
 

Christ4Me

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Where do you get the idea vessels unto dishonor are saved?

Paul gives an example of a former believer but written "nevertheless" that foundation is sure as that seal of adoption is, for why former believers are still to be called to depart from iniquity or else He will deny them, they get left behind, but He still abides in them for why they shall become vessels unto dishonor in His House because there are vessels of wood & earth also in that great house.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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You have no scripture for that, brother.

I just showed you scripture for why a former believer are still saved. Even saints disqualified in being left behind are still saved.

That is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name.

no scripture for OSAS???
Is once saved, always saved biblical? | GotQuestions.org
 

Christ4Me

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You never read them. One more time.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rejoice in your salvation by believing in Him that you are saved. Then ask Him that you have a hard time following Him, and you may find yourself like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide for why you would doubt your own sincerity as I did, but you can ask Him to help you to follow Him & He will.

By the grace of God 7 His help, I am following Him. He has saved this dog from his vomit and is keeping me from returning to my vomit daily. I'll pray He will do the same for you, brother.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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How does that follow your own claimed beliefs, though?

You have stated many times that you do not believe you are saved and that you sin every day without the slightest conviction inside from the Holy Spirit.

How does that work?

Do you think the Holy Spirit can fail? Is He not perfect, holy? If a person has been regenerated, it is because of the Holy Spirit, do you think He’s going to put effort into sanctifying you only to fail??

this is where we see fruits of salvation come into play. If you are regenerated, and continually sin less and less until death, that is the sign that you are saved. If a person shows change, but it falls off, that is the sign that the person was doing the work and not the Holy Spirit. That is why failure happens.
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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You never read them. One more time.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rejoice in your salvation by believing in Him that you are saved. Then ask Him that you have a hard time following Him, and you may find yourself like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide for why you would doubt your own sincerity as I did, but you can ask Him to help you to follow Him & He will.

By the grace of God 7 His help, I am following Him. He has saved this dog from his vomit and is keeping me from returning to my vomit daily. I'll pray He will do the same for you, brother.

im just curious, do you believe that everyone is saved, AKA universalism??
 

Christ4Me

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im just curious, do you believe that everyone is saved, AKA universalism??

No. Unbelievers are those sinners that never had believed in Him and they are not saved.

Former believers are still saved because He still abide sin them.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

But they are called to depart from iniquity looking to Him for help to see the lie that turned them away from Him and have the joy of their salvation restored.

Same goes for carnal believers such as yourself that needs to look to Him for help in destroying the work of the devil in your life in delivering you from your sins, and the best way to do that is by reading His words in scripture daily.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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No. Unbelievers are those sinners that never had believed in Him and they are not saved.

Former believers are still saved because He still abide sin them.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

But they are called to depart from iniquity looking to Him for help to see the lie that turned them away from Him and have the joy of their salvation restored.

Same goes for carnal believers such as yourself that needs to look to Him for help in destroying the work of the devil in your life in delivering you from your sins, and the best way to do that is by reading His words in scripture daily.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

So when you say a former believer, are we talking about people who at one time professed to believe, but then later said they didnt??

also, there is NO such thing as a carnal christian.
 

Christ4Me

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So when you say a former believer, are we talking about people who at one time professed to believe, but then later said they didnt??

Correct. Due to a lie as Paul gave an example in 2 Timothy 2:18 and we can add how many Christians became unbelievers due to the lie of the evolution theory, "nevertheless" begins verse 19 about how that foundation is sure as that seal of adoption is for why even former believers are to depart from iniquity so they can be accepted by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House in 2 Timothy 2:19-21

If they do not look to Him for help to depart from iniquity, they get disqualified & thus denied by Him, but even though left behind, He still abides in them for why they are still saved but "damned" in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, but still in that great house.

also, there is NO such thing as a carnal christian.

New believers can be seen as babes in Christ and thus carnal still.

1 Corinthians 3:1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Your signature, done in humor, but when taken to be serious, also shows how one is carnal by identifying as a Calvinist.

We are not to be identified as disciples of John Calvin but disciples of Jesus Christ. There are many believers being carnal identifying themselves as a Calvinist and yet in spite of being carnal, they are still considered babes in Christ; hence saved.

Course there are different degrees of being carnal by which one can reap corruption & defile the temple of God that is our physical bodies, but there is such a thing as a carnal Christian and they are saved, but not following Him as His disciples in one form of carnality or another.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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Correct. Due to a lie as Paul gave an example in 2 Timothy 2:18 and we can add how many Christians became unbelievers due to the lie of the evolution theory, "nevertheless" begins verse 19 about how that foundation is sure as that seal of adoption is for why even former believers are to depart from iniquity so they can be accepted by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House in 2 Timothy 2:19-21

If they do not look to Him for help to depart from iniquity, they get disqualified & thus denied by Him, but even though left behind, He still abides in them for why they are still saved but "damned" in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, but still in that great house.



New believers can be seen as babes in Christ and thus carnal still.

1 Corinthians 3:1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Your signature, done in humor, but when taken to be serious, also shows how one is carnal by identifying as a Calvinist.

We are not to be identified as disciples of John Calvin but disciples of Jesus Christ. There are many believers being carnal identifying themselves as a Calvinist and yet in spite of being carnal, they are still considered babes in Christ; hence saved.

Course there are different degrees of being carnal by which one can reap corruption & defile the temple of God that is our physical bodies, but there is such a thing as a carnal Christian and they are saved, but not following Him as His disciples in one form of carnality or another.

yea, none of that is correct. But im wasting time talking to you.
 

Cassandra

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If i am of the elect, when will God call me to salvation??
Everything happens according to His will, including the timing of your salvation.
Sorry if i am not understanding this, but this is what i hate about OSAS. We are to learn about Christ and his redemption, but if we are using the excuse that "God hasn't got around to me yet", well, that is just an excuse. I don't think that will get you a free pass on judgement day.
Salvation has always been there--you just have to ask for it.
Waiting for Him to get to you is a false way to think. The choice is yours, not His. He offers to you the opportunity for salvation, but it is up to you to accept.
Nobody is better than anyone else, and for folk to think they are elect is just , well, why would you care? Shouldn't you love the Lord and serve Him just because He is who He is? Who cares if you are elect, if you are walking in the light you have?
 

Christ4Me

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yea, none of that is correct. But im wasting time talking to you.

Sorry if i am not understanding this, but this is what i hate about OSAS.

The unbelievers are condemned already.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The saved believer will be judged by what they built on that foundation and any works of the flesh be on it that defiles the temple of God, if they do not look to Him for help in departing from iniquity, then by that iniquity that denies Him, He will deny them, but he will finish His work in those left behind in burning off of that foundation all that offends so they will be partakers of His holiness, their physical bodies destroyed but their spirits is with the Lord still.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This unrepentant church will be judged by their works with death when cast, as in left behind, into the coming great tribulation.


Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

In spite of being denied by Him to attend the marriage Supper in Heaven, He still abides for why their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven after they die when left behind.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


So let that terror be on the conscience of saved believers that they best look to Jesus Christ for help in laying aside every weight &sin daily thus walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son in abiding in Him & His words to be ready to go and willing to go when He comes as the Bridegroom or else be left behind as saved, but denied being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection for not being ready at the rapture event.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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Sorry if i am not understanding this, but this is what i hate about OSAS. We are to learn about Christ and his redemption, but if we are using the excuse that "God hasn't got around to me yet", well, that is just an excuse. I don't think that will get you a free pass on judgement day.
Salvation has always been there--you just have to ask for it.
Waiting for Him to get to you is a false way to think. The choice is yours, not His. He offers to you the opportunity for salvation, but it is up to you to accept.
Nobody is better than anyone else, and for folk to think they are elect is just , well, why would you care? Shouldn't you love the Lord and serve Him just because He is who He is? Who cares if you are elect, if you are walking in the light you have?

you are correct, anyone not of the elect will not get a free pass of their sins. If i died right now, i would goto hell.
Your thinking that its our choice is wrong however. No one chooses God unless He has called them first. Paul said no one seeks God on their own. This is because of our fallen nature. We as individuals have nothing to do with our salvation. It is all up to the Trinity. God calls, Jesus’ atonement, and the Holy Spirits sanctification process.

as far as saying no one is better than others, that is how we are to see things, but you think abraham or paul arent seen as better than us by God? Also, if we are walking in the light, then we are of the elect. Good trees dont produce bad fruit. Bad trees dont produce good fruit.